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no affiliation but I've bought some nice things @ Gryphon over the yrs, very professional old school shop.
I'm a Gibson player but this one looks very nice and seems to be priced even lower than sunburst examples w/less figured maple.
2009 Heritage Guitar Super KB Antique Natural - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments (gryphonstrings.com)
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01-08-2021 05:48 PM
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Oh my! That won't last at that price.
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That's a beauty!
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What a great and beautiful guitar.
Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Perfect example of a shop that wants to really sell a guitar. Priced fair and certainly nice. I notice they don't use Reverb.
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that was my first thought Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
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Keep your eye on Gryphon. A huge archtop collector is offing them 1 by 1 due to his age.
Also Gryphon insures with Heritage Insurance Co. so a no risk shipping buy.
I will audition it tomorrow but I am a Gibson guy.
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Bro, that JP20 they have looks like a sweety too.
That’s a really nice guitar.
The Kenny Burrell looks beautiful. I like it. I hope it has a thick top. It would be cool if you left with it.
JD
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The JP20 is nice - but I feel the pick up location should be closer to the neck. Originally Posted by Max405
The Super Kenny is a beauty and I love the single built in pickup , which seems quite rare for this model.
I’m glad Vinny is checking it out - hopefully he likes it ...it’s a great buy.
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Thanks for the heads up on the collection coming to market. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Enjoy your test drive of the Super Kenny.
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Yeah, most people say that. Originally Posted by QAman
I had one and the only reason I sold it was at that time my left hand couldn’t adjust to the thin neck coming from the fuller Gibson necks. Now that I have the Gb100, I’ve gotten used to it.
The JP allows you to pick in that empty space between the pickup and neck, without clicking the pickup with your pick, AND you get rewarded with a beautiful warm but clear sound. Sort of like a cross between a 175 and a Strat. I love the JP. If I could, I’d buy another in a heartbeat.
JD
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That's a beautiful SKB. I'll bet it's not a thick top. It may also be X-braced. I say that because it was built with a single pickup and was ordered by Jay Wolfe. All bets are off.
I'd ask if the top thickness and bracing matter to you. That wouldn't for me actually. They make different types of heavenly sounds, that's all.
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tim!!! Hows it going? Originally Posted by gitfiddler
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hey mark!!! Originally Posted by marty grass
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Beautiful instruments. But maybe they do not want to sell this one for $31.000.... Originally Posted by deacon Mark
1961 Gibson Guitar ES-335 Sunburst - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments
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The price for guitars sold on consignment depends on the motivation of the actual owner, not the shop. A motivated owner will price an instrument to sell, a less motivated one will price them at a point that will push the market. For the dealer, it is all good. The well priced units move and the overpriced units give them some desirable gems to advertise and bring traffic to their websites/stores. Originally Posted by Gabor
I think the Heritage guitar in question is not an easy guitar to sell. It is a Heritage, not a Gibson Super 400 and with one pickup, it will be of no interest to the scores of blues, rockabilly and country guitarists who use archtops and require a second pickup. One can still buy a Super 400 CES in sunburst, with plain woods for $6500. I would personally do that before buying the Heritage guitar in question. YMMV
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Absolute wisdom SS, the guitar is not bad priced but you bring up some interesting points. For me personally I would only want one pick up. What I do not like is a sharp cutaway not my thing. Also you and I agree a Gibson is by far a better deal in the long run. A Super 400, is a Super 400. is a Super 400............... Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Brent arrived, and that's a good thing. He is a true Heritage expert and historian. He also is an excellent guy to buy from. Originally Posted by BRENTROCKS
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Good point about the space for picking. That's usually a problem I do experience with neck pickups- especially if the pickups are set close to the strings. Originally Posted by Max405
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yes, we all know the price is determined by the market. I was talking about what I linked, the es 335 for $31.000. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Great place
great staff
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I’d buy that guitar if it weren’t blonde. And if the price was right. I’m old school and bought a Heritage Super Kenny Burrell Florentine for $3600. I don’t buy these guitars because their prices are over inflated. Who wants to buy a guitar that you could have bought just 4 years ago for $3600? Let someone else acquire an overpriced Heritage. A Super 400 can be purchased for less than $600 more. Hmmm, might as well purchase the real thing.
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Hopefully it’s not somebody here selling that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a Heritage selling for anywhere near that price, even though used Heritage prices are slowly going up.
beautiful guitar though
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I certainly wouldn't expect this guitar to sell for the full asking price, nor would I expect it to sell for prices from 3-4 years ago. I track the market daily and prices have gone up for both Gibson and Heritage used guitars , as well as high quality used flat tops. Despite the pandemic, 2020 was a record year for guitar sales.
