Dorico Notation Software

**bako** · 08-23-2017, 01:49 PM

I'm a long time Finale user but will be replacing my laptop soon for which I was expecting to upgrade
to Finale 25, or........
In Finale, there are things accomplished via tedious workarounds, and a few that I would like to do that
I can't figure out after multiple manual reads and discussions with support.
It seems there should be an easier way. I'm feeling optimistic about Dorico from what I've read so far.

Any users here, who can share their experience, especially with the latest update 1.1?

Thanks.

**JakeAcci** · 08-24-2017, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by bako

I'm a long time Finale user but will be replacing my laptop soon for which I was expecting to upgrade
to Finale 25, or........
In Finale, there are things accomplished via tedious workarounds, and a few that I would like to do that
I can't figure out after multiple manual reads and discussions with support.
It seems there should be an easier way. I'm feeling optimistic about Dorico from what I've read so far.

Any users here, who can share their experience, especially with the latest update 1.1?

Thanks.

Hi Barry I'd highly recommend you check out this facebook group: Music Engraving Tips Public Group | Facebook

It's pretty active with some people who seem to know their stuff (about a topic I know very little.)

**bako** · 08-24-2017, 10:57 AM

Thanks Jake, will do.

**bako** · 08-24-2017, 11:12 AM

That FB group doesn't have much to say about Dorico yet (being the new notation kid on the block)
but I did also find a Dorico dedicated group that seems independent of the marketing team.

**JakeAcci** · 08-24-2017, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by bako

That FB group doesn't have much to say about Dorico yet (being the new notation kid on the block)
but I did also find a Dorico dedicated group that seems independent of the marketing team.

Great. I'm just using Guitar Pro like a caveman.

**mhch** · 08-25-2017, 08:28 AM

I've been a long time Sibelius user, and I also had to learn a number of tricks to accomplish what I wanted. I appreciated the quick online support provided by Daniel Spreadbury, who always replied very rapidly to questions I had. This (#1), the awkwardness of Sibelius approach to handling n-plets (#2), and the way Avid treated the original Sibelius team made me switch to Dorico by early July, once chord support has been made available. I didn't use it much though, cos' my house is under extensive renovation, and my music dedicated computer is dismantled til September. One thing that Dorico still misses is the slash notehead, according to what I read.

Again Daniel's fast answering to questions is a big plus.

**bako** · 08-25-2017, 01:41 PM

The fact that chord support (which is so basic to writing lead sheets) was added after the fact
and not during the initial program launch gives me pause. I am left wondering what other
significant functions and features are yet to be included.
In watching the Dorico chord video, it appears to be a big improvement over the Finale chord editing style.

They offer (as do the others) a free month trial period, which I will do in September.
Meanwhile, just looking for opinions from people already using the program.

**mhch** · 08-26-2017, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by bako

The fact that chord support (which is so basic to writing lead sheets) was added after the fact
and not during the initial program launch gives me pause. I am left wondering what other
significant functions and features are yet to be included.

Please keep in mind that Dorico is meant to be a general purpose tool supporting all sorts of music with focus on excellent printed output quality, built by a team which already implemented a complex, renowned and heavily used software. So they really know what users want and need, and what is critical to design & implement first so as not to be limited later on.

It seems to me that chord support, while being basic to some kind of music activities as you mentionned, is a functionality relatively independent of the core architecture, unlike ease of moving / changing note sequences of all sorts (like T-uplets). For instance, Sibelius was limited by the underlying software architecture based on time flow hardwired division into bars and and binary notes. The R&D team knew that and many other things from start, so they put the initial focus on the technical aspects that impact later software development.

**bako** · 08-26-2017, 08:01 AM

The more I check it out, the more I believe that they will surpass the others in most aspects in time and have
already done so in many areas already. I fully trust that they know what they are doing.

One thing I make great use of for an educational project I'm working on makes use of Finale versatile transposition tools.

Finale can:

1. Transpose up or down by key signature change up or down
2. Go the same holding the notes to the same letters modally
3. Hold notes to the enharmonic equivalent in the new key
4. Transpose notes up and down diatonically in a major scale
5. Transpose chromatically up or down by all intervals including augmented and diminished unison which I've found very
useful while doing search and replace moves.
6. Finale has a custom key signature function that is more convoluted than I can comprehend.

So far, I'm having trouble locating any Dorico documentation on transposition.
I did however find discussion about a custom key signature function that sounds user friendly.

It would be great to locate a manual. I'm sure that the free month trial will answer most of my concerns but I will
wait till early September, when my schedule allows enough time to properly investigate.

**jzucker** · 08-26-2017, 01:41 PM

i'm also interested in this. I've written 3 books using finale. It's buggy, tedious and I don't care for the tablature it produces. Along the way I tried sibelius and found it no easier or better than finale. It's got a smaller start-up-learning-curve but once you get past that it's as annoying as Finale, just in different ways...

