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Originally Posted by ragman1
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10-10-2024 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by joe2758
Usually one comes with the other
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
As I said before, the third note in the 3rd bar is a Bb (before the Eb), as is the second note in the 4th bar, the slowed down version confirms this. And the first chord in the 3rd bar is the tonic chord or it's IIIm sub, i.e., Bb(major) or Dm7 (> G7), not Bb7 (I7), so an Ab there would not be diatonic to the chords - just sayin'....
And Miles intonation is occasionally off, it's flat (I was gonna say "frequently" off but I'll be kind), so if you want to be too, play the Ab, etc.
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Originally Posted by PMB
May I ask how you did it?
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I used Lalal.ai for the separation, Transcribe to slow the track down and Audacity to clean up any noise where the rests are placed. I imagine that if had the kind of high-level technology that Peter Jackson and Giles Martin used for recent Beatles projects, it would have been possible to separate the trumpet from the sax.
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
Just to be sure, I went back to Transcribe and slowed it down even further to 20%. The Ab and C are clear as day and selecting 'note guesses' from the drop down menu gave the same result.
Regarding the non-diatonic nature of the Ab, I think we often hear what we expect rather what's actually there in these situations. As with Sonny Rollins, Parker's lines can have a Schenker-like sense of voice-leading over longer time spans that sometimes negates what's happening at any point in the harmonic context. Thomas Owens gives a great example of voice-leading in his 'Bebop' book where a descending chromatic sits inside a long improvised phrase by Parker over the tune 'The Closer'. Perhaps a similar principle is operating here?
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Btw, I forgot that YouTube has its own slow down function. Go to the wheel on the lower RH side of the clip I uploaded, select 0.25 from the Playback speed option and listen at 0.06".
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Originally Posted by PMB
Ab Eb D B G
which is 5 of the notes of the C harmonic, the next chord.
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Originally Posted by charlieparker
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Originally Posted by PMB
But was it this recording you slowed down or another one?
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
Both the master and the alternate takes have that same Ab in the sax and C in the trumpet. As mentioned earlier by charlieparker (forum poster not saxophonist!), Miles was most likely playing the part on the spot and the two takes were recorded closely together. He probably misheard Bird's line on the initial run through - it's hard to believe the split is intentional when just about everything else is in unison at the same pitch or octave apart from a few similar points in the bridge.
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Many thanks, Ab then, I've updated my notation to include the one note change.
Last edited by GuyBoden; 10-11-2024 at 07:55 AM.
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Not to jump ahead but bar 7 is a bit of a bear for me rhythmically.
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Originally Posted by charlieparker
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Shall we move on to measures 5-8?
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Yeah it’s Ab in the sax
I find it hard not to hear B lol
G7b9
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 10-11-2024 at 01:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
other than that EGREGIOUS Gb.
My god, guy, my god … F# please.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I changed it to F#, it still sounds the same.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
(I know why, because of the G... but still.... In the bridge there are two F#'s but they're over a D7. But also - in bar 2 there's a Gb. Answer THAT if you can!)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Also in general, we like to see different sounds on different lines. Practically speaking, if you keep going F F# F # then your brain has to interpret every bit of ink on the page rather than just seeing a pattern and going with it. You’re also constantly having to keep track of whether the rest of the Fs should be sharped or natural. And not to mention as an arranger, you’re wasting ink rewriting the “natural” sign, or courtesy accidentals in the following measures etc.
Notice there are no G naturals around the Gb, but lots of Fs. So making it an F# means they’d probably need a courtesy accidental later on.
Yes some of these guidelines conflict, so the goal is always neater and easier to interpret.
It’s not really a big deal in isolation, but if you’ve ever sat down and read a chart and been like “goddam this is weird to read” it’s almost certainly for this reason. In the past maybe beaming errors would’ve been in competition with weird accidentals, but most music notation programs auto correct beaming errors now. The accidentals are much more a judgement call and get sloppier.
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