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  1. #1

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    no affiliation but I've bought some nice things @ Gryphon over the yrs, very professional old school shop.
    I'm a Gibson player but this one looks very nice and seems to be priced even lower than sunburst examples w/less figured maple.


    2009 Heritage Guitar Super KB Antique Natural - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments (gryphonstrings.com)

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Oh my! That won't last at that price.

  4. #3

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    That's a beauty!

  5. #4

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    What a great and beautiful guitar.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    no affiliation but I've bought some nice things @ Gryphon over the yrs, very professional old school shop.
    I'm a Gibson player but this one looks very nice and seems to be priced even lower than sunburst examples w/less figured maple.


    2009 Heritage Guitar Super KB Antique Natural - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments (gryphonstrings.com)

  6. #5

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    Perfect example of a shop that wants to really sell a guitar. Priced fair and certainly nice. I notice they don't use Reverb.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Oh my! That won't last at that price.
    that was my first thought

  8. #7

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    Keep your eye on Gryphon. A huge archtop collector is offing them 1 by 1 due to his age.
    Also Gryphon insures with Heritage Insurance Co. so a no risk shipping buy.
    I will audition it tomorrow but I am a Gibson guy.

  9. #8

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    Bro, that JP20 they have looks like a sweety too.
    That’s a really nice guitar.
    The Kenny Burrell looks beautiful. I like it. I hope it has a thick top. It would be cool if you left with it.
    JD

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Bro, that JP20 they have looks like a sweety too.
    That’s a really nice guitar.
    The Kenny Burrell looks beautiful. I like it. I hope it has a thick top. It would be cool if you left with it.
    JD
    The JP20 is nice - but I feel the pick up location should be closer to the neck.

    The Super Kenny is a beauty and I love the single built in pickup , which seems quite rare for this model.

    I’m glad Vinny is checking it out - hopefully he likes it ...it’s a great buy.


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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Keep your eye on Gryphon. A huge archtop collector is offing them 1 by 1 due to his age.
    Also Gryphon insures with Heritage Insurance Co. so a no risk shipping buy.
    I will audition it tomorrow but I am a Gibson guy.
    Thanks for the heads up on the collection coming to market.

    Enjoy your test drive of the Super Kenny.


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  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman
    The JP20 is nice - but I feel the pick up location should be closer to the neck.
    The Super Kenny is a beauty and I love the single built in pickup , which seems quite rare for this model.
    I’m glad Vinny is checking it out - hopefully he likes it ...it’s a great buy.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah, most people say that.
    I had one and the only reason I sold it was at that time my left hand couldn’t adjust to the thin neck coming from the fuller Gibson necks. Now that I have the Gb100, I’ve gotten used to it.
    The JP allows you to pick in that empty space between the pickup and neck, without clicking the pickup with your pick, AND you get rewarded with a beautiful warm but clear sound. Sort of like a cross between a 175 and a Strat. I love the JP. If I could, I’d buy another in a heartbeat.
    JD

  13. #12

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    That's a beautiful SKB. I'll bet it's not a thick top. It may also be X-braced. I say that because it was built with a single pickup and was ordered by Jay Wolfe. All bets are off.

    I'd ask if the top thickness and bracing matter to you. That wouldn't for me actually. They make different types of heavenly sounds, that's all.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitfiddler
    oh my! That won't last at that price.
    tim!!! Hows it going?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty grass
    that's a beautiful skb. I'll bet it's not a thick top. It may also be x-braced. I say that because it was built with a single pickup and was ordered by jay wolfe. All bets are off.

    I'd ask if the top thickness and bracing matter to you. That wouldn't for me actually. They make different types of heavenly sounds, that's all.
    hey mark!!!

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    Perfect example of a shop that wants to really sell a guitar. Priced fair and certainly nice. I notice they don't use Reverb.
    Beautiful instruments. But maybe they do not want to sell this one for $31.000....

    1961 Gibson Guitar ES-335 Sunburst - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Beautiful instruments. But maybe they do not want to sell this one for $31.000....

    1961 Gibson Guitar ES-335 Sunburst - Guitar - Gryphon Stringed Instruments
    The price for guitars sold on consignment depends on the motivation of the actual owner, not the shop. A motivated owner will price an instrument to sell, a less motivated one will price them at a point that will push the market. For the dealer, it is all good. The well priced units move and the overpriced units give them some desirable gems to advertise and bring traffic to their websites/stores.

