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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizard3739
    hello again NSJ,

    I just bought an IPAD 1 to make things a little easier for the casual gigs I usually get. The good new is I no longer carry music with me because it is all on my IPAD and easy and quick to get to. Unfortunately I still have a lot to learn in terms of what the ipad is capable of but I am spending some time every on the IPAD to learn how to make good use of it.

    wiz
    Wiz, get GarageBand for iPad --it's like a $10 program. If you get an iRig adapter ($30-40--a rip-off, but whatever, seems to be the only game in town--you can get these at Guitar Center or possibly even at BestBuy), you can connect your guitar to the iPad via the adapter and a basic guitar cable and do some recording--multi-tracks, even. You can even set the # of bars and tempo, and limit your recording that way. They have various amp simulations--I just use the "jazz amp" setting.

    When I'm out on the town, and need to practice, I just plug in my Jim Hall to my iPad and record and practice away. It's fantastic!

    I can practice recording chords and practice soloing over them (i.e., first record a "chords only" track", play that back while I solo over it--basic multitrack recording, but pretty cool for working on stuff, in terms of practice).

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    So i want to precise the things:

    1. Probably everyone here on this forum will agree that playing with real musician is what is the best. And every one of us if it only could would be more than happy to be part of all this duets, quartet, septets even big bands, but those bands just may not exist

    BECAUSE there are those circumstances:

    1. Sometimes there is not enough money paid/musicians available (or both) to assembly the band for the gig
    2. No place for a band in a restaurant an so on ...

    I do occasionally solo gigs - and then play my chord-melody arrangements. Sometimes i do a duo gigs (with vocalist or other instrumentalist). But doing this is not all I'm after. I enjoy playing trio setting doing mostly single note soloing, but with circumstances given above this sometimes not doable. And there is question of BIAB.

    So i generally i posted this questions because i wanted to hear:

    1. How technically You guys are doing it (those who do it)
    2. How do You generally feel about this. Is it cool or lame? Do You enjoy doing this gig? Or you're hiding this fact not to be ashamed in front of Your friends and fellow musician's? Isn't it against ourselves to teach the restaurant managers and alike not to pay for real musicians?

    Hope this post don't steer in direction of bullying people 'who do this' by people 'who don't do this'.

    And 1 more thing: i differentiate using loopers live (which i actually do a lot) with playing with half-playback (which i never done before). And the question was do anyone of You use the BIAB - in the looper way (which it is capable of, and i'm more fond of)

  4. #53

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    Hey John Link,

    I listened to Blue Skies and it sounds real good. Which of those sound samples are using BIAB tracks?

  5. #54

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    The best sound I've found with BIAB is to use it to drive VST instruments in Ableton via LooopBe1. In Ableton, I use NI's Abbey Road Early 60s Drum kit for drums, Spectrasonics' Trilian for acoustic bass, and keys from East West's Goliath VST.

    If you don't like the built-in BIAB sounds, you aren't stuck with them...
    Last edited by loydb; 09-02-2011 at 05:26 PM.

  6. #55

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    Thanks, all of the sound clips are made with BIAB (bass, drums and piano). The guitar I used is a chambered Campbell American UK II strung with round wound 11's. I ran everything into a Tascam multitrack recorder and then used Izotope mastering software to finish them. The vocal mike was a shure SM 57 stage mike.

  7. #56

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    Terje Rypdal playing live with a laptopist. Me Likey.

  8. #57

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    Very informative thread, and it's making me rethink some of my previous ideas & positions about doing this.

  9. #58

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    There are still some alternatives...


  10. #59

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    Orchestrion was the worst live performance of Pat i have seen He seemed to be embarrassed on stage not to bring real band

  11. #60

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    Thanks for sharing about Biab! Do you have any tips approaching a Restaurant owner for solo gigs (with BIAB)? I also wondered if Gigmasters got you any gigs? Thanks Karl

  12. #61

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    I'm interested to know if any of you (or you have heard others) use Band-in-a-Box tracks on solo gigs - perhaps just drum and bass accompaniment. Like many others, I've used it for years for practice. However, the Real Tracks and Style Picker features just keeps getting better and better sounding. It doesn't take any time at all to create a nice sounding stereo background track by importing individual tracks into Pro Tools, cleaning them up a bit with EQ and some basic effects, and doing a quick mixdown. I've never thought about using these tracks for a restaurant, hotel lobby, or vineyard background music gig until recently. What are others doing? Thanks much.

