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I've never sold on ebay, but I buy stuff there all the time, both guitar-related and not. I sell and buy on Reverb, and so far have had no problems. :fingers-crossed: :knock-on-wood:
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12-17-2017 09:47 PM
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I have had guys back out. There is a down side. When a guitar is relisted right away, questions come up. It can turn off some prospective buyers. There is also the hassle factor, as discussed.
On the other hand, leaving negative feedback is the best resolution. It is a duty really.
I would decline an offer from someone with a history of backing out.
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I had a first-timer guy on Reverb who bought a guitar from me, then just sent it back (poorly packed) without checking first and asked for a full refund. It was just a $500+ guitar, so I just decided to go along with him rather that create a big hassle. But it is annoying. It's the TIME involved.
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I had something like that happen once. A family member used Dad's card to buy something, it was delivered and signed for and everything seemed fine ... until a couple weeks later when the CC billing cycle came along and a PayPal fraudulent charge claim was initiated.
I had tracking information that proved that the item I shipped went to the Registered PayPal Address, which was also the CC billing address, and that they signed for the package. That shot holes in their claim that someone unauthorized used their card. It's not very often that a thief steals your credit card, has the "stolen" merchandise shipped to your house, and signs for it.
PayPal stuck by me with Seller Protection. When that fraud claim failed then the seller took a second bite at the apple by trying a CC chargeback. When Visa did their investigation the story changed, and the CC holder claimed that someone in their household use the CC without their consent. Visa held up the charge, citing that "friendly fraud", where a family member, roommate, etc., uses the card, is not covered by the card's theft protection. Visa decided that if a trusted member of the household used the card, then it's the cardholder's problem.
When someone signs for the package and claims it was a fraudulent order, they're lying.
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Forcing a sale to close may lead to even worse circumstances.
Embrace the cancellation.
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I once had a slightly worse situation happen to me. I was selling a guitar on EBay years ago, and someone bought it. The buyer ended up changing their mind, and as I hadn't shipped the guitar yet, I had no real issue with the situation so I said fine, no problem.
The buyer then ended up buying a similar guitar from someone else on Ebay, but the guitar he purchased had a non-working pickup! The problem was that the buyer accidentally left a negative comment regarding his purchase on my seller profile when I never ended up selling him a guitar in the first place (honoring his request to cancel the transaction).
I asked Ebay to remove his comment from my profile (since it didn't belong there) but Ebay refused since the prospective buyer never gave me a negative rating (just a negative comment). I ended up selling the guitar to another party on Ebay.
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That's what feedback revision is for. The guy leaving the feedback can initiate a feedback revision request, and change his comments. The only problem is that you get penalized for his mistake -- Your account is limited in the number of feedback revisions you're allowed to have, so he ends up depleting your available number of feedback revision requests. That, and feedback revisions to your account is a published statistic that reflects poorly on you if astute buyers know where to look for it. It stinks when you get jammed because someone else goofed up.
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For what its worth I filed the following complaint with PayPal. I am very frustrated with the circumstances and Reverb.com's response.
-I am filing a complaint against Reverb.com and the buyer of my itemfor a transaction that occur on Reverb.com on December 14th. December 14, 2017,after over a month of listing I sold the following item to Mr. Stephen Heath.
https://reverb.com/item/7169824-price-drop-epiphone-johnny-a-custom-guitar-with-trapezoidal-tailpiece-2017-sunset-glow
-December 14th Mr. Heath paid me via PayPal soon after purchasing myitem on Reverb.com.
-December 15-17th Mr. Heath has not responded to any of my multipleemails and requests to respond to them.
-Because of Mr. Heath has not responded to my emails, we have notcommunicated as seller and buyer as per the requirements and policies ofReverb.com.
-December 17, 2017 Reverb.com sent me an email that Mr. Heath isrequesting a refund.
-My “shop” Rich’s Strings and Things has the following Return Policystatement; “This item is sold As-Is and cannot be returned.”
-All sales are considered final.
-The buyer failed to meet the standard protocol and requirements forcommunicating with the seller as per Reverb.com.
-The buyer never contacted me directly and provide an explanation whythey wanted a refund.
-The email from Reverb.com is unacceptable as the buyer has notcontacted me directly to make this request.
-Reverb.com in their email did not explain or suggest how I recoup myfees and charges associated with the transaction.