    I think the Heritage guitar in question is not an easy guitar to sell. It is a Heritage, not a Gibson Super 400 and with one pickup, it will be of no interest to the scores of blues, rockabilly and country guitarists who use archtops and require a second pickup. One can still buy a Super 400 CES in sunburst, with plain woods for $6500. I would personally do that before buying the Heritage guitar in question. YMMV

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    The price for guitars sold on consignment depends on the motivation of the actual owner, not the shop. A motivated owner will price an instrument to sell, a less motivated one will price them at a point that will push the market. For the dealer, it is all good. The well priced units move and the overpriced units give them some desirable gems to advertise and bring traffic to their websites/stores.

    I think the Heritage guitar in question is not an easy guitar to sell. It is a Heritage, not a Gibson Super 400 and with one pickup, it will be of no interest to the scores of blues, rockabilly and country guitarists who use archtops and require a second pickup. One can still buy a Super 400 CES in sunburst, with plain woods for $6500. I would personally do that before buying the Heritage guitar in question. YMMV
    Absolute wisdom SS, the guitar is not bad priced but you bring up some interesting points. For me personally I would only want one pick up. What I do not like is a sharp cutaway not my thing. Also you and I agree a Gibson is by far a better deal in the long run. A Super 400, is a Super 400. is a Super 400...............

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRENTROCKS
    hey mark!!!
    Brent arrived, and that's a good thing. He is a true Heritage expert and historian. He also is an excellent guy to buy from.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Yeah, most people say that.
    I had one and the only reason I sold it was at that time my left hand couldn’t adjust to the thin neck coming from the fuller Gibson necks. Now that I have the Gb100, I’ve gotten used to it.
    The JP allows you to pick in that empty space between the pickup and neck, without clicking the pickup with your pick, AND you get rewarded with a beautiful warm but clear sound. Sort of like a cross between a 175 and a Strat. I love the JP. If I could, I’d buy another in a heartbeat.
    JD
    Good point about the space for picking. That's usually a problem I do experience with neck pickups- especially if the pickups are set close to the strings.

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  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    The price for guitars sold on consignment depends on the motivation of the actual owner, not the shop. A motivated owner will price an instrument to sell, a less motivated one will price them at a point that will push the market. For the dealer, it is all good. The well priced units move and the overpriced units give them some desirable gems to advertise and bring traffic to their websites/stores.

    I think the Heritage guitar in question is not an easy guitar to sell. It is a Heritage, not a Gibson Super 400 and with one pickup, it will be of no interest to the scores of blues, rockabilly and country guitarists who use archtops and require a second pickup. One can still buy a Super 400 CES in sunburst, with plain woods for $6500. I would personally do that before buying the Heritage guitar in question. YMMV
    yes, we all know the price is determined by the market. I was talking about what I linked, the es 335 for $31.000.

  22. #21

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    Great place
    great staff

  23. #22

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    I’d buy that guitar if it weren’t blonde. And if the price was right. I’m old school and bought a Heritage Super Kenny Burrell Florentine for $3600. I don’t buy these guitars because their prices are over inflated. Who wants to buy a guitar that you could have bought just 4 years ago for $3600? Let someone else acquire an overpriced Heritage. A Super 400 can be purchased for less than $600 more. Hmmm, might as well purchase the real thing.

  24. #23

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    Hopefully it’s not somebody here selling that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a Heritage selling for anywhere near that price, even though used Heritage prices are slowly going up.

    beautiful guitar though

  25. #24

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    I certainly wouldn't expect this guitar to sell for the full asking price, nor would I expect it to sell for prices from 3-4 years ago. I track the market daily and prices have gone up for both Gibson and Heritage used guitars , as well as high quality used flat tops. Despite the pandemic, 2020 was a record year for guitar sales.

    If we want the guitars we purchased 3-4 years ago to remain at those old prices without appreciating, then I guess stating that current values are overpriced is one way to rally consensus/ sentiment towards that perception.

    Certain Archtop guitar prices are on the rise, .....and we are no longer at the bottom of the market we witnessed 3-4 years ago.

    Try to even find a red NOS Gibson Wes Montgomery for $5500 today - not likely to happen - those days are behind us, but our minds are still fixed on those prices.



