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  1. #1

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    Hi there,
    I'm actively looking to buy such a guitar, a Super Eagle or it's close relative, the Kenny Burrell model. The single pickup/Florentine cutaway version would be the preferred one, color no issue as long as it's not blue or bright red. I have been a Super-400 CES player in the past 20 years and currently own a very nice '63 in sunburst but I'm increasingly apprehensive to take that rare bird out on gigs so an SE would be the natural successor .... let me know in case you know of one for sale, Thanks !

    ?
    Last edited by gitman; 07-18-2019 at 06:59 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  4. #3

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    Not to get in the way of my friend Jabs he has a superb guitar for sale, but I also have my Elferink an 18 but it has a floating pickup so probably would not work. Jabs guitar certainly is a much better buy in the US since it is Heritage and well known. Mine is $4400 out the door see it in the for sale section. I took it off reverb was not getting any action and seem useless to keep at it.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  5. #4

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  6. #5

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    Not hard at all, Sir ! I've been on the www for a few days and found these alright but there are a few cognoscenti on this forum who might have
    something at home that they're willing to part with.... you never know !





  7. #6

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    I see you're in Mannheim - why don't you find a big old 18" Wolfrum locally? They are great guitars - fully carved, great sounding, built like tanks, and cheap. No one in Germany or elsewhere gives a shit about these guitars. Have the neck re-shaped to a sensible profile, and convert the guitar to CES specifications. This will save you a bundle! Here's one: Wolfrum Schlaggitarre 1958 | Lui’s Guitar Garage | Reverb
    Attached Images Attached Images Heritage Super Eagle-wolfrum_1528-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 07-23-2019 at 08:24 AM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  8. #7

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    A good friend is the proud owner of an ARTUR LANG guitar that he custom ordered from Master Lang some 35 years ago, a real "mother" of an acoustic archtop.
    These boxes are absolutely worthy contenders when compared to the acoustic versions of the L5, JS or Super-400 models but at the moment I am not looking for an acoustic
    archtop - I want to replace my Super-400 CES with a stage-worthy guitar that can tolerate higher volume levels. The Super Eagle or Super Kenny models would fit that bill I reckon .....
    BTW , there is def. a lot of (and steadily growing) interest in vintage german archtops but very often these guitars are in a poor state, heavily modded or the seller is simply asking way too much. It's a collector's market for the most part.
    Thanks for the link, it's a beauty !

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitman View Post
    A good friend is the proud owner of an ARTUR LANG guitar that he custom ordered from Master Lang some 35 years ago, a real "mother" of an acoustic archtop.
    These boxes are absolutely worthy contenders when compared to the acoustic versions of the L5, JS or Super-400 models but at the moment I am not looking for an acoustic
    archtop - I want to replace my Super-400 CES with a stage-worthy guitar that can tolerate higher volume levels. The Super Eagle or Super Kenny models would fit that bill I reckon .....
    BTW , there is def. a lot of (and steadily growing) interest in vintage german archtops but very often these guitars are in a poor state, heavily modded or the seller is simply asking way too much. It's a collector's market for the most part.
    Thanks for the link, it's a beauty !
    Yes, that's why I wouldn't recommend a Lang for your purposes - they are acoustic archtops, not CES-style archtops. And only an idjit would chop up a Lang. BTW, if your friend custom-ordered a guitar from Lang, that would have been no less than 47 yers ago, since Lang stopped buildng in 1972 and died in 1975.

    There are plenty of high-quality, fully-carved West German and East German archtops that could be adapted to suit your needs, but very few of them are 18" wide and heavily built, hence my recommendation that you get a big Wolfrum. Another option is a mid-1960s Hofner New Committee, which is also 18", but those are typically laminated, and fairly lightly built. If you are willing to play something a bit smaller, you'll have more options, some of which are heavily built and are suitable for conversion to CES-style instruments.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  10. #9

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    Come to think of it, I have a lovely guitar that might fit the bill for you. I haven't been playing it a lot lately and would be happy to sell it to you. 18 1/2" wide, carved top/carved back. I'd be happy to have a Florenting KB-style cutaway added, along with as many set-in pickups as you want, at an attractive price. It's a John Abbott from the 1930s, already rebuilt (in @1980) to resemble a Gibson, so I'm not fussed about making further modifications to it. The picture of it next to the '50s Epiphone Emperor provides a relatively good sense of its large size. I've shown a quicky photoshopped version with a cutaway. Feel free to PM me for more.
    Attached Images Attached Images Heritage Super Eagle-img_4725-cutaway-jpg Heritage Super Eagle-abbott-epi_6263-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 07-23-2019 at 08:25 AM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  11. #10

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    Not really looking for something other than the above mentioned models - if a Heritage Eagle with built-in pickup(s) pops up then that could be a contender also !

