Good microphone for archtop recording?

[billkath]

Why not just buy a phantom supply, Randy?
Buy Nady SMPS-1X Phantom Power Supply | Microphone Accessories | Musician's Friend
You'd not find a dynamic measurement mic with that flat a response curve.

[randyc]

Yes, I thought of building a supply but wanted to check first to see if a passive device was available - thanks, Bill !

[billkath]

That's a great idea-not only would you then have a known, quality 48volt supply, but would also have the pleasure of building it. I'm sure you have schematics, but consider this one as well
48V Phantom Feed Supply for Microphones

One thing-I noticed you said you wanted noting between the mic and the computer-have you a mic preamp built into your computer soundcard? I only ask as often the opamps for onboard soundcards are not the best performing, distortion and noise-wise-for the detailed work you will be doing. Perhaps buiding a single-channel transistor based preamp with phantom power would be a better choice, where you could use the better-performing line inputs on your soundcard (better performing, if they have no amplification, I mean-if they are true line-level inputs with no gain or pads). Of course, if you are already using a decent interface, with decent preamp, ignore this!!

[mattymel]

if you have a quality pre, it wont make much noise whether it is tube or SS. both will get a little noisy if you push them into the area needed for using a ribbon mic on a archtop if its not a very loud one. but as far as best application for a solo recording, that would depend totally on the guitar being used. if i was using my 1940 epi, its loud enough to use any mic you want and a ribbon might actually be ideal. but if its something not that loud, maybe not. personally, id rather hear a good pre with a little hiss than a cheap one with no hiss, the hissing one is still going to produce a better sounding recording 9/10. but im an analog fan. hiss doesnt bother me. digital does.

but one thing i would say for someone looking for a cheap pre, since i get the impression most people on this forum arent looking to spend a ton of money on recording...you can find a WAY better cheap SS pre than a cheap tube one. for a good cheap SS pre, look into the FMR audio stuff. REALLY hard to beat for the price, around $500 i think for 2 solid channels! not colored like a good tube pre to be sure, but it gets the job done nicely.

i actually have recorded a archtop with a royer 121 with very nice results. in some ways they are ideal because i definitely DO NOT want hyped highs on an archtop. which is hard to come by with modern mics. people today seem to associate highs with clarity. so manufacturers make them too bright to give them that immediate gut reaction of sizzling highs. followed much later by "god, why are my ears bleeding?"

but i wouldnt see the lack of highs as a bad thing on a ribbon. if anything the opposite. if you didnt have a pre that could provide the proper amount of gain, than why would you have a ribbon to begin with? but if you have a pre that can crank enough for a good ribbon, thats one of the most versatile mics you can possibly have. it takes EQ like pretty much NO OTHER mic out there. you can make pretty much anything sound however you want. that is, assuming you have a nice outboard EQ...it never ends...

[randyc]

The conversation hasn't drifted into this area yet but there IS a popular misconception about "noise" - many people seem to think that it's a product of poor design or perhaps parts selection.

ALL amplifiers (and preamplifiers) exhibit noise; if a perfect amplifier existed, it would still produce noise. When we talk about "noise figure" of an amplifier, the term is used to describe the difference between that amplifier and a "perfect amplifier" (gain is presumed to be equal OR noise figure is referenced to the amplifier inputs).

Simple to understand: an amplifier with a noise figure of 3 dB produces twice the noise power than a perfect amplifier.

[SevenStringJazz]

This link https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...tml#post217375 has short clips of my Trenier Excel 7 were recorded with a Shiny Box 46MXC (ShinyBox 46 Series Ribbon Microphones) Ribbon Mic->Grace M101 Mic Pre->Apogee Duet II->Logic on an iMac.

The 7-String Excel was strung with .013-.070 Phos/Bronze strings and played entirely acoustically in a 700 cubic foot bathroom that is 40% ceramic tile.

[Spook410]

Shure KSM 137

Shure SM81

These are less expensive alternatives to a Neumann KM184 which is a common first choice in recording acoustic guitar. Unlike the great inexpensive recording tools we now have on our computers, in microphones you get what you pay for. Inexpensive mic's aren't going to work as well as better mic's and cheap mic's are eventual throw aways. Also, something like a Shure 57 would only be used for recording guitar amplifiers which have a very limited frequency and dynamic range. As you have already noted, dynamic mic's don't capture acoustic guitar well.

If you're just trying to get thoughts and ideas recorded, may not matter much.

Also, you'll need to move the mic around to find where you want to aim it. 12th fret is certainly a good starting point.

[docbop]

It's more about the mic placement than the mic.

This bears repeating because it is the real answer. Once hit a certain level of microphone they are all pretty much the same especially the end result after the chain of processing. The main difference is placement and if using multiple mic's ensuring there is no phase cancelation going on. For something like this its good to have some one assist you moving the mic around while you monitor it listening for the sweet spot. Then have check recordings because guitarist move around when playing and sometimes that can create issues.

Also great sounding guitars don't always record well they can be too rich in overtones and become muddy in recording. There is a lot to recording acoustic instruments.

[Spook410]

For something like this its good to have some one assist you moving the mic around while you monitor it listening for the sweet spot.

Having a long boom mic stand and headphones can help find the right spot. Or, like me, you can have a spouse that knows microphone holding is just part of the deal.

[Petimar]

You can't beat a good quality ribbon for an f hole instrument. A Royer SF12 thru an AEA TRP is heaven!!!

[feet]

It's more about the mic placement than the mic.

its more about spending a lot of money than knowing what you're doing.

This bears repeating because it is the real answer.

this bears ignoring because it is wrong. perhaps this is your first time on the forum. more money is always the answer.



i kid. recording archtops is a specific, nichey thing. frankly, a lot of acoustic recordings of archtops sound pretty unimpressive to me, because i love the sparkle, overtones and life in a good flattop recording. which nobody does anymore, either. for archtops, people seem to be after dry, woody sounds with no sustain and subdued highs.

like someone else above, i also use a shure sm81. i have some fathead ii ribbons lying around, but its such a hassle to get them going. no patience for that. but ribbons would be a good idea if you trend toward older, classic sounds as opposed a more modern recording style. but you'll need a decent pre to drive them. and the polar pattern probably won't be friendly to most home recording guys that don't have perfect sounding/treated rooms.

my gretsch g400 has a pleasantly clanky, woody sound. doesn't take a lot of space in a mix. i prefer it to a flattop even for strummy stuff because it has a classic, vintage, yet idiosyncratic sound. full, but not boomy. i suppose it does ok for that jazz business, too.

not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but if your archtop has a floater, mic'ing both the guitar and amp could be a little more forgiving. and you can sweeten the electric signal some, or pan them out and take up more of the stereo field. or maybe mix in the di signal if you don't have an amp, or just one mic.

options. more so than actual playing, recording give you many options. expensive, horrible options. be wary.