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  1. #1

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    Does anyone know where I can find jazz oriented impulse responses for cabs like Polytone, Raezer's Edge, Henriken, Redstone etc. I have looked extensively but have not been successful finding any. I have some nice IRs from the likes of Ownhammer, Redwirez and Rosen but no "Jazz" Cab IRs.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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  4. #3

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    I would LOVE to have some... I loe all my IRs (Ownhammer, Redwirez, TAF) but would really like to see someone do some jazz cabs - specially old Polytones.

  5. #4

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    I'm not sure if this is relevant, but the Two-Notes people sell IR cab files at their store. I don't know very much about them and in particular, I am not sure if they work only with Two-Notes software and/or hardware.

  6. #5

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    I don't think there's a market for "Jazz" IRs.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak
    I don't think there's a market for "Jazz" IRs.
    I would say there is a market, but it's Jazz so it's too small for the time and resources for the potential profit.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoReply
    I would say there is a market, but it's Jazz so it's too small for the time and resources for the potential profit.
    No money, no market.

    Unless I'm missing something...?

  9. #8

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    The jazz market for any product is small. The jazz marker for IRs should be ridiculously small... very few jazzers use digital rigs.

    Saying this it would be very simple for any company like TAF or Ownhammer or Redwirez to grab an 80s Poly and some shots...

  10. #9

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    I am happy to announce that I am offering guitar cab ir packs in WAV format here: Products | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab


    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 1: LaVie 2X12 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection is based upon a Norlin-Gibson-Moog Lab Series L5 with 2X12 cabinet. 3 mic positions using 17 mics captured both with the secret reference power amp as well as using Mic+Di method. 6 mono Choice mixes, 6 stereo Choice mixes, 6 mono HypeReal mixes, & 6 stereo HypeReal mixes.


    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 2: ALOHA 1X6 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection is based upon a vintage 1959 re-branded version of the Supro® 1606, also made by Valco®, manufactured for the Oahu Publishing Company of Cleveland Ohio. This cabinet included the original 6 inch Jensen® Blue Label Special Design speaker. 3 mic positions using 17 mics captured both with the secret reference power amp as well as using Mic+Di method. 6 Choice mixes & 6 HypeReal mixes.

    These may be easily used in a jazz context, especially the L5.

  11. #10

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    Whats the speaker on the L5?

  12. #11

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    I get a lot of use out of the JC120, EVM12L and EV12L from Redwirez. The EV speakers in my Peterson and Mark III are warm and clean.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    Whats the speaker on the L5?
    The L5 was loaded with the stock proprietary speakers that came new from Norlin/Gibson at the time of first sale.

  14. #13

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    I am trying to track one down in decent shape to borrow or rent. It is very challenging to say the least.

    If you know anybody in the Southern New York or Northern New Jersey area with one available to borrow or rent, then please send them my way.

    Thanks again for considering my wares.

  15. #14

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    I'm quite interested in the L5 IRs, if I buy it I'll do a proper jazz demo for you

    Well, I'm in Lisbon but there are so many players here who are from the US and have Polytones. Why not starting your own thread? I bet there are people here who are generous enough to lend you one just for the IRs.

    I'm not sure you saw this thread, but quite a few people are or will be enjoying polytone preamp pedals, all they need is the cab IRs

    Polytone in a Pedal

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    I'm quite interested in the L5 IRs, if I buy it I'll do a proper jazz demo for you
    That would be absolutely fantastic to hear your demo.

    I have some cabs already lined up for sessions for the next few weeks, but I think I may have a line on a Polytone in my area. If it's in good condition and I can borrow it, I'll let you know.

  17. #16

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    Great, we'll keep talking - I'll keep you posted on the demo and you on the Poly IRs. You really can't imagine how happy you would make if you could get old Polys impulses!

  18. #17

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    Hi again George,

    I have great news!!

    The past couple or weeks, I was hard at work capturing and fine tuning this collection of cabinet impulse responses for guitar and bass based upon a Polytone Mini Brute II from the 1980's. Cab features an original, in excellent shape, Polytone 1X12 proprietary speaker.


    17 mics used in 3 ideal positions each (56 total single mic capture files per sample rate/file format). HypeReal mixes with PZM and 9 choice mixes without PZM. 6 Fractal preset/cab combos.


    Available in Fractal UR & standad syx format, WAV file format (variety of sample rates/bit depths), or a combo pack of both here: Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 4: POLY 1X12 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab


    Here's a demo where I play both guitar and bass using the ir's and one of the presets in the collection.



    Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.


    Cheers,
    Dr B

  19. #18

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    Amazing!!

    I'm buying and testing them today.

    THANKS!!

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    Amazing!!

    I'm buying and testing them today.

    THANKS!!
    Awesome Jorge, looking foward to your evaluation, if it gets any close to the real thing i hope its possible to unite anyone and all who wants participate, dime in and persuade Dr.B to to a poly package with pre sonic circuit impulses - baby (8"), teeny (10"), mini (12" and 15").

  21. #20

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    How Deep Is The Ocean - Bonkers Polytone IR.wav - Google Drive

    Here's a small clip. It's not mastered, LANDR was adding a lot of noise, no idea why. I had to change the EQ on my rig but I really like these IRs, they sound quite different from regular guitar cab IRs, and it makes my rig a lot closer to a Polytone.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    How Deep Is The Ocean - Bonkers Polytone IR.wav - Google Drive

    Here's a small clip. It's not mastered, LANDR was adding a lot of noise, no idea why. I had to change the EQ on my rig but I really like these IRs, they sound quite different from regular guitar cab IRs, and it makes my rig a lot closer to a Polytone.
    Very cool, Jorge!

    Do you mind if I feature your comments and clip on my site?