If we want the guitars we purchased 3-4 years ago to remain at those old prices without appreciating, then I guess stating that current values are overpriced is one way to rally consensus/ sentiment towards that perception.
Certain Archtop guitar prices are on the rise, .....and we are no longer at the bottom of the market we witnessed 3-4 years ago.
Try to even find a red NOS Gibson Wes Montgomery for $5500 today - not likely to happen - those days are behind us, but our minds are still fixed on those prices.
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Qman
Truth
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Stating an asking price is overpriced is different than saying current values are overpriced. Originally Posted by QAman
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I’d be the first to acknowledge that the moment both Heritage and Gibson stopped producing arch tops prices of used products went through the roof. But these pie in the sky prices are asking prices. What I’m saying is I’m unwilling to pay a “no longer in production” price bump for used goods. I don’t believe that SKB even brought $5600 when it was brand new 12 years ago.
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I bought many Heritage guitars from Jay Wolf in Jupiter Florida. Jay was the Heritage guru at the time with a direct line to the Hertiage folks. If this was ordered as a one off deal, he would have been the person to go to. I am not saying a guitar ordered by Jay is better than the many others he had in stock at the time. But I think Heritage show cased their guitars through Jay. Heritage at the time were rather conservative about promoting their guitars. IMO I think they felt the merits of their craftsmanship should be enough to promote their guitars. Regardless Jay was huge in getting the word out. BTW I noticed Jay had been selling some his private stuff on Reverb.
Originally Posted by Wildcat
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I thought you could still special order archtops from both Gibson and Heritage. Heritage allows you to request some on their website. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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As a fan of Heritage Guitars and someone who ordered a custom upgraded instrument from them, I still believe the listed Super KB is not priced out of line for what it is. No, I'm not affiliated with the former owner/consignee or Gryphon. Back in 2012 I ordered my beloved H-525 Custom. After all of my custom options were added up, the total was just over $3k. And that was for a laminate instrument!! And it was at a time when Heritage would build almost anything customers asked as long as it was based on one of their core models.
So if a basic SKB retailed for between $3k-$4k back when new, start by adding up the obvious upgrades of the blonde model for sale. It probably cost over $4k out the door. So with the rising cost of archtops on the used market, why wouldn't this one be worth upwards of $5k?
If I were in the market I'd offer Gryphon something a bit less than their asking price, but not a whole lot.
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Talk about an overpriced Heritage SKB: Heritage Super KB Kenny Burrell 2017 Chestnut Sunburst | | Reverb. Can't imagine what justifies the asking price on this one. For comparison sake, here's a Super Eagle also on Reverb: Heritage Super Eagle 2014 Wine Burst | Vince's Select | Reverb. Got some odd stuff going on with it, like the control knobs and some weird fix for a strap button hole, but those can be fixed. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Originally Posted by Wildcat
Not sure what it means but Wolfe signed the label of this one.
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Oof, you'd have to refinish the heel to fix that Super Eagle (couple hundred dollars). And hope it's not hiding a break. Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
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That SE looks like something that was custom-ordered by Peter Bright - he liked big Heritage archtops with unbound boards/headstocks and chrome hardware, as well as that strap button placement. He's a member here but hasn't posted in a few years. Originally Posted by HeyNow
Yes, Gibson and Heritage would both be very happy to build you whatever you want from their back catalogues. And once you see what they charge for the privilege, you'll see that the blonde SKB at Gryphon is actually a fine deal. Originally Posted by HeyNow
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 03:54 PM.
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Heritage's asking price for a new one doesn't solely mean this one is a fine deal. That's just one factor and there's still a used market. As Steve said, you can buy a used Gibson S400 for a little more - a guitar with more brand recognition and historically better resale value. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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I realize Reverb isn't the perfect source for pricing gear, but its a starting place to get a general idea.
Reverb sales history for Gibson Super 400's:
Gibson Custom Shop Super 400 CES | Reverb
Reverb Current listings:
Gibson Custom Shop Super 400 CES | Reverb
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Since this forum goes beyond US soil - it would be interesting to get some more pricing prospective / opinions ( on this guitar) from non US based members.
