Summertime Chords

[Cristhyano]

I need a help with Summertime.

I'm using the Aebersold track (Maiden Voyage) and the progression goes like this:



I'm using barre chords for Dm7 (5th string), Gm7 (5th string) and C7 (6th string), the other chords are:

I'll now write chords like this
EADGBe

For Em7b5 i'm using:
x7878x

A7alt:
xx5665

Fmaj7:
x8'10'9'10'x

I'm doing it correctly? Because sometimes i become lost on the backing track, i can't hear the chords going well with the bass and piano. Maybe because i'm not too familiar with jazz, i don't know.
I want to use moveable chords only so i can transpose.

[pingu]

That looks good ......

post your other chords in that format too

[Cristhyano]

The other ones are barre chords.

Dm7:
x57565x

Gm7:
x'10'12'10'11'10'x

C7:
8'10'8988

[mr. beaumont]

Tr the Gm7 in a lower position too, like 3x333x


Generally, I treat the 6th and 5th strings as "bass" strings, and I rarely include both of them in the same chord.

So that C7 might look more like: 8x898x


I like the string set 6 + 4 3 2. So I might make that A7alt look like this 5x566x so the bottom doesn't fall out.

When playing with a bassist, I lay off the sixth string almost entirely, and use the fifth string very sparingly.

Ideally, you'll want more than one location to play all these chords. You'll also want to keep your voicings close together to facilitate voice leading...as you progress, you'll see that a chart for a tune is a suggestion as well...four bars of Dm7 does not necessarily mean four bars of Dm7...there's lots of clusters of notes that are available to you in that environment.

[Cristhyano]

Wow, thanks for the tips. I'll work on that when i get home.

four bars of Dm7 does not necessarily mean four bars of Dm7...there's lots of clusters of notes that are available to you in that environment.

Can you explain this for me? With some examples perhaps.
What would you do?

[mr. beaumont]

That's a pretty advanced topic--I'd wait a bit--I probably shouldn't have blabbed on about it...but basically, multiple bars of a chord establishes a "harmonic environment," as I call 'em...here your environment is D minor...which means, yeah, Dm7 is cool...D minor 9 or 11 might work...maybe a Dm/maj7...if I treat the feel as D minor in general, I can approach that chord with moves that get me to a D minor (the second bar could easily be a ii V--Em7b5 to A7alt) --that's just one example...

Voice leading is the key to those smooth jazz chord moves (the moves are smooth, not the jazz) The general idea is to have stepwise movement (whole or half steps) inside the chords you're playing...a very generic but useful example is this ii V I in Cmaj--

Dm9: x5355x

G7b13: 3x344x

Cmaj9: x3243x

See how that top note moves down from an E to an Eb to a D? That's voice leading.

Keeping common voices between chords also sounds good...take that same example--a ii V I in Cmaj

Dm9: x5355x

G13: 3x345x

Cmaj7: x3545x


See how that voice on top stays the same?


There's ways to do this in "Summertime," as well, but it works better if you juice up the chord progression a bit, which isn't probably the road you should go down yet. A very good thing to practice at this point would be to keep your chords on similar string sets...this way the top note stays on the same string and you can clearly hear how it moves from chord to chord. Try finding all the chords to summertime and play them just on the top four strings, for example.

[JohnRoss]

...i can't hear the chords going well with the bass and piano.

Those are very simplified chords for Summertime. They'll let you play the melody, but you're missing a lot of the harmony. Especially, on those 4-bar Dm sections, the conventional chord sequence would be more like this:

Dm6 / Em7/B / | Fmj7/6 / Em7/B / | Dm6 / Em7/B / | Fmj7/6 / Em7/B / |

It's really almost essential to play those B naturals in the bass on the Em chords (if you like, you can play a C in the bass on those Fmj7/6 chords, as well, but that's more effective if you only do it occasionally). The really important thing here is that the Em7 has a very emphatic B natural (the one in the Dm6 could be just ornamental), which conditions the scale, D Dorian. It's one of the reasons Summertime can't really be considered a blues, though it does have a bluesy feel, of course.

There's more to the harmony, this is Gershwin after all, especially on the A7 where there's some running circles with a dim and an aug, but it's less important. Anyway, I suggest you look out some better chords.

[Tommycorsica]

If i may, what you've described, Christhyano, is a pop music approach to the song --and that is fine, especially if you like to sing it, too. But it's not a jazz approach. A jazz musician looks at that first four bars of Dm7 and thinks of ways to make it more interesting, more hip. I assume your Aerbersold backing track has Jamie comping on piano/organ?? Just listen to him, he's not just sitting on the Dm7. He's inverting the chord, superimposing other chords over it, and using other rhythmic, harmonic and melodic devices to push the song forward over what otherwise would be a static Dm7 sound. It's why it sounds fresh and maybe one reason you're having trouble following the backing track - Jamie's masking and smoothing out the changes rather than hitting you over the head with them.
At this point, i recommend you find a good teacher who can help you to get the inversions, extensions, superimpostions and substitutions under your control -- assuming you want to play jazz rather than pop. Books would also work, but a good teacher will motivate you and answer all your questions - and you'll have a million questions.
Certianly, if you like the sound you're getting now, then by all means carry on.