  13. #62

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    Personally as a listener and musician, I'm not interested in listening to someone play to tracks in a live setting. If it's just to get the gig done and make some bread I don't hold it against anyone. I just don't think it's compelling musically. I'd rather hear what you have to say as a solo instrument.

  14. #63

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    Apparently there are a lot of solo musicians using backing tracks these days (takes me back to the 80’s when drum machines we’re getting more and more advanced).

    I know what you mean about it sounding better and better. I haven’t set that up yet, I just use a looping pedal during a verse to record, and play solos over that. But, I can see it as an option.

    Did see an older country singer/guitarist use BiaB at a gig though. I find it cheesy - but I’m not a typical audience member.

    Go hang out listening to people play where your going to be playing and see what the norm is for your area. If they use tracks then BiaB is a great option.

  15. #64

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    I could be very entertained by a great player and a good backing track.


    PS, many live pop/rock acts are basically doing just that. They roll in a pro tools system, put in their in ears, and when they hear the click it’s time to play.

  16. #65

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    About 15 years I subbed a couple of gigs in a guitar/clarinet/trumpet trio w/BIAB backing tracks. It felt stiff and unnatural to me, and I wondered if the audience realized that the three of us could leave without things sounding much different.

    That being said, they seemed to enjoy it, but I never did it again--I really hated it!

    Danny W.

  17. #66

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    Nope, not for me, ever. Never.

    But of course, ask me how often I get to gig versus guys who do.

    Like at the restaurant I once played...the owner:

    " hey, I like you sounds...but guy who plays tuesday night...he has the recordings, you know? The 1 2, 1 2 3 4? It's like whole band for price of one musician! Maybe you get recordings?"

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipBurz
    I'm interested to know if any of you (or you have heard others) use Band-in-a-Box tracks on solo gigs - perhaps just drum and bass accompaniment. Like many others, I've used it for years for practice. However, the Real Tracks and Style Picker features just keeps getting better and better sounding. It doesn't take any time at all to create a nice sounding stereo background track by importing individual tracks into Pro Tools, cleaning them up a bit with EQ and some basic effects, and doing a quick mixdown. I've never thought about using these tracks for a restaurant, hotel lobby, or vineyard background music gig until recently. What are others doing? Thanks much.
    If you have an hour or so of time, search some of the old threads and you will find some very spirited discussion on the topic of using backing tracks. I am not sure if BIAB was a part of the conversation.

    I think a person name "Sandro" had a really long thread.

    (Yep, here it is, I found it: Backing Tracks for live gigs)

  19. #68

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    Just had this surreal encounter yesterday with a Keyboarder. He has a "Ketron" keyboard that thwarts BiaB like nothing. And he's doing it in real-time - meaning - he plays and that darn thing puts a whole band behind him.

    Absolutely impressing ...

    Forget BiaB if you really want to go out in the wild with something like that, get yourself a Ketron.

    But ... Jazz not it is... guess you already know that don't you?

  20. #69

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    I've only done backing tracks on a few cheesy and well paying events where they wanted that.

    I've even played a Russian wedding once with a huge band, 6-8 singers and players from all over Europe, where we were supposed to play pop and variety stuff, but there were no rehearsals, no charts, no soundcheck!, no stress from anyone about it! I go onstage and discover that all music is backing tracks that the musical director had written and was controlling while playing, and he only had players for solos that you'd play by ear every now and then, and afterwards he'd turn you off again. Surreal gig, payed a months rent.

    But I use Loopers often, I find it to be a thing that does work live.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    .... ear every now and then, and afterwards he'd turn you off again. Surreal gig, payed a months rent.
    Don't want to hijack thread, but tempted to open a "surreal encounters on the bandstand" thread... Could provide some anecdotes...



    EDIT: I did it: Surreal Stories From The Bandstand Collection Thread
    Last edited by DonEsteban; 10-04-2019 at 06:26 AM.

  22. #71

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    Just another form of Karaoke.

  23. #72

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    I want to get a gig mimicking along to Wes cds with my unplugged guitar. It's only jazz, who knows? Who cares?

