The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Gibson L-5 Stereo Archtop Electric Sunburst, 1964 for sale at 12th fret in Toronto.

    This Gibson L-5 Stereo example was custom ordered and built in later 1964, and delivered to the customer in 1965. Stereo had been an option for some time, mostly found on the ES-345 and ES-355. ‘Stereo’ in this context means that each pickup can be routed to a separate input on one or two amplifiers or channel strips in a recording console. A standard ‘Insert’ type cable is required.
    The top of this Gibson L-5 Stereo is, as L-5’s always were, solid carved Spruce paired with a solid, carved Maple back, and Maple rims. The neck is Maple, with Ebony for the fingerboard. The bridge base is Rosewood, and in 1964 most builders still sourced Rosewood from Central and South America. The pickups are standard 1964 Patent Number pickups, with the decal visible on the bottom plate. The tuners are gold-plated Grover Imperial models with metal ‘Keystone’ buttons. The bridge is a standard ABR-1 with the original nylon saddles, and the tailpiece is the gold plated, engraved L-5 model.

    Price: $21,500.00 CAD

    https://www.12fret.com/instruments/g...sunburst-1964/

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  3. #2

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    Kinda pricey unless you're dead set on a Florentine. I wonder if it has the skinny neck width, I believe those started around '65.

  4. #3

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    It would also have a laminated back I think. Looks like it.
    Thanks John

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Kinda pricey unless you're dead set on a Florentine. I wonder if it has the skinny neck width, I believe those started around '65.
    The description of this guitar specifies it:
    Nut Width: 1.651in 41.93mm

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote61
    The description of this guitar specifies it:
    Nut Width: 1.651in 41.93mm
    The description misses the laminated back typically used by Gibson for the 1960s, Florentine versions of the L-5CES, Super 400CES, and Byrdland. Next time I visit the Fret, I'll check the nut width and neck size.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    The description misses the laminated back typically used by Gibson for the 1960s, Florentine versions of the L-5CES, Super 400CES, and Byrdland. Next time I visit the Fret, I'll check the nut width and neck size.
    Yup. And if you're falling in love with this, know that it's got materials specs that will ring red lights and sirens if you ever want to travel out of the US with it. See CITES regulations. That means this can potentially be confiscated for Brazilian rosewood construction materials-worst case scenario: That bridge could get your guitar taken away.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Yup. And if you're falling in love with this, know that it's got materials specs that will ring red lights and sirens if you ever want to travel out of the US with it. See CITES regulations. That means this can potentially be confiscated for Brazilian rosewood construction materials-worst case scenario: That bridge could get your guitar taken away.
    I spend penty of time at the Fret. That L-5CES is of no personal interest to me. I do like the Kalamazoo Award that they currently have - it's a fantastic acoustic archtop. But the neck, while really nice, is too small for me. I much prefer my Gibsellone Award.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 12-10-2022 at 11:39 PM.

  9. #8

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    And they're the standard Kluson Sealfasts not Imperials

  10. #9

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    That Gibsellone Award is a tough act to follow.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Yup. And if you're falling in love with this, know that it's got materials specs that will ring red lights and sirens if you ever want to travel out of the US with it. See CITES regulations. That means this can potentially be confiscated for Brazilian rosewood construction materials-worst case scenario: That bridge could get your guitar taken away.

    Are you sure, Jimmy? This guitar was made in 1964, long before CITES became a thing. It would be hardly right to punish the present owner at the border. I know ivory has that kind of exception. If you have a little god figure from India that was made a 100 years ago, you just sign some paper and they wave you through. Of course I may be wrong.

    Doug

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug B
    Are you sure, Jimmy? This guitar was made in 1964, long before CITES became a thing. It would be hardly right to punish the present owner at the border. I know ivory has that kind of exception. If you have a little god figure from India that was made a 100 years ago, you just sign some paper and they wave you through. Of course I may be wrong.

    Doug
    Just a matter of consideration, because even if it was built prior to the CITES regulations came into effect, at one point (I honestly don't know how they stand today), there had to be accompanied documentation as to origins, dates and provenance. I know this because as a builder, luthiers have heard horror stories from fellow builders in regards to instruments confiscated at the borders, some on the way to the Montreal guitar show in July.
    This has become a contentious topic with as many exceptions as anecdotes but the result is a high degree of caution when taking anything even remotely questionable anywhere near an international border.
    In short, customs officials are not authorities on vintage guitars. Their job is to watch for possible violations and the best protection an owner of any object constructed of forbidden wood is to have a battery of proper forms, historical documents and authorized paperwork.
    I didn't write CITES, I only know of reasons why one should be cautious when invoking any actions calling it into action. That description alone says Brazilian Rosewood in more or less explicit terms.
    I for one wouldn't want to take a 20 grand piece of Brazwood through customs as a test case.
    Call me paranoid...

  13. #12

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    What's the big deal, its not like its a vintage Martin w Brazilian back and sides or even an old Gibson or Epi w a Brazilian board. Get a new base or buy a vintage one in the states.
    Eazy peazy lemon squeezy....