-Reverb.com in their email did not explain how I recoup my time andefforts as I had removed the listing from other venues considering thistransaction completed.
-Reverb.com made an offer to compensate me admitting the aggravationthat I have been through. However, at this time I have no interest in doingbusiness with Reverb.com again.
-With almost 12 years with EBay I have never had this happen to me. On EBay I have over 500 transactions with100% feedback as dudey0158.
-At this time I request that the item sold be shipped to the buyer asagreed upon.
-Also for this request I request PayPal torecognize the failures of the both the buyer and Reverb.com and not allow acomplaint to be filed against myself.
Originally Posted by Wildcat
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Just to add some information to the discussion, I received a git that had the binding cracked on at the seam on the front and back of the lower bout and Reverb essentially did nothing instead telling me to work it out with the seller. Then Reverb stopped communicating with me.
FWIW at least in my one case Reverb takes a laissez faire attitude toward the buyer in the case of shipping damage.
When a transaction goes well I have no problems with Reverb, but unless it's CME, I would rather buy from Ebay as the seller is held to the claims in the ad by Paypal.
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Gary I agree as this is the feeling I am getting at this point. I like the fundamental concept of Reverb.com. Musicians selling to musicians.
Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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I have had bad experiences with EBay/Paypal. They know that if the dollar loss is small or difficult to prove they will get away with not doing what they are supposed to do (for both buyers and sellers). I have hardly used Reverb, but am pretty sure that the same rules apply (If they can avoid making things right, they will).
While these selling tools are not perfect, they beat the old fashioned way of selling things locally with an expensive classified ad.
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Wildcat, I hate to say it, but it looks like Reverb doesn't care about you, they only care about the commission. I hope that you get some satisfaction out of PayPal, but I doubt that anything good will come from it. If you put their feet to the fire, and forced the deal to go through, the best outcome would be that you've forced a buyer to take merchandise that they don't want, and I think that will end up working against you. Sometimes the best approach is to let go and move on. There are some fights that you just can't win, even though you're right.
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I've mostly had good experiences with Reverb and eBay, but I did have a seller do something similar to what BigMike had happen. I bought a guitar through Reverb and after I paid, the seller was apparently having difficulties with his PayPal account so he went ahead and sold it to CME (in person in Chicago) for cash without telling me. I got my money back but was pretty pissed off. I communicated with CME but they said they had no such instrument in their inventory. It shows up a month later back on Reverb from CME. I offered them $75 less than I had paid originally and they took it. So it all worked out. I guess...
It did piss me off that CME and Reverb are owned by the same guy, a seller backs out of a paid exchange on Reverb but then CME sells the guitar through Reverb, even though they claimed to have no knowledge of having it. I just sounded fishy to me.
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The single biggest issue in a transaction outside of closing is how well the seller packs the item.
I bpught a pedal steel guitar supposed to be shipped in an as new case.. Instead the seller must have decided to keep the good case.. As it came in a beat up broken out old case and the damage to the instrument was considerable as the case self destructed in transport. I have a wonderful permanently disfigured instrument. That sucks. I got a couple of hundred in compensation but that about covered the cost of a used case.
I have had two mail order guits both of which had the case key got loose from the cubby and was floating around in the case risking cosmetic damage.
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See below sequence of events.
1.December 16 got email from Reverb.com for refund.
2. December 19th got threating email from Reverb.com.
3. December 19th, 3.5 hours later I got an email from Reverb.com that there is a misunderstanding "I have just spoken to the buyer, and despite earlier communication, they are hoping to just have this order shipped out. Since this order has been paid in full and the buyer still wishes to receive it, we ask that you hold off on refunding and ship the item at your earliest convenience."
Bottom-line folks, if you don't hold people to their commitments as per business principles and requirements, then there is no control for orderly transactions and commerce/business to take place.
Kyler R. (Reverb.com)
Dec 16, 6:52 PM CST
Hi Rich, Kyler R. herewith Reverb Support. I'm writing in regards to your recent sale of the EpiphoneJohnny A Custom Guitar with trapezoidal tailpiece on Reverb.com, Order # 2926094. Unfortunately,this buyer would prefer to receive a refund for this order. You can issue thatrefund at this link. Due to theinconvenience with this order, I'd be happy to relist this with 6000 bumps onthe house. Just let me know when the refund has gone through, thank you! Best,
Kyler R. (Reverb.com)
Dec 19, 10:04 AM CST
Hi Rich,
Kyler here again.Please issue this refund within the next 24 hours or we may need to push thatthrough from our end. Thank you.