  12. #11

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    Last edited by Hammertone; 07-23-2019 at 08:26 AM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  13. #12

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    Yes , I'm considering these - the higher grade versions (as used guitars) do offer more bling-for-the-buck and also tend to have a little better re-sale value. Heritage guitars in general suffer badly in that respect .... So I would rather hold out some more for one of the fancy ones before jumping ...

  14. #13

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    Dear Gitman,

    How about just ordering one from Stefan Sonntag whose prices look inline with used Heritage GEs once you take shipping, fees, import duty and MwSt into account? Archtop Jazz Guitar J18 Augusta by Stefan Sonntag

    And Stefan's headstock looks a damn sight better...
    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    .....
    What about an Eagle (carved mahogany top/back, mahogany neck & rims), CES-style:
    Heritage Eagle 1987 Sunburst | Guitar Works Ltd | Reverb
    This one is a thinline and looks like has got special work done on the saddle.
    IMHO, needs to be checked and played in person before you buy
    (Otherwise, I would have already bought it weeks ago !)
    Make a jazz noise here

  16. #15

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    Surely a nice guitar but it won’t best my very similarly spec‘d Victor Baker thinline ( 17“ lamtop, 2,25 rims, 25“ scale, one built-in KA pickup) I got from him some 6 or 7 years ago. A thinline def. has it’s very own sound and feel and I use it regularly but IMHO it can‘t cop the sound of a large box.
    The physics .....

  17. #16

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    I'm familiar with Stefan's guitars, a few (pro) colleagues own one and these are all fully acoustic models, some with floaters, some without.
    Honestly, I was not overwhelmed by any of the models I have played over the years.
    My fav. choices still are the two Eagle models and - if the right one comes along - a player grade Super-400CES/L-5CES. But I'm not holding my breath
    re an affordable, playable and "useable" Gibson : these are for the most part just either too expensive or severly modded/repaired/in bad nick - not worthy for a large investment.

    Usually I finance a new guitar by selling off stuff but in this case I want to retire a good instrument and need a replacement for gigging so the size of the investment is a big issue ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Dear Gitman,

    How about just ordering one from Stefan Sonntag whose prices look inline with used Heritage GEs once you take shipping, fees, import duty and MwSt into account? Archtop Jazz Guitar J18 Augusta by Stefan Sonntag

    And Stefan's headstock looks a damn sight better...

  18. #17

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    Possible scam :
    Last week I recieved a private message from a new member by the name of Harry G./ avatar "sanders.1" asking whether I'm still looking for a Heritage Super Eagle/Super Kenny and I asked him to send info to my personal email address. He sent photos of a nice '93 Super Eagle and to my big surprise he said he's located in Berlin/Germany - AND the price he quoted was VERY attractive. So I asked him to please give a phone number so we could discuss the transaction and I also gave him my number. He said he'd call but I never recieved that call, not on saturday and neither on sunday, despite his promise to do so. He never sent his number either.
    My gut-feeling now : he is trolling the WTB ads in the various forums and tries to lure potential buyers into a scam.

    No april-fools-day in August ! Anyway, I'm STILL looking for said guitar(s) so keep the offers coming !

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitman View Post
    Possible scam :
    Last week I recieved a private message from a new member by the name of Harry G./ avatar "sanders.1" asking whether I'm still looking for a Heritage Super Eagle/Super Kenny and I asked him to send info to my personal email address. He sent photos of a nice '93 Super Eagle and to my big surprise he said he's located in Berlin/Germany - AND the price he quoted was VERY attractive. So I asked him to please give a phone number so we could discuss the transaction and I also gave him my number. He said he'd call but I never recieved that call, not on saturday and neither on sunday, despite his promise to do so. He never sent his number either.
    My gut-feeling now : he is trolling the WTB ads in the various forums and tries to lure potential buyers into a scam.

    No april-fools-day in August ! Anyway, I'm STILL looking for said guitar(s) so keep the offers coming !