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  26. #25

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    Qman

    Truth

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman
    If we want the guitars we purchased 3-4 years ago to remain at those old prices without appreciating, then I guess stating that current values are overpriced is one way to rally consensus/ sentiment towards that perception.
    Stating an asking price is overpriced is different than saying current values are overpriced.

  28. #27

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    I’d be the first to acknowledge that the moment both Heritage and Gibson stopped producing arch tops prices of used products went through the roof. But these pie in the sky prices are asking prices. What I’m saying is I’m unwilling to pay a “no longer in production” price bump for used goods. I don’t believe that SKB even brought $5600 when it was brand new 12 years ago.

  29. #28

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    I bought many Heritage guitars from Jay Wolf in Jupiter Florida. Jay was the Heritage guru at the time with a direct line to the Hertiage folks. If this was ordered as a one off deal, he would have been the person to go to. I am not saying a guitar ordered by Jay is better than the many others he had in stock at the time. But I think Heritage show cased their guitars through Jay. Heritage at the time were rather conservative about promoting their guitars. IMO I think they felt the merits of their craftsmanship should be enough to promote their guitars. Regardless Jay was huge in getting the word out. BTW I noticed Jay had been selling some his private stuff on Reverb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    What a great and beautiful guitar.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    I’d be the first to acknowledge that the moment both Heritage and Gibson stopped producing arch tops prices of used products went through the roof. But these pie in the sky prices are asking prices. What I’m saying is I’m unwilling to pay a “no longer in production” price bump for used goods. I don’t believe that SKB even brought $5600 when it was brand new 12 years ago.
    I thought you could still special order archtops from both Gibson and Heritage. Heritage allows you to request some on their website.

  31. #30

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    As a fan of Heritage Guitars and someone who ordered a custom upgraded instrument from them, I still believe the listed Super KB is not priced out of line for what it is. No, I'm not affiliated with the former owner/consignee or Gryphon. Back in 2012 I ordered my beloved H-525 Custom. After all of my custom options were added up, the total was just over $3k. And that was for a laminate instrument!! And it was at a time when Heritage would build almost anything customers asked as long as it was based on one of their core models.

    So if a basic SKB retailed for between $3k-$4k back when new, start by adding up the obvious upgrades of the blonde model for sale. It probably cost over $4k out the door. So with the rising cost of archtops on the used market, why wouldn't this one be worth upwards of $5k?

    If I were in the market I'd offer Gryphon something a bit less than their asking price, but not a whole lot.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    I’d buy that guitar if it weren’t blonde. And if the price was right. I’m old school and bought a Heritage Super Kenny Burrell Florentine for $3600. I don’t buy these guitars because their prices are over inflated. Who wants to buy a guitar that you could have bought just 4 years ago for $3600? Let someone else acquire an overpriced Heritage. A Super 400 can be purchased for less than $600 more. Hmmm, might as well purchase the real thing.
    Talk about an overpriced Heritage SKB: Heritage Super KB Kenny Burrell 2017 Chestnut Sunburst | | Reverb. Can't imagine what justifies the asking price on this one. For comparison sake, here's a Super Eagle also on Reverb: Heritage Super Eagle 2014 Wine Burst | Vince's Select | Reverb. Got some odd stuff going on with it, like the control knobs and some weird fix for a strap button hole, but those can be fixed.

  33. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    I bought many Heritage guitars from Jay Wolf in Jupiter Florida. Jay was the Heritage guru at the time with a direct line to the Hertiage folks. If this was ordered as a one off deal, he would have been the person to go to. I am not saying a guitar ordered by Jay is better than the many others he had in stock at the time. But I think Heritage show cased their guitars through Jay. Heritage at the time were rather conservative about promoting their guitars. IMO I think they felt the merits of their craftsmanship should be enough to promote their guitars. Regardless Jay was huge in getting the word out. BTW I noticed Jay had been selling some his private stuff on Reverb.

    Not sure what it means but Wolfe signed the label of this one.

