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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    Plenty of great players with fabulous time including Adam Rogers do lots of practicing to recorded tracks. In the modern world, there just isn't the ability to jam every night with the best players in the world like there was in the '50s and '60s so you have to use every opportunity you can to work on your time and improvisation in general.

    And in terms of playing and interacting with the rhythm section, i get that and while I agree, there are plenty of examples of fabulous solos that were recorded separately from the rhythm section. There was a video floating around on youtube (couldn't find the link) of Mike Brecker recording his solo over a tune where he was essentially playing over the rhythm section as a backing track and it was an amazing solo and nobody would ever know he didn't record it live and in the room with the band.

    I mean, obviously nothing beats playing with a great rhythm section but let's be honest. Playing with a terrible rhythm section is not necessarily ideal either...

    Don't let the level of absolutes outweighs common sense...
    Good commentary especially the last sentence.


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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    Plenty of great players with fabulous time including Adam Rogers do lots of practicing to recorded tracks. In the modern world, there just isn't the ability to jam every night with the best players in the world like there was in the '50s and '60s so you have to use every opportunity you can to work on your time and improvisation in general.

    And in terms of playing and interacting with the rhythm section, i get that and while I agree, there are plenty of examples of fabulous solos that were recorded separately from the rhythm section. There was a video floating around on youtube (couldn't find the link) of Mike Brecker recording his solo over a tune where he was essentially playing over the rhythm section as a backing track and it was an amazing solo and nobody would ever know he didn't record it live and in the room with the band.

    I mean, obviously nothing beats playing with a great rhythm section but let's be honest. Playing with a terrible rhythm section is not necessarily ideal either...

    Don't let the level of absolutes outweighs common sense...
    Actually playing with a band is not going to necessarily help you improve your time. I don't understand why people think that it should? There are plenty of people who gig a lot and have terrible time..

    The video is quite specifically about timing, the ability to precisely play in time and feel subdivision. Which is not really about any of the things you are talking about

    I never say that backing tracks are all bad, except that for timing it is probably not going to help you. (Well actually it is also not good for your ear-training and ability to feel form, but.. I don't really go into that )

    I use backing tracks myself, but not for the things that they do well, and I try not to be blind about what they don't do well.

    Look at the statistics here: If backing tracks are so great for timing then why does 99% of the people uploading themselves playing over backing tracks have so horrible time?

    Nobody send me a video saying "Here! Look at this, I can do the dotted quarter note or 2nd triplet metronome exercises in you video and I only practiced with backing tracks!" It's not like those exercises are that difficult..

    Jens
    jenslarsen.nl --- My YouTube Channel with lessons and live videos--- YT Lesson Facebook page --- Træben album: Storm on itunes

    I endorse Ibanez guitars, John Daw Custom picks and QSC monitors

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor View Post
    1) How to practice and develop your "time-sense"

    Strongly agree with you.


    2) Are backing tracks good or not

    Here I strongly disagree with you, and I really think that statement "backing tracks are bad habit, or not useful" is false.


    3) Do people know how their time-sense
    I just shortened you post, I hope that is ok.

    2. I think that there are many things that you don't train with a backing track, but as the title (overstated as it is ) says: This is about timing and rhythm. I even talk about what is good about backing tracks and mention interaction and locking in with a groove....

    Ironically the fact that so many people almost ONLY play with backing tracks makes the title true even if I meant to make it extreme.

    3. You have to see that in the context of the backing track, because it is much harder to tell how precise you are if you are playing with a full track compared to playing with a click. In that sense this is not a sepparate topic.

    Jens
    jenslarsen.nl --- My YouTube Channel with lessons and live videos--- YT Lesson Facebook page --- Træben album: Storm on itunes

    I endorse Ibanez guitars, John Daw Custom picks and QSC monitors

  5. #54

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    JensL's YouTube video about not using backing tracks came out simultaneously with another guy's excellent video on the same topic, or YouTube arranged that serendipity for me, but come on, it's undeniable they have a point. The fact most backing tracked YouTube music sounds vastly unrealistic, or worse, in itself implies a huge compromise had to be accepted by the player - not in the sense that the BT is necessarily bad, but it's a weird situation in same the sense it would be weird to play a football game with a bunch of robots. I'm not sure the backing track guys always put themselves in the shoes of the listener. They are many versions on YouTube of any given standard with backing tracks, while good solo versions of the same standard can be extremely rare, if they exist at all. Because, plain and simple, it's a lot harder to do solo. Full range of the guitar has to be used. Guitar can't pretend it's a saxophone. The tune has to be treated like the song that it is, not a set of "changes" to blow over.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d View Post
    JensL's YouTube video about not using backing tracks came out simultaneously with another guy's excellent video on the same topic, or YouTube arranged that serendipity for me, ....
    YouTube does not suggest me the second video you mentioned, so could you please so kind and post the link here? Thanks!
    Please excuse my bad english!

  7. #56
    Re the app that Drumgenius sounds came from: Addictive Drums 2.
    Just noticed that they have a 50% off deal.
    Great chance to get it half price.
    Also the Jazz Drums library add-on pack will be half price.

