Band in a Box RealTracks

**merseybeat** · 09-06-2009, 04:30 AM

OK I just upgraded to BIAB 2009.5 and decided to get the JazzPaks to play with!
I got a little Bossa Groove going with a little IV iii ii I progression and added some nice Secondary dominants. I generated a nice upright bass and got Wes to comp along with me! What the hell! Mr. Computer generated Wes provides a comping style and sound I could only dream of! The acoustic bass is walking everywhere, complete with string buzz and swells! OK let’s try a trombone solo for a laugh! Funny though, I wasn’t laughing! The trombone soloist was playing lines so smoothly and melodically it put me to shame!
To add insult to injury I burnt the mix to CD and played it to some muso friends pretending it was my mates band back in Liverpool! All of them accepted my spin! Then I told them the truth! As musicians they, like me, where completely horrified!

My point to this, how far is it going to go! I could easily create an entire album with BIAB and actually have very little to do except play guitar and do some chop/change editing in Sonar! However I would probably feel like a complete fraud!

I never felt this with Midi sound generation as at least midi required a certain amount of imitation skill! Also who would I credit as the band?

It’s all getting very weird and surreal?

Eddie

Jazzarian · 09-06-2009, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by merseybeat

OK I just upgraded to BIAB 2009.5 and decided to get the JazzPaks to play with!
I got a little Bossa Groove going with a little IV iii ii I progression and added some nice Secondary dominants. I generated a nice upright bass and got Wes to comp along with me! What the hell! Mr. Computer generated Wes provides a comping style and sound I could only dream of! The acoustic bass is walking everywhere, complete with string buzz and swells! OK let’s try a trombone solo for a laugh! Funny though, I wasn’t laughing! The trombone soloist was playing lines so smoothly and melodically it put me to shame!
To add insult to injury I burnt the mix to CD and played it to some muso friends pretending it was my mates band back in Liverpool! All of them accepted my spin! Then I told them the truth! As musicians they, like me, where completely horrified!

My point to this, how far is it going to go! I could easily create an entire album with BIAB and actually have very little to do except play guitar and do some chop/change editing in Sonar! However I would probably feel like a complete fraud!

I never felt this with Midi sound generation as at least midi required a certain amount of imitation skill! Also who would I credit as the band?

It’s all getting very weird and surreal?

Eddie

What were you using for a software synth previously?

**franco6719** · 09-07-2009, 03:45 AM

We must learn to play our musical instruments simply because we enjoy doing that particular activity, even if nobody on the face of god's green earth gives a damned figs seed and there are computer programs that can be hired to replace every musician and eventually will sound even better. You don't like your own playing apparently. Well, you can either stop and try something else or just keep learning because you WANT to. Nothing else.

**merseybeat** · 09-07-2009, 03:58 AM

Apparently I do like my own playing, Apparently! in fact I love it! But thank you for your psycho analysis!

My point to this, how far is it going to go! I could easily create an entire album with BIAB and actually have very little to do except play guitar

I was referring to the quality of the recorded samples and BIAB - NOT my ability to match them (Which I can quite easily do LIVE).

I was really after a discussion to find if other players would use BIAB realtracks in their projects, and if so would they feel they where cheating, especially by adding solos from other instruments!

Eddie

**franco6719** · 09-07-2009, 04:11 AM

Oh, ease up please. Jesus Christ!

**franco6719** · 09-07-2009, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by merseybeat

Apparently I do like my own playing, Apparently! in fact I love it! But thank you for your psycho analysis!

I was referring to the quality of the recorded samples and BIAB - NOT my ability to match them (Which I can quite easily do LIVE).

I was really after a discussion to find if other players would use BIAB realtracks in their projects, and if so would they feel they where cheating, especially by adding solos from other instruments!

Eddie

I don't have BIAB, so I cannot really answer your question then.

Jazzarian · 09-07-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by merseybeat

I was really after a discussion to find if other players would use BIAB realtracks in their projects, and if so would they feel they where cheating, especially by adding solos from other instruments!

Eddie

I usually play my own non-guitar solos with a guitar synth, sometimes I will let BIAB generate a piano solo. I've used Herbie Hancock, Andy Laverne and Jeff Lorber "solos".

My Michael Brecker tribute features me on guitar and "sax" in unison, trading 8s with Andy Laverne. Oh what great fun.

**merseybeat** · 09-08-2009, 04:24 AM

I generated a flute solo this morning and then played call and response with it! Your right, what the hell! Its great fun and I could never in a million years afford to get these guys in for a session!
My demos are now 'ready to release' quality (Berklee production graduate), so at least I can add proper parts in (Even if they are stock licks). Its better than explaining to a listener "And here is where the flute solo is going to be"!

