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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Might also be worth pointing out that jazz has become progressively harder to play by ear alone, which is not to say impossible.

    Standards and old school tunes you might have to map a couple of modulations in the bridge, but by and large play melodically and you are fine.

    Bop was the first step down the road towards a more theoretical music based on chords (some earlier improvisers had been interested in this of course but it wasn’t the only way)

    Modal may have been an attempt to recover that melodic approach. It’s how I tend to hear Miles.

    But that got swept up in more complex things again.
    I think that's right. Ethan Iverson did a couple blog posts on Lester Young and he was basically patronizing Lester as just a melodic player. Like kind of charming in a primitive way. I can see why boppers wanted to escape the easy reliance of melodic motifs and licks, and I can surely see why modal players wanted escape the relentless mechanical diatonic cycling of bop.

    I like the melodic approach. I'm good at it. But I can see where it gets frustrating and I get irritated at my own playing for exactly that reason. Hard to be comfortable with oneself!

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  3. #102

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    I don’t get that Iverson was patronising Lester Young. I think he was saying we have a lot to learn from him, and this obsession with harmony over melody is only one path.

    It’s a theme with him, he says similar things about Miles, Red Garland etc - I get the impression that EI is VERY interested in improvisers of this kind. Which is probably a very unusual perspective for a pianist.

  4. #103

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    Different strokes, and all. Jim Hall pointed out that Rollins didn't like to be "led" by the comping, while Art Farmer really did like to react to Jim's ideas behind him. For me, I prefer to be the chordal instrument in my groups, most pianists really overplay, even some very, very good ones. I have always had every bit as much fun and satisfaction working behind a great singer or horn player as I ever did soloing, although I also enjoy the guitar-bass-drum gigs I often do, which I treat more orchestrally, taking a cue from Bill Evan's groups. I really like leading a quartet with sax/flute behind a singer, and diving into the collective creativity of 4 good listeners. I'm lucky to be in a position to work quite often with world-class players and have never installed the BIAB software I bought long ago, but I also like looping and working my senior and solo gigs with tracks that I create by "digitizing" the arrangements I write for a group. There is, unfortunately, little value in wishing for yesteryear.

  5. #104

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    my gigs were rehearsal bands and the odd live one...i saw many players struggling..classes descending into theory.. ok everyone one know the blues scale . lets blow usually c jam blues..more theory.Thats when i decided to get BB...LETs Play OLIVER...i was playing

  6. #105

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    I've reached the conclusion from this thread that people who use backing tracks are going to use backing tracks regardless of what anyone says :-D

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I've reached the conclusion from this thread that people who use backing tracks are going to use backing tracks regardless of what anyone says :-D
    I too have reached the conclusion that the people who don't use backing tracks won't be going to use'em regardless what other people say.

    Shocking, uh?
    Last edited by LtKojak; 11-19-2018 at 05:47 AM.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy
    https://soundcloud.com/theodore-koja...hy-bro-project
    Hy-Bro Test Sound Files

  8. #107

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    I started using BIAB a few months ago. Yes I have heard the reasons why one should not be using backing tracks only. Bottom line one reason only. Jens Larson provided a complete video on the subject. BIAM and Backing tracks can not, and do not interact with a player. so if your intention is to be a bleeding edge Jazz player that can blow with best, you need to jam with good players. However, if you are just getting your feet wet, are a bedroom player only, or do not have a strong and understanding jazz community in your area. By all means use what ever you want to use to enjoy your hobby.

  9. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdimarzio View Post
    I started using BIAB a few months ago. Yes I have heard the reasons why one should not be using backing tracks only. Bottom line one reason only. Jens Larson provided a complete video on the subject. BIAM and Backing tracks can not, and do not interact with a player. so if your intention is to be a bleeding edge Jazz player that can blow with best, you need to jam with good players. However, if you are just getting your feet wet, are a bedroom player only, or do not have a strong and understanding jazz community in your area.

    bedroom player only... always sounds a bit ambigous to me.
    bedroom playing - who knows what people mean...

    I would change it to 'parlour player'

    By all means use what ever you want to use to enjoy your hobby.
    This is really true!

