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Hello! I'm not here to say that transcribing solos isn't valuable or that it's a waste of time. However, IMHO, transcribing melodies is both easier and more useful. In the time it takes to transcribe one solo, you could likely transcribe five song melodies or bebop heads. At the end of the day, these five songs will expand your repertoire and help you play more effectively with other musicians than learning one solo. I read somewhere that Charles McPherson agrees with this. What do you think?
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12-03-2024 08:07 AM
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Certainly wouldn’t argue.
I really like transcribing solos but I couldn’t argue with anything you say about transcribing melodies.
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As a guitarist, I probably learn the chords first. Then the Melody.
Originally Posted by rodolfoguitarra
Comping is our main job. IMHO.
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Frank Vignola said something to the effect of just learning as many standards as you can will give you tools you need for improvisation.
I know a lot of standards, but I'm obviously not there yet...
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As long as you're doing bebop heads too you'll get the language, if you only transcribe Great American Songbook melodies, you'll miss some of the jazz language. Speaking from experience, once I started learning Parker heads it was like "ooohhh, that's an enclosure, oh that's an approach note" and it's just because his heads are dense with them whereas a GAS tune might just have one of them in a very expected place, so you can miss it.
That's how it went for me anyway, you may be brighter.
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Gotsta know the melody to comp well. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Oh yes, of course! When I said "transcribe melodies," I assumed people would include the harmony as well (which I always do). Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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If you don't have a lead sheet for a tune, you'll have to transcribe the melody and chord changes first before you can get to the solo. So if you do have a lead sheet, or you're suspicious of it's accuracy, just ignore it and start form scratch.
Besides, the heads to some tunes are at least as complicated as the solos, e.g., this Sam Rivers tune I transcribed.
P.S. - For anyone interested, here is an audio clip of the above head from Scud (soloing is over the B section chord changes - E7sus, etc.)
Scud (head only) by Sam Rivers - Box.com
And here is the full album (Sizzle) it's on:
Last edited by Mick-7; 12-04-2024 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Links added
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I disagree. If you want to be efficient, transcribe single ideas that you will use whether melody, chord, or rhythm, and work them into your playing. You can read the tunes and save time.
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Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I don't see anything off base about my notion. You don't need to transcribe for hours a day, do you? You only need to do some of it, so put it towards picking up ideas that you need to sound authentic. Rather than transcribing a tune that is already known, won't add anything to your playing.. and getting it wrong.
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For what it’s worth, All the Things You Are is written out, but doesn’t give you any sense of how the melody is rendered rhythmically. For that, you’d have to go to the tune anyway. Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
I don't see anything off base about my notion. You don't need to transcribe for hours a day, do you? You only need to do some of it, so put it towards picking up ideas that you need to sound authentic. Rather than transcribing a tune that is already known, won't add anything to your playing.. and getting it wrong.
So it is with hundreds of others
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That's true. I was just going to come back and post that same thing that you can do further work on the tune for how it actually is played in recordings to be more specific than the sheet. Peter Martin did a class on that. Would post the pictures of his notes on moon river but apparently the forum won't allow that now.
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Reading can make you a better reader.
Transcribing can make you a better transcriber. And, I'd argue, has some benefit in training your ear.
My history was that I learned to depend on reading long before I ever heard of formal ear training. If I could do it all over again, I'd quit Middle School and go to full time, years long, ear training boot camp. The kind of place where they don't let you dust off the unused tuba cases until you can sight sing anything.
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You made a comment and one small part of your comment was questioned, then you defended the main part of your comment that was not questioned and didn't address or even acknowledge the small only part of your comment that was questioned. Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
That's some crazy good impressive skills; ever consider running for political office?
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I don't accept blame for discussions initiated with a tiny implication. The poster can explain themselves rationally first. Nice try tho.
Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 12-03-2024 at 09:27 PM.
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I did this back in January or February for a workshop I was teaching. It's the lead sheet melody for Bye Bye Blackbird on the top line, and the way Miles plays it on the bottom, so you can see the way he translates "four quarter notes" or whatever. Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
Nothing super special about this melody statement, except that he doesn't really add any notes to embellish until the very end, so it's really easy to see them one-to-one.
bye bye blackbird c.pdf - Google Drive
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What? Originally Posted by pauln
You made a comment and one small part of your comment was questioned, then you defended the main part of your comment that was not questioned and didn't address or even acknowledge the small only part of your comment that was questioned.
That's some crazy good impressive skills; ever consider running for political office?
I mean ... I think he answered it ish?
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That's cool. That is helpful tune transcribing. I suppose I do that where I transcribe a few differences between the recording and sheet without transcribing the whole tune.
The Peter Martin class was where he analyzed the harmony to the original Mercer and Mancini take of Moon River then used that to expand on. It was really cool.
Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 12-04-2024 at 01:01 AM.
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This is neat. Had something similar in an improv class first or 2nd year. Group listening Linda thing. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Yeah, I'm in the camp that you should transcribe chords, bass line and melody. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Bruce Forman too I believe. Originally Posted by rodolfoguitarra
I would say that you can learn to solo from melodies too.
There’s no rules really. But tunes are the basis for most jazz playing situations on one hand, and on the other there’s no requirement to transcribe a huge solo in entirety. A chorus, 16 bars, even a lick can be valuable.
It’s also fine to give up if it’s too hard. But do something else.
Transcribe the stuff that appeals to you and I think you will keep it up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Transcribe as much as and whatever you can. Melodies, chord progressions/voicings, solos. IMO it's all good and can only help. More is more!
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[QUOTE=Mick-7;1378489]If you don't have a lead sheet for a tune, you'll have to transcribe the melody and chord changes first before you can get to the solo. So if you do have a lead sheet, or you're suspicious of it's accuracy, just ignore it and start form scratch.
Besides, the heads to some tunes are at least as complicated as the solos, e.g., this Sam Rivers tune I transcribed.
[
/QUOTE]
Mick, great transcription you have some big ears, I've listened to this song many times!!
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Actually, I'm redoing all of my transcriptions. Many melodies in the Real Book have mistakes in certain notes and subdivisions. I also hate it when a tune has 3 bars in a single system instead of 4, like in Confirmation. Additionally, I attach the mp3 file to the transcription in Guitar Pro, which makes it so handy.
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