Getting session guys was always a headache! BIAB, if anything else, allows you to complete your project! We can always over dub these parts at a later date!

Eddie

**peterk1** · 09-08-2009, 12:18 PM

You'll probably find after a few tunes that the BIAB lines can get a bit repetitive, so it may be difficult to really record a full album using it. You'll also have to be a bit creative to get things (especially the drums) to sound 100% authentic by sticking tempo changes, punches and special breaks in.

As an experiment, pick one of your favorite tunes and try to duplicate it with BIAB. It's usually not that easy.

However, I've found if you can get 50% real instruments mixed in with 50% BIAB you'll fool almost everyone.

Jazzarian · 09-08-2009, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by peterk1

You'll probably find after a few tunes that the BIAB lines can get a bit repetitive

Lesson #1, vary drums with Part A and Part B (Green -->Blue Square)

Originally Posted by peterk1

However, I've found if you can get 50% real instruments mixed in with 50% BIAB you'll fool almost everyone.

Yes indeed. The more real time instruments you add the better. Helps to have a guitar synth.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-08-2009, 02:56 PM

i did use BIAB for a little demo, but only the drums (i have 2008)

i think they sound pretty good. the bass and both guitars are me...

QUIET ROOM

ezFolk: Jeff matz

as you can see, my intonation on fretless could be a little better! I sort of tailor make my demos depending on what I'm trying to accomplish--i put this tune on there really for other musicians to hear as an example of what i'd sound like leading a "group." most of the time, the demo i give out is just solo pieces...while i think this track sounds good, it does feel like cheating a little...

**peterk1** · 09-08-2009, 05:03 PM

These are the best I've come up within terms of getting a real band feel with B in a Box. I had to do some crazy stuff though to make the program do some of that stuff...including playing with teh real drum wav files manually.

Sax and guitar is live.

SoundClick artist: Peter Kossits - page with MP3 music downloads

Lullaby Of The leaves
You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To
On The Sunny Side Of The Street
Corcovado (not the solo guitar version)

**mr. beaumont** · 09-08-2009, 08:15 PM

i like that pete! sounds quite believable.

**merseybeat** · 09-09-2009, 02:00 AM

Thanks guys! I have a guitar synth so I will dust it down and go for it!

You'll probably find after a few tunes that the BIAB lines can get a bit repetitive, so it may be difficult to really record a full album using it.

Yep ain't that the truth! I do however like the drums and double bass from the jazz RealPak series! They are very real! so I can use these.

Not to offend these guys but as I do all the guitar I only really require a simple walking bass line ! (Something, in my experience, hard to get for a bass player to provide lol).

I currently have some jazz A-Capella vocal tracks that where sent to me from my old studio for finishing which includes me adding the entire band! I will post one here when complete!

Eddie

**wizard3739** · 09-09-2009, 03:08 AM

I often use BIAB drums and Bass for our trio and duo gigs. To make a long story short, the nearest big city is 75 miles and there are no jazz drummers here and no bass players other than myself (This is a VERY small town). I usually work with a keyboard player (I am teaching him how to comp behind a singer) who came from the Rock N Roll/Blues generation and a really good vocalist who can and will sing anything we ask of her. The Bass & Drums (BIAB) are cheap, don't ever show up late and don't object to the music we make. I use a tablet computer with about 250-300 tunes (mostly old standards, a little Country and a little Rock) on it that I arranged for our trio and fortunately, we work almost every weekend. No, I do not feel like a fraud as the keyboard, vocals and guitar are always just us. Actually, with the deflated economy, we are fortunate to be paid as a trio and could not find work if we were a quintet.

wiz

**yorg** · 09-09-2009, 04:08 AM

hi guy's,
if you don't use BIAB et al,you either learn to play everything yourself(daunting) or find musician's(even more daunting)quality of musicianship(recording standard etc)all come into play.
cheers yorg.

**whippersnapper** · 09-09-2009, 03:54 PM

HI Pete, beautiful playing! dont suppose you have a lead sheet for cant buy me love?

**peterk1** · 09-09-2009, 05:01 PM

> HI Pete, beautiful playing! dont suppose you have a lead sheet for cant
> buy me love?

Hi Whippersnapper,

Thank for the comment.

Unfortunately no. That tune I picked up the old fashionned way transcribing by ear. Took 6 frikkin' months to learn!!!

The original is by Laurence Jouber (used to be the guitarist in WIngs) and it's off his LJ Plays the Beatles album. He has tons of transcriptions out but I don't think he ever released that one.

Oh and thanks also to Mr. Beaumont for listening and replying! Much appreciated. I used to be a semi-pro photographer and I'm constantly amazed at how much easier it is to get feedback on photos than music. Getting friends to listen to my tunes often feels like trying to get them to let me pull out their teeth.