  24. #73

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    All I see this week are videos from NAMM with dudes essentially doing this very thing ...band in a box might sound a bit rigid, but if you cultivated a big collection of backing tracks with live instruments, that could shave off a fair amount of cheese. I had considered hiring some cats and doing a day in the studio to create 10-15 of my own tracks but I get more interest in my solo and duo gigs I do with a looper.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipBurz
    I'm interested to know if any of you (or you have heard others) use Band-in-a-Box tracks on solo gigs - perhaps just drum and bass accompaniment...
    I have played a number of gigs in the past two years using the Digitech TRIO+ for bass and drums, and its integrated looper for comping melodies and solos. (You may or may not know that the TRIO+ is a joint-development effort between Digitech and Band in a Box.)

    I run the TRIO+ through a Harbinger PA system, and the guitar through a Quilter amp. When I'm looping a guitar track, it is channeled through the amp, too. I get great feedback from folks in the room about tune selection, and from other musicians who stop by to remark about the tone. I have seen people walk in off the street at a coffee house I'm playing and start dancing... probably the result of the drums and bass behind me. It's a great feeling.

    That said, I've been inviting my bass player buddy to every one of the gigs I have landed as a solo artist in the past six months. Not only is it impetus to become a better guitarist, I think the crowd finds it more interesting, too. He's not always available, so it's nice to have the TRIO+ to fall back on.

  26. #75

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    I'm the original poster. I'm glad you guys revived this thread. I'll check out the TRIO+. I just upgraded my main Mac to Catalina, which means my older version of Band in the Box no longer works. Before, I rush in and purchase the update, I want to check out some other options. I can still play my old BitB files on an older laptop.

    There are a few small restaurant/tavern gigs in town that don't always want to give up the space for a full combo, and I can only play so many solo chord melody pieces. (I'm no Joe Pass!) We also have a real shortage of bass players in my area. I'm exploring some good sounding background options for these smaller gigs that don't sound "cheesy," as "basscadet" says.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdwaverider
    I have played a number of gigs in the past two years using the Digitech TRIO+ for bass and drums, and its integrated looper for comping melodies and solos. (You may or may not know that the TRIO+ is a joint-development effort between Digitech and Band in a Box.)

    I run the TRIO+ through a Harbinger PA system, and the guitar through a Quilter amp. When I'm looping a guitar track, it is channeled through the amp, too. I get great feedback from folks in the room about tune selection, and from other musicians who stop by to remark about the tone. I have seen people walk in off the street at a coffee house I'm playing and start dancing... probably the result of the drums and bass behind me. It's a great feeling.

    That said, I've been inviting my bass player buddy to every one of the gigs I have landed as a solo artist in the past six months. Not only is it impetus to become a better guitarist, I think the crowd finds it more interesting, too. He's not always available, so it's nice to have the TRIO+ to fall back on.
    The TRIO+ is an interesting piece
    of gear...would love to hear it in action in a jazz setting. There are some YT's but it sounds kind of stiff to me....but I guess so does BiAB

  28. #77

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    I've started making backing tracks with BIAB, try to only use Real Tracks, generate a song, freeze and export it to mp3. Some of the Real Tracks have regions that don't sound great, I export all the tracks in aif format into Logic Pro X and do a little cut and paste to spruce it up, plus Logic has lots of sound options for any midi that you import from BIAB. Sounds like a lot of work but once you have done it a couple of times, it is pretty easy.

    example


    I'm using DropBox to share tracks with friends and solo over each others tracks, it's easy to import aif, mp3, whatever, into Logic Pro or BIAB.

  29. #78

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    Yes I’ve done that occasionally to get rid of an annoying piano chord or something. I export BIAB as 3 separate WAV files (bass, drums, piano) then import them into Audacity, then I just silence the audio over the selected piano chord or whatever in the piano track. Then export the whole lot back out as a single WAV file and use that as a backing.

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Yes I’ve done that occasionally to get rid of an annoying piano chord or something. I export BIAB as 3 separate WAV files (bass, drums, piano) then import them into Audacity, then I just silence the audio over the selected piano chord or whatever in the piano track. Then export the whole lot back out as a single WAV file and use that as a backing.
    You can do that within BIAB using the mixer tab ... May be not just silencing a few chords here and there,
    Maybe using their separate RealBand app part of the BIAB package, which offers more advanced capabilities.