    This person contacted me too about a Wesmo L5 he had and wanted to sell for $5200. I ask for pictures and he then sent asking me for my address and phone. Well I did not give it to him I immediately knew this was a scam. A Crimson WEsmo for $5200 would be no issue to sell. I reported him to Dirk and he I believed banned him on other complaints.

    Be careful of the information you give out on this forum. I know a number of fellows here on the forum as really friends I have not met or only briefly and no problems with giving out person information through regular email, but be careful.

    On the other side of this I am still looking at Wesmo's and depending on how things go over the next few weeks could be telling. I will say at this point I cannot think in the last 5-7 years a lower point for jazz guitars with the exception of Gibson's. Even Heritage have not been selling but at least they can, but the boutique market it completely opposite what it was in the late 1970's and early 80's. Then you could get a D'aquisto, Benedetto, Barker, Barney, and maybe a Monteleone but there were few. Then everyone started making them and the price went way up then fell out of the sky. Someone working on a Master's thesis in Economics and Markget probably could have a great time with this business cycle.

    Bill Barker would roll over in his grave if he saw what is going on today.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark View Post
    This person contacted me too about a Wesmo L5 he had and wanted to sell for $5200. I ask for pictures and he then sent asking me for my address and phone. Well I did not give it to him I immediately knew this was a scam. A Crimson WEsmo for $5200 would be no issue to sell. I reported him to Dirk and he I believed banned him on other complaints.

    Be careful of the information you give out on this forum. I know a number of fellows here on the forum as really friends I have not met or only briefly and no problems with giving out person information through regular email, but be careful.

    On the other side of this I am still looking at Wesmo's and depending on how things go over the next few weeks could be telling. I will say at this point I cannot think in the last 5-7 years a lower point for jazz guitars with the exception of Gibson's. Even Heritage have not been selling but at least they can, but the boutique market it completely opposite what it was in the late 1970's and early 80's. Then you could get a D'aquisto, Benedetto, Barker, Barney, and maybe a Monteleone but there were few. Then everyone started making them and the price went way up then fell out of the sky. Someone working on a Master's thesis in Economics and Markget probably could have a great time with this business cycle.

    Bill Barker would roll over in his grave if he saw what is going on today.
    IMO, the archtop market is oversaturated. Too many archtop guitars are out there for sale with a shrinking amount of buyers. Pretty simple economics. Gibson seems to remain strong, but there is (IMO) a reason for this. Gibson is in a state of flux. The bankers who are in charge of Gibson have pretty much suspended archtop production. So just as when Rich Raezer died, the Raezer's Edge cabinets went up in value (only to fall right back down after Wisconsin production of Raezer's Edge resumed). so too will Gibson archtops have strong value until the current owners of Gibson or their successor resumes archtop production (and I believe at some time they will). Once Gibson archtop production resumes, it is anyone's guess as to the long term value of those guitars.

    My advice is to buy archtop guitars to play and enjoy, not as solid long term investments. And if you are not wealthy and at some time may need to sell a high end guitar for unforeseen expenses, Gibsons are a solid choice.

    For a stage guitar, a Heritage might be a good choice as they can be bought for much less than a comparable Gibson and can certainly get the job done. As my yesterdays outnumber my tomorrows, I prefer to play the gigs that are left in this life with the guitars that inspire my playing, so I use a Gibson, even on low dollar gigs. But I understand that for many, the stress of a high dollar guitar on the gig can be overwhelming.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  21. #20

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    Last edited by Hammertone; Yesterday at 04:05 PM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  22. #21

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    Wolfe's looks beautiful but priced the highest. I think a bit lower for sure and you have a great guitar but remember if you need to part with it fast it won't sell fast.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark View Post
    Wolfe's looks beautiful but priced the highest. I think a bit lower for sure and you have a great guitar but remember if you need to part with it fast it won't sell fast.

    A new one (or almost new) is still a handful of money but a bargain in any case when compared to a similar Gibson (L5/Super400) , regardless of it's vintage. Also, since I'm in Europe the market situation is a bit different :
    the prices for Gibson archtops are much higher yet, the sheer number of available models is considerably smaller and while there is still a large number of active players out there they also have cast their eyes (+ fingers + wallets, ha ha ) towards the Eastman etc. offerings. The Heritage brand is known but not very well known. Still, a player seeking a quality large body archtop with solid woods has little choice, wherever he/she lives. As of today I have always been able to recoup my initial investments in guitars and since I'm a player who is not very interested (anymore) in seeking an investment piece I don't worry so much regarding the re-sale value. I'm prudent and careful but not like a banker