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    What's the big deal, its not like its a vintage Martin or even an old Gibson or Epi w a Brazilian board. Get a new base or buy a vintage one in the states.
    Eazy peazy lemon squeezy....
    Very easy solution. Exactly.
    I was just pointing out an unforseen complication that could arise from a potential buyer not being aware of how unreasonable laws can adversely effect an encounter with unknowing customs authorities. Not my problem. Not your problem unless you buy it. But I like your solution.
    You are a man of excellent advice wintermoon. Thank you

  15. #14

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    To your point Jimmy I could certainly see an issue if a seller from one country didn't inform a buyer from another country and a little bridge base screwed the deal up. The Brazilian thing on such a small component is easily overlooked by many dealers as well as buyers, so worth pointing out.
    Nor quite the same thing but I bought a Gibson from Canada once and the shop didn't fill out the export forms and I got a $400 duty bill from UPS. The guitar was obviously made in the US so shouldn't have been subjected to tariff but if you don't fill out the forms..... I fought it but took a very long time.
    Yeah its easy to say get a new base but you need to make sure whats being shipped doesn't throw a monkey wrench in things.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug B
    Are you sure, Jimmy? This guitar was made in 1964, long before CITES became a thing. It would be hardly right to punish the present owner at the border. I know ivory has that kind of exception. If you have a little god figure from India that was made a 100 years ago, you just sign some paper and they wave you through. Of course I may be wrong.

    Doug
    In addition to the reply #11 from Jimmy, only instruments built before March 1947 are exempted from the ban because they will be treated as antiques.

  17. #16

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    I recall something about 20 years before some year as the period over which CITES is in backwards effect, presumably counted back from the date when CITES started to be applied.

    I would hope that Gibson could answer questions about this, possibly even provide paperwork.

    The practical question is of course whether a customs agent zealous enough to check for the presence of small bits of the wrong materials would be able or willing to believe you when you did change the base for one made of kosher rosewood.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    I recall something about 20 years before some year as the period over which CITES is in backwards effect, presumably counted back from the date when CITES started to be applied.
    I would hope that Gibson could answer questions about this, possibly even provide paperwork.
    The practical question is of course whether a customs agent zealous enough to check for the presence of small bits of the wrong materials would be able or willing to believe you when you did change the base for one made of kosher rosewood.
    Hope springs eternal.

    Most of Canada lives mere miles from the US border. As far as archtops go:

    Option A:
    -seller removes bridge and packs guitar with shallow and flexible material in bridge position, which is what should be done regardless of original bridge wood species. Original bridge packed up and placed in case pocket. Ship guitar via Canada Post / USPS with their paperwork filled out ("Used guitar, built in USA, made of wood, w/hardshell case."). No duty.

    Option B:
    -seller drives to USA, with guitar, for a lovely day.
    -seller visits courier storefront, removes bridge and packs guitar with shallow and flexible material in bridge position, which is what should be done regardless of original bridge wood species. Original bridge packed up and placed in case pocket. Seller ships guitar. No import/export paperwork required.
    -seller grabs some local BBQ, fills up the gas tank, heads home.

    Option C:
    -apply A or B, but use a cheap substitute bridge and mail the original bridge from Canada to the US separately.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    Most of Canada lives mere miles from the US border.
    Most of Canada? Hmmm, had to read that twice before deciding you probably meant "most Canadians" and then had to see for myself



    You'd have thought more would have moved further away from that "big" bad brother, with so much space to spare

  20. #19

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    We love our American brethren.
    Heck, I'd move to Stanstead, if it wasn't in
    Québec.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    We love our American brethren.
    Heck, I'd move to Stanstead, if it wasn't in
    Québec.
    curious about that subtext...

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab A.B.
    curious about that subtext...
    Stanstead? It's located right on the Canada / US border, and goes back to 1796. From Wiki: "Not only is Stanstead home to the Haskell Free Library and Opera House—the only heritage building deliberately constructed straddling the border between both countries—it also features Canusa Street, one of a number of streets in the world where the country border corresponds to the middle line marker, effectively making across-the-street neighbors residents of two countries."

    Québec?
    . I left Montreal in '86 and haven't looked back. As the old saw goes, it's a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

    Where are you located?


  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    Stanstead? It's located right on the Canada / US border, and goes back to 1796. From Wiki: "Not only is Stanstead home to the Haskell Free Library and Opera House—the only heritage building deliberately constructed straddling the border between both countries—it also features Canusa Street, one of a number of streets in the world where the country border corresponds to the middle line marker, effectively making across-the-street neighbors residents of two countries."

    Québec?
    . I left Montreal in '86 and haven't looked back. As the old saw goes, it's a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

    Where are you located?

    I'm familiar with Stanstead/Derby Line...

    I'm in Montreal

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gab A.B.
    I'm familiar with Stanstead/Derby Line... I'm in Montreal
    OK. More specifically, as someone born and raised in Montreal, I'd be happy to live there in the spring/summer/fall. Winter, not so much. Great place, lots of fascinating history, interesting architecture, excellent dining, but the never-ending political baggage (provincial and municipal)
    and its fallout are not for me.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 12-14-2022 at 05:12 PM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Most of Canada? Hmmm, had to read that twice before deciding you probably meant "most Canadians" and then had to see for myself



    You'd have thought more would have moved further away from that "big" bad brother, with so much space to spare
    (Checks) I'm 125 km!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    (Checks) I'm 125 km!
    Guess you'll be fine then. I'm about 30km closer to Paris city limit and even I survive (though I was very annoyed not to get my already delayed pet-food order because the Paris police chief had banned all truck traffic the past 24 hours because of expected winter conditions including the possibility of black ice, grrr)