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
    Talk about an overpriced Heritage SKB: Heritage Super KB Kenny Burrell 2017 Chestnut Sunburst | | Reverb. Can't imagine what justifies the asking price on this one. For comparison sake, here's a Super Eagle also on Reverb: Heritage Super Eagle 2014 Wine Burst | Vince's Select | Reverb. Got some odd stuff going on with it, like the control knobs and some weird fix for a strap button hole, but those can be fixed.
    Oof, you'd have to refinish the heel to fix that Super Eagle (couple hundred dollars). And hope it's not hiding a break.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Oof, you'd have to refinish the heel to fix that Super Eagle (couple hundred dollars). And hope it's not hiding a break.
    That SE looks like something that was custom-ordered by Peter Bright - he liked big Heritage archtops with unbound boards/headstocks and chrome hardware, as well as that strap button placement. He's a member here but hasn't posted in a few years.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    I thought you could still special order archtops from both Gibson and Heritage. Heritage allows you to request some on their website.
    Yes, Gibson and Heritage would both be very happy to build you whatever you want from their back catalogues. And once you see what they charge for the privilege, you'll see that the blonde SKB at Gryphon is actually a fine deal.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 03:54 PM.

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    And once you see what they charge for the privilege, you'll see that the blonde SKB at Gryphon is actually a fine deal.
    Heritage's asking price for a new one doesn't solely mean this one is a fine deal. That's just one factor and there's still a used market. As Steve said, you can buy a used Gibson S400 for a little more - a guitar with more brand recognition and historically better resale value.

  37. #36

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    I realize Reverb isn't the perfect source for pricing gear, but its a starting place to get a general idea.

    Reverb sales history for Gibson Super 400's:

    Gibson Custom Shop Super 400 CES | Reverb

    Reverb Current listings:

    Gibson Custom Shop Super 400 CES | Reverb

  38. #37

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    Since this forum goes beyond US soil - it would be interesting to get some more pricing prospective / opinions ( on this guitar) from non US based members.


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  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    I bought many Heritage guitars from Jay Wolf in Jupiter Florida. Jay was the Heritage guru at the time with a direct line to the Hertiage folks. If this was ordered as a one off deal, he would have been the person to go to. I am not saying a guitar ordered by Jay is better than the many others he had in stock at the time. But I think Heritage show cased their guitars through Jay. Heritage at the time were rather conservative about promoting their guitars. IMO I think they felt the merits of their craftsmanship should be enough to promote their guitars. Regardless Jay was huge in getting the word out. BTW I noticed Jay had been selling some his private stuff on Reverb.
    I won't say Jay's guitars are universally better Heritages. I do know that Jay had very high standards and sent many Heritages back to the factory over what some would call small flaws. I saw that Jay had special racks at Heritage in the shipping area. I asked one of the Heritage owners why he had a special outgoing rack. He explained that Jay had the highest rejection rate so his got a second inspection. They also tended to give the best woods for him.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Heritage's asking price for a new one doesn't solely mean this one is a fine deal. That's just one factor and there's still a used market. As Steve said, you can buy a used Gibson S400 for a little more - a guitar with more brand recognition and historically better resale value.
    OK, I'll play along. It appears that one S-400 in the sales history over at Reverb shows at $6K. the others seem to have sold for way more.

    So, let's say I want an 18", carved top/carved back, archtop with an original cutaway, with primo flamed maple rims/back. With a single pickup, or even a floating pickup. In excellent condition. Preferably blonde, but let's open it up to any colour. And that I like any neck and scale length. From a proven builder, preferably built in North America, maybe Europe, not China.

    And let's say I'm more concerned with how the guitar sounds and plays than with brand recognition and resale value. What are my options in the sub-$6,000 range, today and over the next little while?

    Here's a start, with a few builders (there are certainly more) who have built 18"+ archtops that occasionally come up used around or below that price point:
    -Campellone
    -Elferink
    -Heritage SKB
    -Heritage Super Eagle
    -Moll
    -Triggs
    -Victor Baker
    -Wilkie
    -Zimnicki

    I poked around a bit and found a couple currently for sale that fit the bill:
    Elferink Guitar Moderne 18'' Custom Model 2018 Amber | Reverb
    1998 Jim Triggs 18" Cutaway Archtop Natural Finish | Reverb

    The SKB at Gryphon certainly hangs with either of those.

    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 04:59 PM.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    OK, I'll play along. It appears that one S-400 in the sales history over at Reverb shows at $6K. the others seem to have sold for way more.


    I don't know why people use Reverb pricing.