[Cristhyano]

A very good thing to practice at this point would be to keep your chords on similar string sets...this way the top note stays on the same string and you can clearly hear how it moves from chord to chord. Try finding all the chords to summertime and play them just on the top four strings, for example.

I understand it now, thanks for the explanations.
I'll practice what you suggested.

If i may, what you've described, Christhyano, is a pop music approach to the song --and that is fine, especially if you like to sing it, too. But it's not a jazz approach. A jazz musician looks at that first four bars of Dm7 and thinks of ways to make it more interesting, more hip. I assume your Aerbersold backing track has Jamie comping on piano/organ?? Just listen to him, he's not just sitting on the Dm7. He's inverting the chord, superimposing other chords over it, and using other rhythmic, harmonic and melodic devices to push the song forward over what otherwise would be a static Dm7 sound. It's why it sounds fresh and maybe one reason you're having trouble following the backing track - Jamie's masking and smoothing out the changes rather than hitting you over the head with them.
At this point, i recommend you find a good teacher who can help you to get the inversions, extensions, superimpostions and substitutions under your control -- assuming you want to play jazz rather than pop. Books would also work, but a good teacher will motivate you and answer all your questions - and you'll have a million questions.
Certianly, if you like the sound you're getting now, then by all means carry on.

I don't like the sounds i'm getting now. The progression Em7b5 > A7alt > Dm7 is the best one for me, i really liked it, but not the rest.
As you said, Jamie plays a lot of different things on the Dm7 sequence, that's the reason i'm lost. And no, i don't want the pop approach, but i don't have a good jazz teacher in my town. In fact i have a self-taught bossa nova/mpb teacher who played with my dad for years, he's a really awesome player, but people said he is not a very good teacher. So i'm stuck with books for now.
But the help i'm getting here is awesome, i never had that kind of feedback in other forums. I'll practice and try all the approaches mentioned here.
Really thanks for all your support.

[Sean65]

Tr the Gm7 in a lower position too, like 3x333x


Generally, I treat the 6th and 5th strings as "bass" strings, and I rarely include both of them in the same chord.

So that C7 might look more like: 8x898x


I like the string set 6 + 4 3 2. So I might make that A7alt look like this 5x566x so the bottom doesn't fall out.

When playing with a bassist, I lay off the sixth string almost entirely, and use the fifth string very sparingly.

Ideally, you'll want more than one location to play all these chords. You'll also want to keep your voicings close together to facilitate voice leading...as you progress, you'll see that a chart for a tune is a suggestion as well...four bars of Dm7 does not necessarily mean four bars of Dm7...there's lots of clusters of notes that are available to you in that environment.

I like your well explained logic, that's quite insightful. Thanks man.

[Tommycorsica]

Yep. You're at the right place if you wanna play jazz. When i first started to learn jazz standards, I thougth it was just like rock - you simply play the chords as written and then shred the improv with a scale or two that fits over the whole song - I thought, surely there's a secret jazz scale that gives you all those George Benson sounds. Of course, there is no secret scale, there is only The Woodshed.

Beware the Aebersolds: They are excellent if you're already proficient (I have several of them), but since the meter and voicings are fixed, it's nearly impossible to properly isolate specific areas to work on and so often you end up playing the same licks over the same changes because the chords come by and you're just trying to keep up, rather than really explore the possibilities. This makes it hard to "own" new sounds with your brain/ear/fingers.

Don't give up on finding a good teacher, call music stores and college/high school music departments, if not in your town, maybe the next town or a few towns over. Heck, Matt Warnock will give you lessons from Brazil via Skype - and he's really good.

[mr. beaumont]

I also like "Band in a box" for isolating sections of tunes and working through them OVER and OVER...

[Tommycorsica]

Agreed on Band in Box. My new girlfriend is iRealB - 1200 jazz standards, all of them in any key, any tempo, any voicing, any arrangement, and infinite looping.
(Not really Jamie Aebersold's fault that his play-alongs are limited by the technology - he was the among the first and the only game in town for a long time. Hal Leonard, too.)

[Cristhyano]

I don't own BIAB and can't use it because i use linux. But i'll keep trying to find a really good teacher.

[randalljazz]

this will take you far:



Amazon.com: Maiden Voyage Guitar Voicings: Mike Di Liddo: Books

[smp]

this will take you far:



Amazon.com: Maiden Voyage Guitar Voicings: Mike Di Liddo: Books

I've been meaning to ask about that book. Is it a standalone book or is it intended to accompany the Maiden Voyage 54 book? Do you need both?

[randalljazz]

I've been meaning to ask about that book. Is it a standalone book or is it intended to accompany the Maiden Voyage 54 book? Do you need both?

it 'stands alone'--comes with cd. i s'pose you could play along with the original volume 54 if you wanted to, tho' i haven't tried it. it gives multiple choruses of practical comping.