**JakeAcci** · 08-26-2017, 01:44 PM

I know that to people who do more professional-looking notation work this question exposes my ignorance about these topics, but for most purposes in basic guitar-specific education, what are the disadvantages of Guitar Pro?

My notation needs are very simple (not doing big band charts or anything) so GP is mostly fine, but just curious about what I'm missing.

**jzucker** · 08-26-2017, 01:45 PM

what about musescore?

**mhch** · 08-27-2017, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

I know that to people who do more professional-looking notation work this question exposes my ignorance about these topics, but for most purposes in basic guitar-specific education, what are the disadvantages of Guitar Pro?

My notation needs are very simple (not doing big band charts or anything) so GP is mostly fine, but just curious about what I'm missing.

The audio quality, as soon as you want to listen the music from the score you created, most film music is created this way now , using high quality sound sample libraries. Film producer now rarely invest into recording a large band, but that happens (Avatar, The Lord of the Ring, etc ..).

Of course that's not basic guitar application, the only one I can envision is having a chord chart played using a piano or organ sound, which I create from time to time for tunes there is no available BT for (original composition for instance). Could use a looper and record my guitar but sometimes I prefer hearing a piano (occasionnally) or an organ (most of the time).I was disappointed with what I could obtain from GP in this respect, musescore too.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-27-2017, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by mhch

The audio quality, as soon as you want to listen the music from the score you created, most film music is created this way now , using high quality sound sample libraries. Film producer now rarely invest into recording a large band, but that happens (Avatar, The Lord of the Ring, etc ..).

Of course that's not basic guitar application, the only one I can envision is having a chord chart played using a piano or organ sound, which I create from time to time for tunes there is no available BT for (original composition for instance). Could use a looper and record my guitar but sometimes I prefer hearing a piano (occasionnally) or an organ (most of the time).I was disappointed with what I could obtain from GP in this respect, musescore too.

What is better? Curious.

I don't do as much midi editing audio as I did back in the day, but I always used different pieces for different utilities. If I ever did something in notation software which I wanted to render as audio, I would put it into cakewalk or maybe band in a box to render, because they had better drivers for that sort of thing.

I mostly use muse score nowadays. Using the tab feature more this year than before. I'm going to have to dig into the shortcut keys I guess to decide whether It's really practical etc. Does anyone know about muse score's ease of entry versus Guitar Pro?

**Larry Feldman** · 08-27-2017, 11:59 PM

I second Musescore.

**mhch** · 08-28-2017, 03:21 AM

What is better is the quality of the sound samples that can be used with Sibelius and Dorico (never used Finale), first those directly installed with the software package, and of course the more sophisticated available 3rd party ones (several of the installed ones are subsets of 3rd party libraries).

For sure, obtaining top realistic audio requires to tweak the MIDI file generated from the notation, but even without doing that the audio generated directly by Sibelius or Dorico is better than that what is generated by GP or Musescore.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 08-28-2017, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by mhch

What is better is the quality of the sound samples that can be used with Sibelius and Dorico (never used Finale), first those directly installed with the software package, and of course the more sophisticated available 3rd party ones (several of the installed ones are subsets of 3rd party libraries).

For sure, obtaining top realistic audio requires to tweak the MIDI file generated from the notation, but even without doing that the audio generated directly by Sibelius or Dorico is better than that what is generated by GP or Musescore.

But are there third-party options for the other two in terms of drivers as well? Muse score is open source. Would be surprised if someone didn't already have it ready for integrating other sounds drivers etc.

Jake, my understanding was that guitar Pro is just very guitar specific. If you need Bens and very guitar-specific notational embellishments, it's much more straightforward for that. I would assume it has better tab entry features than most all-purpose notation software?

**mhch** · 08-28-2017, 07:39 AM

As far as I experienced there was no 3rd party sound libs for GP and Musescore. That's why I dropped their use

Tab entry is very simple in Sibelius, can't be simpler .. didn't try Dorico, mostly because I rarely use tabs .

**JakeAcci** · 08-28-2017, 09:11 AM

Yes GP is very fast for very guitar-specific things but I haven't compared it with others. If you're like, making a lick book it's probably useful. There's something about the aesthetic product of GP that doesn't look 'right' to me compared to professional publications, but I don't know enough about engraving to put my finger on it.

**jzucker** · 08-28-2017, 11:36 AM

does dorico do tab?

**jzucker** · 08-28-2017, 11:39 AM

and can you align articulations along a vertical plane in musescore and/or guitar pro like I do in this example?

Sheets of Sound for Guitar

**bako** · 08-28-2017, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

does dorico do tab?

Not yet.

Guitar TAB- when? - www.steinberg.net

**jzucker** · 08-28-2017, 01:09 PM

no tab is a deal breaker for me. I'm using finale 2014.5 and it works fine for the most part but the bugs are driving me crazy. Finale 25 doesn't fix any of the issues either. 90% of finale is overkill for what I do. I'm going to take another look at musescore...