The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  1. #1

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    I have posted on this before, and followed some of the suggestions, so a little refining.

    Archtop jazz box that is typically plugged into a Acoustic Image Corus or an Evans JE150 (which sounds a little like a Clarus into a Raezers Edge) with no effects other than reverb. When I play solo, it's just me and my amp, and all is right with the world. In my regular band gig, it is a small stage, g, b, d, and vocalist. Stage volume is good enough for instrumentals, but the vocalist goes through my Bose which fills the room wonderfully. A guitar amp on stage cannot. Mic'ing it is fine, but space is at a premium. I want to run straight into the Bose along with the vocalist, and have it sound like my mic'd amp.

    So I have experimented with the following:

    1. Joyo American sound - not bad at all (surprisingly). But not "good." But I may need to work with it some more.

    2. Zoom G3n - using a Twin amp sim and a 2x12 cab sim with mic on. Much better than the Joyo, but as I lay into notes (I play heavier strings with full dynamic range), it sounds a little brittle - and I have not found a way to roll that off. HOWEVER, different amp and speaker combinations may fix that--but will take time to find.

    There were many recommendations for a Mooer Radar (or any IRs) to replace the cab sims on the Zoom. Everyone raves about IR. I am looking for one range of sounds (Barney Kessel, Joe Pass, Jim Hall, Russell Malone - yes, they are all different but in the "range" I am looking for). No need to lots of choices. Once I find it, I'm done.

    For those who don't know, a Bose tower is NOT a guitar amp or cab, no matter the "presets." Thanks to the prior thread, I learned that the cab sim may be more important than the preamp (which is what I was originally asking about). The Zoom almost does the job. Mess with the Zoom some more, or might IR punch things up a bit? I have learned that learning the equipment you have thoroughly can save you time and money buying the latest "great" thing.

    Question: Am I likely to find a significant difference with IR (seeing as I am not in a cover band trying to emulate lots of different sounds) over what I can find in the Zoom G3n?

    I love that the Zoom is one device. All I really need is a good reverb (IMO, it is actually good in this department), maybe a touch of chorus on a tune or two (any old chorus will do for as much as I use it)--and that's about all I need from "effects." The real thing is the cabsims on the Zoom. It think they sound good, but I'd like to go for great--within the range of sounds I am looking for.

    So what recommendations might you have? Give more time to the Zoom? Venture into IR?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    A couple of other devices you might look into:

    Strymon Iridium. Just released, so lots of demo videos out there on YouTube. Models three classic amps - Fender Deluxe Reverb (round), Vox AC30 (chime) and Marshall Plexi (punch). Each has three cab option IRs (with the option to load your own). Has reverb/ambience (room).




  4. #3

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    The Nux Solid Studio. Models 3 power amps (EL34, 6V6, EL84), 8 cabs, 8 mics. Has XLR out. No preamp modelling though, so you'd need a preamp in a pedal like your Joyo.

    Solid Studio (NSS-5) - Verdugo Series Stompboxes - NUX




  5. #4

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    The DSM & Humboldt Simplifier. 3 preamps (AC30, Fender, Marshall), 3 power amps, 3 cabs, stereo, effects loop etc.

    DSM & HUMBOLDT SIMPLIFIER, first zero watt stereo amplifier


  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B
    The Nux Solid Studio. Models 3 power amps (EL34, 6V6, EL84), 8 cabs, 8 mics. Has XLR out. No preamp modelling though, so you'd need a preamp in a pedal like your Joyo.

    Solid Studio (NSS-5) - Verdugo Series Stompboxes - NUX
    Consider me to be a complete moron on this stuff (which, in this case, I really am) ... What happens if I don't put a preamp in front of this, if I just go straight from a guitar to this pedal to my recording interface?

  7. #6
    I appreciate suggestions, but I'm not really looking for more equipment to audition. My quetion was more about the benefits for IR vs. the sims found in a CURRENT Zoom pedal for the one range of sounds I am after.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    Consider me to be a complete moron on this stuff (which, in this case, I really am) ... What happens if I don't put a preamp in front of this, if I just go straight from a guitar to this pedal to my recording interface?
    You certainly could run it that way and get some good sounds (see Mike Hermans' demo video in post #3) but you'll lose out on the tone shaping controls and tonal "character" of a preamp. The Nux has very limited tone shaping options outside the tube/cab/mic modelling.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by joel65201
    I appreciate suggestions, but I'm not really looking for more equipment to audition. My quetion was more about the benefits for IR vs. the sims found in a CURRENT Zoom pedal for the one range of sounds I am after.
    I'm not familiar with the Zoom G3N but am scanning the Zoom website as I post this.

    I see there are effect/amp/cab patches created by various artists. Vinny Valentino and Chuck Loeb are on the list. They would be worth trying and tweaking as needed.

    Also, I see: "The Mic On/Off feature lets you optimize the G3n for use with a real amp and cabinet (Mic Off) as well as optimize for playing through a PA system or recording direct with amp and cabinet emulators (Mic On)."
    Just highlighting that in case it's easily overlooked in the menus/software.

    Please don't overlook the usefulness of an overdrive pedal set to very low gain for tone shaping and enhancing. You say something is missing from your sound when you dig in on the Twin sim sound. Most of the names you mention in your first post recorded much of their classic work on low to medium power combo amps. There's a natural warmth, grit and compression that comes from digging in on a small amp that's working hard. You'll rarely get that response with a high headroom Twin. I find an overdrive pedal can help with that. I see the Zoom has a model of an Xotic RC Booster. That'd be a great place to start - lots of jazz guys use that pedal. Bruce Forman uses one with his L5!
    Last edited by David B; 11-12-2019 at 01:23 PM.