    Just a heads up if you are interested.

    The company is XLN Audio.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by boo View Post
    YouTube does not suggest me the second video you mentioned, so could you please so kind and post the link here? Thanks!
    Here you go:

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d View Post
    JensL's YouTube video about not using backing tracks came out simultaneously with another guy's excellent video on the same topic, or YouTube arranged that serendipity for me, but come on, it's undeniable they have a point. The fact most backing tracked YouTube music sounds vastly unrealistic, or worse, in itself implies a huge compromise had to be accepted by the player - not in the sense that the BT is necessarily bad, but it's a weird situation in same the sense it would be weird to play a football game with a bunch of robots. I'm not sure the backing track guys always put themselves in the shoes of the listener. They are many versions on YouTube of any given standard with backing tracks, while good solo versions of the same standard can be extremely rare, if they exist at all. Because, plain and simple, it's a lot harder to do solo. Full range of the guitar has to be used. Guitar can't pretend it's a saxophone. The tune has to be treated like the song that it is, not a set of "changes" to blow over.
    We completely agree that most backing tracks are poor quality on YouTube. However this has nothing to do with the conclusion the backing track in general will ruin your rhythm or not.

    If you use rusty strings you may hurt yourself. This does not mean "using stings is not recommended". I hope the analogy of the logical glitch is clear.


    Btw Aebersold has more than one with Joey DeFrancesco, also Hal Leonards have the same quantity, on some of them the pianist is Hal Galper (one more reason to (re)listen Scofield's very firs debut album: "Rough House") There are literally thousands of high quality tracks of course not typically the free ones.

    Imho: backing tracks will not ruin your rhythm. They are not explicitly for improve your rhythm (but may improve a bit), as they are not for improving your ear neither (but they may improve a bit). For those skills you must use special more efficient excercises. (Good) backing tracks will improve your listening and cooperation skill, and improve you as musician, adding plus practice time for the real live band practice times.

  10. #59

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    Has anyone found any drum tracks on Drumgenius that would work well for gypsy jazz?

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by geese_com View Post
    Has anyone found any drum tracks on Drumgenius that would work well for gypsy jazz?
    Ideally there is no drum, (see Trio Rosenberg) so silence will do it perfectly :-)

  12. #61

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    Can we use Addictive trigger on the DG loops to end up with a midi loop that can then be imported into Addictive Drums 2?
    Disclaimer- I have little idea what I'm talking about.

  13. #62
    I do have Addictive Trigger but I don't think it generates midi. It looks at the peaks in the audio file and allows you to replace or mix in new drum sounds so you can augment or replace the existing sounds.
    There are plugs that generate midi from audio files. Logic can do this and I think the new Toontracks Superior Drummer 3 can do it. I have it but have not looked at it yet.

    In any case I really don't think any of those things will work. The DG loops are quite complex.....with a lot of soft snare hits .....ghost notes etc. Very soft kick hits that would not get picked up and of course there is so much cymbal work and those hits would not be picked up very well. Without the hat and ride cymbal, you've really got nothing.

    You need separate drum tracks to get a good result.....or something simple like rock or pop where there are defined hits.

    I did ask the creator of Drum Genius if he would supply the midi loops at a cost........but, of course, it was a silly question.
    Someone would make them available on the net and that would be the end of the App.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post

    In any case I really don't think any of those things will work. The DG loops are quite complex.....with a lot of soft snare hits .....ghost notes etc. Very soft kick hits that would not get picked up and of course there is so much cymbal work and those hits would not be picked up very well. Without the hat and ride cymbal, you've really got nothing.
    Ok, thanks for the response. I was hoping that since the DG loops are percussion only, that they could be used satisfactorily, as opposed to perc buried in a complete mix. All I really want to do is have one DG loop transition to another seamlessly, - and some fills would be nice. But I don't know how to accomplish this.

  15. #64

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    I was hoping that I would be able to start/stop a chosen loop with my Airturn bluetooth-enabled pedal. Can this be added to the app? I could then gig with it and my looper for solo restaurant gigs

  16. #65

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    Oh Joy another improvement in the world of replacing other musicians! I get it and it's too late, but basically Screw all Compurter generated replacements for musicians. Makes me sick!

    When can we expect Doctor's Lawyer's replacements? NEVER!

  17. #66

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    there's simply no room at the restaurant for a second musician

  18. #67

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    Is there even a real musician at the restaurant?

  19. #68

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    Sure there's room for one, me on guitar and a small speaker for drum genius and my looper pedal playing rhythm first, then soloing on top of how ever long I want to play per tune

  20. #69

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    Next week you'll prolly get replaced by a cd player, to use your space to fit in one more diner.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by saxguy View Post
    Sure there's room for one, me on guitar and a small speaker for drum genius and my looper pedal playing rhythm first, then soloing on top of how ever long I want to play per tune
    Is there any way to sync the looper to DG? Or do you intend to have them independent, and hope they stay well enough in sync for the duration of the tune?

