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  1. #1

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    I must be a fool, given my history with BIAB software, but I want to try and create some original drum parts for songs I have written.

    I noticed EZ Drummer 2 has some nice features and a Jazz Midi available.

    Can any of you folks recommend a good software for creating drum scores for me to record complete songs over?



    Last edited by AlsoRan; 08-07-2016 at 08:55 PM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Apparently, the reviews say this Jazz Pack for EZ Drummer 2 is definitely for modern Jazz, and not the great American songbook Jazz.

    If you read here, you will find a few of the many reviews that attested to this.

    https://www.amazon.com/Toontrack-Exp...mmer+jazz+pack

    Also, here is an advertisement for EZ Drummer 2 packs


  4. #3

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    Addictive Drums also has good Jazz Midi extensions, one for sticks, one for brushes. One point though, you can only install it on a computer which has an Internet connection (a no no for me, my DAW is never internet connected).

    I can't understand this requirement since many other tools allow for using another internet connected computer to activate the tool, Kontakt, EZDrummer, etc ... (this works by transfering small files between your two machines).

    A jazz dedicated company Straight Ahead Samples markets great things for sticks, mallets and brushes. There is no extensive MIDI library (yet?). Instead you get a complete set of great jazz oriented samples and basic loops (cymbals, hi-hats, comping) played at different tempos and for different styles, each activated by a MIDI key. This allows for quickly creating a drum track which you can edit later on, check their video demos. For sure a good library would be a plus. Quite expensive though.
    Last edited by mhch; 08-08-2016 at 11:28 AM.
    Perfection is in the Details, but Perfection isn't a Detail (Leonardo da Vinci)

  5. #4

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    FL Studio.
    The lastest version, 12.3 has proper time stretching features now. That's a big deal.
    It's tedious and takes time but sample a section of songs you like. Loop it and put it in a DAW, in my case it's FL Studio. The stock sounds are good enough. The piano roll is one of a kind.
    Immitate every single percussive sound in the loop until you don't need the loop anymore.
    You'll have complete control over every aspect of your drum track once it's 100% midi. You'll never get that level of control in EZ Drummer or any programs like that.
    It's a PITA at first but once you establish a workflow you can work fast. I tried to use drum machines but I'm too used to FL.
    There's something to be said for being 'all midi". You're just surfing with all these drum libraries, loop libraries and all that.
    Imitate, modify, put it to use.
    It's a long road. I've been using FL Studio for 15 years so I know it inside and out. I've used it for some weird things. You can download the demo and spend time learning it. In the meantime something drum specific might be the way to go.
    I'm not up on it but I hear good things about EZ Drummer.

  6. #5

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    Personally, I'd suggest EZ Drummer 2 coupled with a fully MIDI-capable DAW (I use Cubase Pro, but you may want to check out Logic, Reaper, and others). That will allow you to record/edit audio and MIDI in the same project. From there, consider your MIDI trigger/controller (if you plan to create by actually playing the rhythms yourself), MIDI groove libraries played by actual drummers, and sound expansion libraries.


    For Jazz, I suggest :

    Platinum Samples - Real Jazz (Midi rhythms/grooves library)





    Also, I'd suggest the full Roots SDX from Toontrack, which means that you'd need Superior Drummer 2 to load those sounds. It can also use EZX sounds.


    https://www.toontrack.com/product/roots-sdx-bundle/



  7. #6

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    Can't you do all that with BIAB and save yourself some money.

    BIAB has drum sample sounds and has "SuperMidi" tracks. The SuperMidi tracks are in principal the same as the Superior Drummer video you linked, they are parts played by a pro on an instrument (drums in this case) that triggers midi. As such they retain the nuances of the drummer that preformed them.

    You can export those midi performances and cut and paste sections, delete or add midi to them, mute part of the kit (just want the hi hat part, easy), etc. I don't see how that result would be any different than using the Superior Drummer.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Can't you do all that with BIAB and save yourself some money.

    BIAB has drum sample sounds and has "SuperMidi" tracks. The SuperMidi tracks are in principal the same as the Superior Drummer video you linked, they are parts played by a pro on an instrument (drums in this case) that triggers midi. As such they retain the nuances of the drummer that preformed them.

    You can export those midi performances and cut and paste sections, delete or add midi to them, mute part of the kit (just want the hi hat part, easy), etc. I don't see how that result would be any different than using the Superior Drummer.
    Sounds like a good idea. Before I put any money down, I will give it a shot, although I am thinking it will be too time consuming for my schedule and maybe too elaborate for my brain.

    I will give it a shot but I am also going by Guitar Center and visit the drum section to see what they have and if they can demonstrate it.

    Otherwise, this sounds like it can get expensive - quickly!

  9. #8

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    AlsoRan, I'm not clear on what you are trying to accomplish as "creating original drum parts" can be interpreted in various ways.

    Such as:

    1) Using a midi controller be it a midi drum set, a finger pad controller, or a keyboard, to physically play and record the midi.