Best,
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Reverb.com
Kyler R.
Kyle M. (Reverb.com)
Dec 19, 1:31 PM CST
Hey Rich,
Kyle M. from Reverb here. I apologize for any confusion on this order.I have just spoken to the buyer, and despite earlier communication, they arehoping to just have this order shipped out. Since this order has been paid infull and the buyer still wishes to receive it, we ask that you hold off onrefunding and ship the item at your earliest convenience.
If you have any other questions, feel free to reach out.
Best,
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Reverb.com
Kyle M.
Customer Engagement
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This is the email I sent Kyle this morning; Also, "playing" around with my money, is unacceptable.
Hi Kyle,Several items.
- I am very upset that the buyer refuses to communicate with me directly as per Reverb.com requirements. What is the reason for that? I have never had that happen before and makes me very uncomfortable with this transaction.
- I have been on EBay for over 12 years and have over 500 transactions with 100% feedback. I have never had this happen before.
- I will ship the guitar however Kyle since the buyer refuses to communicate with me, I am going to depend on you to make sure that this transaction goes smoothly.
- I need to confirm the information below that I sent originally to Mr. Heath on December 15th; Please see below.
- Specifically the shipping address shown for PayPal. Also any other requests. I ship via PayPal.
- I will pack up the guitar tonight. However, I will not ship until I hear back from you.
- Kyle I am double boxing the guitar and insuring it.
- I will provide a tracking number when I ship.
- I do not trust Mr. Heath and has done nothing to create trust in this transaction relationship.
- Kyle, Mr. Heath switching from paying for the guitar, asking for a refund, then wanting the guitar is unacceptable.
- Buyer must acknowledge that I have a no return policy.
Kyle I will not ship until I hear back from you and that the buyer agrees to all my information shown above.
Originally Posted by teleman3726
- I am very upset that the buyer refuses to communicate with me directly as per Reverb.com requirements. What is the reason for that? I have never had that happen before and makes me very uncomfortable with this transaction.
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I would not ship the guitar in this case, unless the buyer agreed to an absolute no return policy that Reverb agreed to back. Without that, I would refund them and call the deal off.
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Do as you see fit of course, but this sounds like a terrible idea. You will never capture all likely problems with this request for confirmation from Reverb.
Forget all the imperfections in others and note that this is bad business on your part, in my opinion.
A willing seller and willing buyer are the first two requirements in any solid deal.
The buyer (and Reverb, whom you are treating as a buyer’s agent, and they are not,...) has shown that they are not a willing buyer in at least two ways you have identified.
Turn the page and get back to the business of good business.
All in my opinion since you have layed it out there for discussion.Last edited by ptchristopher3; 12-20-2017 at 07:17 PM.
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I was going to list gits on Reverb and when they DEMANDED my credit card number AND the security code on the back of the card I balked. Nope, online only Paypal has my CC information.
So, I declined to open a shop on Reverb because I've seen so many nit picky demands from buyers here and on other sites that even nearly pristine gits are challenged so they can essentially get a free tryout or a lower price. Nah, maybe I'll wait till my heirs have to deal with this :-)
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You may want to consider deleting Reverb's communication. You can't post a communication between you and another forum member here. I believe the same would apply with communication with someone else, including Reverb.
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Yup, dealt with one of those just recently. Accepted the return and refunded the $ just to avoid a long drawn-out conflict. Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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I contacted Dave a CME. He said it is 30% to sell on reverb? That sounds high and not what i read in the guide. How does it compare to ebay?
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Transaction Fee
As a seller, Reverb charges you 3.5% of the total sale amount (including shipping) after your item has sold.
The minimum USD fee is $0.50 and the maximum USD fee is $350. For example, if you sell a $15,000 guitar, we limit your transaction fee to only $350.
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Plus the payment fee which is about 2.7% or 2.9% depending on the option.
Reverb Payments | Reverb
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3.5% for Reverb, and 2.9% for PayPal. So more or less selling something for 1000$ costs you 65$, regardless of how long it takes to sell.
Ebay charges 10%, 2.9% for PayPal plus fees for posting, so it can get real pricy if your items take long to sell. Choose Reverb
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