  10. #109

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    i hope this thread stays open and welcomes new players to jazz via BB...yawn you say..lol...a strong and understanding jazz community in your area....takes a lot willpower..drummer dragging his kit there...in my experience a piano half a tone flat.he did try to tune it Twang went the string...always a lot saxes then C jam blues starts...nostalgia..but the friendship was there..

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdimarzio View Post
    if your intention is to be a bleeding edge Jazz player that can blow with best, you need to jam with good players.
    Fucking hell, that sounds tiring. Must be getting old lol.

    Happy to play some sympatico music with great musicians, hopefully for both our pleasure and the audience's.

    [REDACTED CYNICAL RANT]

    However, if you are just getting your feet wet, are a bedroom player only, or do not have a strong and understanding jazz community in your area. By all means use what ever you want to use to enjoy your hobby.
    That's fair enough.

    What's missing from all of these discussions of the importance of having an interaction with an actual audience. to be brutal, quite a lot of jazz musicians treat the stage like their practice room. Mea culpa.

  12. #111

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  13. #112

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    Near me, we have Jazz Friday on the first Friday of the month at an Art Museum. It is "Customary" for each player including the bass but not the drummer to take a solo on every tune. Folks clap after each and every solo. I find it tedious, but when in Rome.

  14. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    bedroom player only... always sounds a bit ambigous to me.
    bedroom playing - who knows what people mean...

    I would change it to 'parlour player'



    This is really true!
    I used Bedroom since I've read dozens of posts with folks asking "What's a good Amp for a Bedroom only player etc" when I think parlour I think about those small sized round hole guitars from the turn of the century.

  15. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Fucking hell, that sounds tiring. Must be getting old lol.

    Happy to play some sympatico music with great musicians, hopefully for both our pleasure and the audience's.

    [REDACTED CYNICAL RANT]



    That's fair enough.

    What's missing from all of these discussions of the importance of having an interaction with an actual audience. to be brutal, quite a lot of jazz musicians treat the stage like their practice room. Mea culpa.
    Christian,

    I see from your videos that you are an upper tier player. True fact most people taking on Jazz on any instrument will rarely get beyond their first foray playing with other folks. Established players are not the nicest of people and those newbies without strong intestinal fortitude may decide to never play out again. When I was starting out (40 years ago) we had real teachers with whom we jammed, and often they sponsored us on our first few trips to local jams. Now Skype Lessons or just Youtube lesson is more of the norm, so their first jam may well be truly their first jam. After their first painful experience BIAB will be the only vehicle to play along with the standards or modern tunes that they admire, until or if their confidence and abilities improve.

    Often young talented players as well as old bitter players can act like prick with both new players as well as their Audience.

  16. #115

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    whats the real concern is when the bass player solos, is the time for everyone to talk

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdimarzio View Post
    Christian,

    I see from your videos that you are an upper tier player. True fact most people taking on Jazz on any instrument will rarely get beyond their first foray playing with other folks. Established players are not the nicest of people and those newbies without strong intestinal fortitude may decide to never play out again. When I was starting out (40 years ago) we had real teachers with whom we jammed, and often they sponsored us on our first few trips to local jams. Now Skype Lessons or just Youtube lesson is more of the norm, so their first jam may well be truly their first jam. After their first painful experience BIAB will be the only vehicle to play along with the standards or modern tunes that they admire, until or if their confidence and abilities improve.

    Often young talented players as well as old bitter players can act like prick with both new players as well as their Audience.
    Thanks dude. I think your points are spot on, TBH (not just cos you think I'm a good player lol.)

    I find it a little .... sad .... that machines have replaced true musical interaction for many. I started with other people, learning, getting it together, sucking, getting better. I wouldn't change that for the world.

    I think it best to avoid bitter people... Music is a real blessing...

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxss View Post
    whats the real concern is when the bass player solos, is the time for everyone to talk
    Especially the people in the band

  19. #118

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    Not sure about this one. Played around with BIAB for a time and enjoyed the outcomes but not the cluttered desktop/workspace. Found it clunky. Considering irealpro' but wondering how much use it would get given the plethora of mp3s/backing tracks and CD tracks with books I have, not to mention extensive looping in practice.

  20. #119

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    methinks this man would love BB.........