  22. #71

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    Interestingly enough, the guitar can actually be used to play both melody and harmony simultaneously.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Interestingly enough, the guitar can actually be used to play both melody and harmony simultaneously.
    who do i look like, esteban? get real matz
    White belt
    My Youtube

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Oh Joy another improvement in the world of replacing other musicians! I get it and it's too late, but basically Screw all Compurter generated replacements for musicians. Makes me sick!

    When can we expect Doctor's Lawyer's replacements? NEVER!

    Drum genius is for practicing and not for making live music. And it does its job damn good, so please stop complaining about its existence. Also it sounds a bit theatrical to extrapolate it to extinction of musicians on Earth :-). Just a sophisticated metronome.

  25. #74

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    Really I can name many Hit Pop tunes with drum machines on them from Michael Jackson,Steve Winwood, to most of todays hits.
    It's not the machine I have a problem with. It's the greedy people who use it to cut out real musicians occupations.
    As well as making music less musical overall!

    It also is (drum programming) used in clubs by singles,duo's etc. which has further eroded live music. But this in fairness is the audience's fault, for not caring about real music enough. But please correct me if I'm out of line. By the way how do you make a living as a musician if I may be so bold?

  26. #75

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    Unfortunately, I don't have the money to pay a tiny drummer to play through headphones at 2am while my family is sleeping and I get to practice.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  27. #76

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    Does it come with a tiny bass player? How about a tiny piano player? Or do I need separate apps? How do i synchronize them?

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by guido5 View Post
    Does it come with a tiny bass player? How about a tiny piano player? Or do I need separate apps? How do i synchronize them?
    No, that's iReal. The bassist is pretty good, the drummer's kind of boring, the piano player's a fucking hack.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  29. #78

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    I play with that band all the time!

  30. #79

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    I totally get the use for recording tracks at home, etc. I'm just bemoaning that real musicians are becoming dispensable in these days of so called progress. And especially here in the Jazz community I would think improvisation is everything.

    I think John McGlaughlin said it best "Music is basically dead!"

  31. #80

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    One thing I wish about DG was that it had a wider range of bpm. There are times when working up a chord intensive piece, where it cannot be set slow enough. I have to go to a typical metronome and work it up for weeks before I can start practicing with DG.

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    One thing I wish about DG was that it had a wider range of bpm. There are times when working up a chord intensive piece, where it cannot be set slow enough. I have to go to a typical metronome and work it up for weeks before I can start practicing with DG.
    Can’t you just use one of the ‘slow’ loops of a similar style, until you are ready to use a faster loop?

    e.g. jazz swing loops start at 56 bpm and go up to 292 bpm, across the range of ‘slow’ to ‘fast’ styles.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    I think John McGlaughlin said it best "Music is basically dead!"
    Having this "quote from John McLaughlin" the genius Einstein is coming into my mind. It proves his unbelievable thinking that how many things he saw in advance, once in the early 1900s (!) he said:

    "Don't believe every quote you read on the internet, because I totally didn't say that." (Albert Einstein)


    ***

    Besides of the joke, I had the privilege yesterday evening to listen a live concert when Ferenc Snetberger and Concerto Budapest played McLaughlin's "Concerto for Guitar and Orchestra 'The Mediterranian'". I've already knew the music from McLaughlin's CD, but not this was my most frequently listened McLaughlin CD.

    It was an amazing experience in that concert hall listening together with so many people. 2nd movement is so soulful,
    we can say for sure: Music is not dead, and will never die :-)

    Btw: Chick Corea is coming to the very same place in summer, then Jack DeJohnette and Scofield, I have the tickets. And next week I am coming to a Kreisberg Trio gig to a local jazz club :-) needless to say: I can't wait. Not dead, not dead!

    Run don't walk and buy Drum Genius for android / IOS-1-jpg

    Run don't walk and buy Drum Genius for android / IOS-img3641-jpg

    Run don't walk and buy Drum Genius for android / IOS-m1-jpg

    Run don't walk and buy Drum Genius for android / IOS-m2-jpg

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Can’t you just use one of the ‘slow’ loops of a similar style, until you are ready to use a faster loop?
    For example, right now I'm trying to work through TSOYS, but all the Bossas will only adjust down to ninty something bpm.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    For example, right now I'm trying to work through TSOYS, but all the Bossas will only adjust down to ninty something bpm.
    fair enough. If you can be bothered with the hassle and you have a PC, you could record the headphone out (of your device running the app) into Audacity via line in on your PC, then use the Audacity slow-down effect to take it down even further. May not sound great, but probably ok for practice purposes.

  36. #85

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    There's also that Barry Greene video where he shows you how to capture the DG loops in Ableton and change the speed, this might be another solution. I managed to do this following his video and using a free Ableton Lite which came with some gadget I bought years ago.


  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    fair enough. If you can be bothered with the hassle and you have a PC, you could record the headphone out (of your device running the app) into Audacity via line in on your PC, then use the Audacity slow-down effect to take it down even further. May not sound great, but probably ok for practice purposes.
    Thanks, that's a great idea. I'm going to try it because I really like drum genius, but it takes me all afternoon to make some of these changes.

  38. #87

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    Here is how to convert to midi in Reaper:

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)