    1) the sample size is small
    2) you don't see the details of those sales - what year, for example. A 50s-60s Super 400 will command way more than a recent one (if in good condition)

    So, let's say I want an 18", carved top/carved back, archtop with an original cutaway, with primo flamed maple rims/back. With a single pickup, or even a floating pickup. In excellent condition. Preferably blonde, but let's open it up to any colour. And that I like any neck and scale length. From a proven builder, preferably built in North America, maybe Europe, not China.
    Are you describing your Super Eagle?

    I think your Super Eagle and this KB are almost certainly top notch quality. Up there with archtops that sold/sell for much more. Heritage definitely has not got the respect it should have in the past, particularly in the archtops. I highly doubt you paid $5600.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    ...Are you describing your Super Eagle? ... I think your Super Eagle and this KB are almost certainly top notch quality. Up there with archtops that sold/sell for much more. Heritage definitely has not got the respect it should have in the past, particularly in the archtops. I highly doubt you paid $5600.
    I wasn't thinking of my guitars at all, actually. I do have three Heritage carved top/back archtops, all quite different from each other, and paid plenty for a couple of them, simply because they appealed to me. All I'm saying is that, if I was looking for that specific style of guitar to play, today, that SKB wouldn't strike me as particularly expensive.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 07:47 PM.

  43. #42

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    Up until 3 years ago these SE and SKB guitars sold for less than $4K. I recall 2 1/2 years ago this identical guitar in a Super Eagle with a single pickup selling on Reverb for $3200. The guitar was near mint. Prices began to go through the roof once Heritage stopped producing these guitars. Which is why you now see $10k prices for SE’s and over $5k for a Sweet 16! So no, I refuse to pay inflated prices for these guitars, but someone will. Good for them.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Keep your eye on Gryphon. A huge archtop collector is offing them 1 by 1 due to his age.
    Also Gryphon insures with Heritage Insurance Co. so a no risk shipping buy.
    I will audition it tomorrow but I am a Gibson guy.
    Wondering if you were able to audition the SKB, Vinny? If so, what did you think of it? Not that I'm in a buying mood right now! Thanks!

  45. #44

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    If I were 20 years old, committed to old school jazz and this was my only guitar purchase ever, it would be a steal at that price.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Up until 3 years ago these SE and SKB guitars sold for less than $4K. I recall 2 1/2 years ago this identical guitar in a Super Eagle with a single pickup selling on Reverb for $3200. The guitar was near mint. Prices began to go through the roof once Heritage stopped producing these guitars. Which is why you now see $10k prices for SE’s and over $5k for a Sweet 16! So no, I refuse to pay inflated prices for these guitars, but someone will. Good for them.
    Stock markets, housing markets, obscure niche guitar markets - all generally follow the same rules.
    Society changes, things happen, prices change. It's about what people want and are willing to pay.
    Fifty dollars certainly hasn't paid the rent for awhile in my corner of the world.
    Most of the changes in the prices for large-bodied, carved archtop guitars make sense to me.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-13-2021 at 03:23 PM.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Up until 3 years ago these SE and SKB guitars sold for less than $4K. I recall 2 1/2 years ago this identical guitar in a Super Eagle with a single pickup selling on Reverb for $3200. The guitar was near mint. Prices began to go through the roof once Heritage stopped producing these guitars. Which is why you now see $10k prices for SE’s and over $5k for a Sweet 16! So no, I refuse to pay inflated prices for these guitars, but someone will. Good for them.
    According to my crawler, Joe V had a Kenny Burrell prototype July 2019 for sale at $4495. His prices usually include a 25% consignment fee built in.



    One for $3895 July 2018


  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman
    Try to even find a red NOS Gibson Wes Montgomery for $5500 today - not likely to happen - those days are behind us, but our minds are still fixed on those prices.
    Clean wine red L5 on archtop.com, October 2020. $5995

    2003 Gibson L-5CES, Rare Wine Finish

    from Joe: "virtually unplayed condition"

  49. #48

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    Back on topic.................Wow!!


  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Clean wine red L5 on archtop.com, October 2020. $5995

    2003 Gibson L-5CES, Rare Wine Finish

    from Joe: "virtually unplayed condition"
    While this is a nice guitar - it’s not NOS , and I personally would not trust a description by Archtop.com.


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  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Back on topic.................Wow!!

    Thanks for getting us back on topic. This is a beautiful SKB guitar and I'm looking forward to Vinny's assessment.


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