    This way you even keep control of some BIAB feature, like rapidly changing/editing styles or tempos for experimentation purposes

  31. #80

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    this is an extreme example:
    • all piano notes have the same velocity, no dynamics whatsoever. Think: clavichord or a keyboard that is not velocity sensitive
    • all piano notes have been quantized (it’s just a literal midi version of a well done transcription, no micro triplets or 32nd note triplets)
    • the tempo is even (not like a natural trio would play)

    Of course, Jarrett is sometimes, like in this example, “touched by a higher power”. In this instance, Jarrett just seems to fly. And even in this example, without volume dynamics or micro timing... there is still some flying going on. You’ll be surprised.

    Good accompaniment, computer generated or not, is made by good musicians, with care and patience. If a computer style sounds robotic, it’s been poorly made (think iRealbook, most biab and yamaha styles).

    enjoy

  32. #81

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    Can Biab play jazz chords?

    Computer says...no.


  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djang
    Can Biab play jazz chords?

    Computer says...no.

    sorry Djang im missing something, can Biab play Jazz chords or not? if it cant, what can one do to make it play?

    I have a very old version of Biab i have not used for about 3 years, may 2010 version i cant remember as its uninstalled, anyway i seem to remember it could.
    irealpro most definitely play Jazz chords.

    In fact i dont see why not its only notes, perhaps the naming of chords is a problem like no Diminished Maj7 in ireal. No Major7th #9 etc not tat the last is common at all.

  34. #83

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    The funny thing is, some styles play the chord voicings right, but bass notes and piano or guitar riffs are wrong on the intricate chords. For voicings there are special macro notes programmed.

    but, if you play tunes like Chelsea Bridge, Nica’s dream or other tunes with explicit mmaj7 or #11’s, the bass and most times piano will mess it up.

    The reason it doesn’t “stand out” like a sore thumb is because most parts avoid 7ths or 4ths. But when you have smooth walking bass lines or nice piano riffs, it becomes obvious. I used BIAB since the first version. It has always been like this.

    What I do with my styles, and it saddens me, is I avoid the nice upper structures (7, 9, 4). In exchange, I focus on the groove. This way the styles are really happening, but harmonically rather middle of the road.

    Since BIAB 2005, I think, drum styles have 120 ticks to each beat, as do all other instruments. This means each beat can have a hit, a note or a rest on any of 120 ticks. If your song is 120 bpm, events can happen every 4 milli seconds (that’s fast!) Take most “sequencers” were you only have 4 ticks to the beat, 16 ticks for each bar, like Korg’s marvelous Gadget app.

    Biab is very able to make very elaborate rhythmic styles.
    Styles with a mixture of swing and straight feels, like Samba where the shakers play straight but the timbales and snare drum play a slurred swing. And even odd meters (in a 4/4 frame, cause BIAB doesn’t know anything beyond 4/4.) can be made and sound very good.

    it’s a mixed bag. Other softs are harmonically richer, but don’t have the rhythmic potential or the variation of Biab: Yamaha plays every A-, B-, C- part the same way. Biab is totally random (with weighted patterns...), meaning you will never hear two parts the same way. And if the style is well made, it never sounds boring. And I mean, not only my styles, there are styles like Oregon style inside BIAB that are quite good.

    i love BIAB and I hate it. But I use it daily with Kontakt libraries and it sounds killer.

    Softs like iRealpro are just not there, even though they are harmonically correct. The styles are limited and rather bland, there is a lack of variation or randomness, they are boring

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djang
    Softs like iRealpro are just not there, even though they are harmonically correct. The styles are limited and rather bland, there is a lack of variation or randomness, they are boring

    i know you know what youre doing, but will disagree slightly only because irealpro is and was designed as a realbook basic back on a mobile device phone or tablet, i think it was fantastic for when it first materialised, as it gave one access to an instant repository of Jazz Standards and many other tunes be it Rock pop Classical etc etc.

    The problem starts when one compares it to dedicated software like Biab (which is a great software) yes there are limitations.
    So for me irealpro is great for what it was designed as, running on mobile low powered devices i know of several pro jazz players who use it on ipads tablets etc.
    instead of carting a book round. I might add they only occasionally looked at something specific. But as a whole knew the tunes.


    Ireal can be tweaked a bit after, if used as midi. the sounds i agree are not great, but adequate. i am aware of your work, but that takes and needs a much much higher quality,

    things like guitar trio can be exported the harmony voicing used and then played by a piano of your choice, that already gets you out of the normal piano thing/mould.

    giving away my secrets here. ha ha