    2) Construct it note for note by imputing notes on a musical staff or midi grid.

    3) Using a "mosaic" approach, by compiling sections from prerecorded midi. This is how session drummer works and is how I was thinking you planned on approaching the task. This is also what I was describing using BIAB Super Midi for.

    Other ways?
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  10. #9

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    I am glad you asked.

    I have many original songs in my head, not all jazz, by the way. I already know, or can figure out, how the drum portion should go.

    I would love to be able to create an original drum score, and then play my bass, keyboards, whatever and record a great backing track. Then I will experiment with different guitar parts. I will probably record one version just to play in the car.

    The hopes are that maybe someday I could play them with some group. But just being able to play over them myself would be wonderful.

    I have an Alesis drum machine but I just am not good enough to create a legitimate drum version. Drumming software appears to be my answer, although the learning curve will be so time-consuming. I have always been a slow learner, but once I get it, I can normally come up with alternate methods of using a particular idea or device.

  11. #10

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    Here a demo of creating a drum track using one of the software tool I mentionned, This might help to get ana idea of how much work it is !

    The video only covers a part of the tune, so in reality it will take more than 10 minutes or so, although creating a first pass drum back track is quick. Some drumming expertise is also needed, specially when adding the little hits here and there


    Last edited by mhch; 08-26-2016 at 03:05 AM.
    Perfection is in the Details, but Perfection isn't a Detail (Leonardo da Vinci)

  12. #11

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    AlsoRan, it's possible that you heard these tunes before. These are demo's of tunes I wrote for a band I was playing with quite a while back.

    Red High Top was done with an early version of session drummer that came with a Sonar DAW I use to use.

    Sadieita, was done with band in a box conga/drums and midi input for hits and such. There was a lot of midi work for the other instruments too. I only used BIAB for the percussions on that one. Check out around 3:40 where I was cutting and pasting selections of the conga part to fit the tune.

    https://app.box.com/s/xk8839kl1kpm34zocesl

    https://app.box.com/s/g3pbaq46x1lc8f05v0gh
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  13. #12

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    fep and mhch,

    Those songs sounded sooo good. The drum parts were nice and not over the top, and more important, realistic sounding.

    I love good drumming in a song, especially when it it locked in with basslines or piano parts the way these are.

    You folks have given me something to look forward to after I get my little Jazz Blues adventure completed some time in the next couple of months.

    Thanks for sharing.

  14. #13

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    You're welcome

    My best advice is to follow the process of the SAJD demo: quickly create a first pass track from a MIDI library or from the SAJD predefined pieces (there are many, depending on the combination of tempo, style - various latin , 2-feel, swing .. - time signature). Then record bass and melody/solo, then tweak the drum track (this is where experience matters, but the tweaking can be modified along time).

    One remark about SAJD: the lack of a documentation about the key mapping. The user is left to explore and analyze what sample is provided by each key (moreover depending on the selected style or used library - stick, brushes, mallets) and create his own documentation. It takes a while.

    To be honest, I didn't check whether SAS now provides a better documentation, but I doubt so given the required amount of work.

    The drum track of the attached piece I recorded a while ago has been created using Addictive Drum MIDI library, then tweaked a little bit here and there.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Perfection is in the Details, but Perfection isn't a Detail (Leonardo da Vinci)

  15. #14

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    Update for those interested:

    Yesterday I went to a local guitar center to ask about drumming software. One young fellow tried his best to direct me but he was not sure if anyone was well-versed in this topic. All they offered was EZDrummer 2.

    Disappointed, I went home and spent part of last night going through a lot of videos and websites.

    EZdrummer 2 does seem to be the best fit for me.

    Like BIAB, they have a basic program and also have the additional libraries that you can buy under different genre packages.

    I have attached a link to the Jazz package. It has several different links on the bottom to different examples created from this library. The links give me confidence that I can get a decent Jazz backing track out of this software, although I will have to look around some more to make sure it can do Jazz Blues and Bebop. It sure seems to have most every other Jazz sub-genre covered.

    https://www.toontrack.com/product/jazz-ezx/

    I hope you can access this link without having to create an account with Toontracks, the maker of this product.

  16. #15

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    A big factor in my decision to go with this is that I can download the program and have a 10-day free trial.

    This is important because it gives you a chance to play around with it; however, I will wait until I know I will have a few days free time to fully investigate this product. Some young person will probably take this thing and run, with so many possibilities...

    http://www.toontrack.com/ezdrummer-2...-demo-version/
    Last edited by AlsoRan; 09-25-2016 at 02:36 PM.

  17. #16

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    This is taking a turn away from Jazz but I have to say that I took advantage of the 10-day free trial and I am a big fan of EZDrummer 2. So far, I have made a couple of Hard Rock tracks during my lunch at work.

    Next, I will lay a Jazz backing track for one of the Jazz songs I have created. You can make a really inspiring drum track from it to give your music life.

    I still have not tried it through my PA to see if it sounds as good as it does through my Bose computer speakers but I see no reason it should not.