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I won't say Jay's guitars are universally better Heritages. I do know that Jay had very high standards and sent many Heritages back to the factory over what some would call small flaws. I saw that Jay had special racks at Heritage in the shipping area. I asked one of the Heritage owners why he had a special outgoing rack. He explained that Jay had the highest rejection rate so his got a second inspection. They also tended to give the best woods for him. Originally Posted by Wildcat
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OK, I'll play along. It appears that one S-400 in the sales history over at Reverb shows at $6K. the others seem to have sold for way more. Originally Posted by HeyNow
So, let's say I want an 18", carved top/carved back, archtop with an original cutaway, with primo flamed maple rims/back. With a single pickup, or even a floating pickup. In excellent condition. Preferably blonde, but let's open it up to any colour. And that I like any neck and scale length. From a proven builder, preferably built in North America, maybe Europe, not China.
And let's say I'm more concerned with how the guitar sounds and plays than with brand recognition and resale value. What are my options in the sub-$6,000 range, today and over the next little while?
Here's a start, with a few builders (there are certainly more) who have built 18"+ archtops that occasionally come up used around or below that price point:
-Campellone
-Elferink
-Heritage SKB
-Heritage Super Eagle
-Moll
-Triggs
-Victor Baker
-Wilkie
-Zimnicki
I poked around a bit and found a couple currently for sale that fit the bill:
Elferink Guitar Moderne 18'' Custom Model 2018 Amber | Reverb
1998 Jim Triggs 18" Cutaway Archtop Natural Finish | Reverb
The SKB at Gryphon certainly hangs with either of those.
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 04:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
I don't know why people use Reverb pricing.
1) the sample size is small
2) you don't see the details of those sales - what year, for example. A 50s-60s Super 400 will command way more than a recent one (if in good condition)
Are you describing your Super Eagle?So, let's say I want an 18", carved top/carved back, archtop with an original cutaway, with primo flamed maple rims/back. With a single pickup, or even a floating pickup. In excellent condition. Preferably blonde, but let's open it up to any colour. And that I like any neck and scale length. From a proven builder, preferably built in North America, maybe Europe, not China.
I think your Super Eagle and this KB are almost certainly top notch quality. Up there with archtops that sold/sell for much more. Heritage definitely has not got the respect it should have in the past, particularly in the archtops. I highly doubt you paid $5600.
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I wasn't thinking of my guitars at all, actually. I do have three Heritage carved top/back archtops, all quite different from each other, and paid plenty for a couple of them, simply because they appealed to me. All I'm saying is that, if I was looking for that specific style of guitar to play, today, that SKB wouldn't strike me as particularly expensive. Originally Posted by HeyNow
...Are you describing your Super Eagle? ... I think your Super Eagle and this KB are almost certainly top notch quality. Up there with archtops that sold/sell for much more. Heritage definitely has not got the respect it should have in the past, particularly in the archtops. I highly doubt you paid $5600.
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 07:47 PM.
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Up until 3 years ago these SE and SKB guitars sold for less than $4K. I recall 2 1/2 years ago this identical guitar in a Super Eagle with a single pickup selling on Reverb for $3200. The guitar was near mint. Prices began to go through the roof once Heritage stopped producing these guitars. Which is why you now see $10k prices for SE’s and over $5k for a Sweet 16! So no, I refuse to pay inflated prices for these guitars, but someone will. Good for them.
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Wondering if you were able to audition the SKB, Vinny? If so, what did you think of it? Not that I'm in a buying mood right now! Thanks! Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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If I were 20 years old, committed to old school jazz and this was my only guitar purchase ever, it would be a steal at that price.
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Stock markets, housing markets, obscure niche guitar markets - all generally follow the same rules. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Society changes, things happen, prices change. It's about what people want and are willing to pay.
Fifty dollars certainly hasn't paid the rent for awhile in my corner of the world.
Most of the changes in the prices for large-bodied, carved archtop guitars make sense to me.Last edited by Hammertone; 01-13-2021 at 03:23 PM.
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According to my crawler, Joe V had a Kenny Burrell prototype July 2019 for sale at $4495. His prices usually include a 25% consignment fee built in. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
One for $3895 July 2018
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Clean wine red L5 on archtop.com, October 2020. $5995 Originally Posted by QAman
2003 Gibson L-5CES, Rare Wine Finish
from Joe: "virtually unplayed condition"
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Back on topic.................Wow!!
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While this is a nice guitar - it’s not NOS , and I personally would not trust a description by Archtop.com. Originally Posted by HeyNow
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Thanks for getting us back on topic. This is a beautiful SKB guitar and I'm looking forward to Vinny's assessment. Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
Back on topic.................Wow!!
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