    Did you use single mic ir's, your own ir mix, the choice ir mixes, or the HypeReal ir mixes?

    With my monitoring situation and having the actual amp in the same room to a/b against, the 414 HypeReal mix was a clone of the real amp I was able to procure. The other ir's were what I would call "engineering interpretations" one would make of the instrument/amp to situate well in a live or recording mix.

    I ask these questions as I am curious. Different players find each type of ir capture I do more "real" representations of a given cab based on which ir loader, amp or amp sim, and monitoring situation they use.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzmus
    Awesome Jorge, looking foward to your evaluation, if it gets any close to the real thing i hope its possible to unite anyone and all who wants participate, dime in and persuade Dr.B to to a poly package with pre sonic circuit impulses - baby (8"), teeny (10"), mini (12" and 15").
    If someone has access to the 8", 10", and 15" Polytone combos and lives in the southern New York or Northern NJ area ((USA), then I will trade that person ir files for the ability to borrow the combos for a couple of days per combo in order to capture impulse responses of the cabs in my work space. Please contact me on my site for more details.

    If you live farther than and would be willing to ship me the combo back and forth at your cost, I would be willing to make the same arrangement.

    The current challenge I have is I can find no sound reinforcement place or friend in my area that has any of the other sizes of Polytone combo for rent. Without a good example, it is impossible for me to make ir's of the desired cabinet/speaker combo.

    Regarding capturing the sonic circuit as isolated ir's, this generally does not turn out well in my experience as no matter how many step variations one captures of the tone pots in altering the signal, there is usually a magical combination in between setting that one wishes the person captured. That part is kind of a rabbit hole for the player as much as capturing 12 or 18 positions of a given mic on a given cabinet. After a bit of time, you lose all sense of perspective.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Bonkers
    Very cool, Jorge!

    Do you mind if I feature your comments and clip on my site?

    Did you use single mic ir's, your own ir mix, the choice ir mixes, or the HypeReal ir mixes?

    With my monitoring situation and having the actual amp in the same room to a/b against, the 414 HypeReal mix was a clone of the real amp I was able to procure. The other ir's were what I would call "engineering interpretations" one would make of the instrument/amp to situate well in a live or recording mix.

    I ask these questions as I am curious. Different players find each type of ir capture I do more "real" representations of a given cab based on which ir loader, amp or amp sim, and monitoring situation they use.
    It's the M160 / SM81 mix, not sure if the Choice Mix or the Hype Real... I need to connet the Amplifire to the PC to solve the mystery

    Please, use the clips and comments. I hope to do more clips soon, my last few days were busy and it took me quite a while to adjust the eq to fit these new IRs, I only achieved what I wanted yesterday, later in the evening. I hope to play and record more in the next few days!

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Bonkers
    If someone has access to the 8", 10", and 15" Polytone combos and lives in the southern New York or Northern NJ area ((USA), then I will trade that person ir files for the ability to borrow the combos for a couple of days per combo in order to capture impulse responses of the cabs in my work space. Please contact me on my site for more details.

    If you live farther than and would be willing to ship me the combo back and forth at your cost, I would be willing to make the same arrangement.

    The current challenge I have is I can find no sound reinforcement place or friend in my area that has any of the other sizes of Polytone combo for rent. Without a good example, it is impossible for me to make ir's of the desired cabinet/speaker combo.

    Regarding capturing the sonic circuit as isolated ir's, this generally does not turn out well in my experience as no matter how many step variations one captures of the tone pots in altering the signal, there is usually a magical combination in between setting that one wishes the person captured. That part is kind of a rabbit hole for the player as much as capturing 12 or 18 positions of a given mic on a given cabinet. After a bit of time, you lose all sense of perspective.
    I do hope someone sees this and can lend you the amps - I would love more Polytone files I think what jazzmus meant is for you to find old Polys cabs (pre sonic circuit) to do these new files - older ones are regarded as better sonding!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    I do hope someone sees this and can lend you the amps - I would love more Polytone files I think what jazzmus meant is for you to find old Polys cabs (pre sonic circuit) to do these new files - older ones are regarded as better sonding!
    Yes exactly Jorge, ill contact the Dr. about this next week to sort the details and likely ask forumites here to hopefully help get him hooked up with various models, outta def be plenty polytones in his region/area, im in Denmark so im kinda restrained.
    I gotta say so far that for a virtual cab that it sounds the closest to a poly I've heard besides the real deal irl and it would great fun help make it happen.

  27. #26

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    Yes, let's make it happen!

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzmus
    Yes exactly Jorge, ill contact the Dr. about this next week to sort the details and likely ask forumites here to hopefully help get him hooked up with various models, outta def be plenty polytones in his region/area, im in Denmark so im kinda restrained.
    I gotta say so far that for a virtual cab that it sounds the closest to a poly I've heard besides the real deal irl and it would great fun help make it happen.
    That's awesome to hear and thanks for the feedback.

    I would love to help you out as a community if someone can get me access to the cabs.

    I have been able to clone a variety of cabs with my gear and techniques, so I am pretty confident I could do the same with these.

  29. #28

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    Definitely following this thread!!!

  30. #29

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    I'm following this thread as well. The jazz market may be small but not entirely insignificant. More and more jazz guitarists are turning to modeling amps.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    I'm following this thread as well. The jazz market may be small but not entirely insignificant. More and more jazz guitarists are turning to modeling amps.
    We are? They are? Who are?

    I recall Jack Zucker and Jorge on this forum and am probably forgetting others who have talked about their digital modeling rigs. I even sometimes do some cheap-and-cheerful modeling type stuff myself using my Zoom MS100BT pedal with a powered speaker, when I want a really convenient way to go to a PA; for most gigs, though, it's a lot easier to just bring a combo that sounds like what I want the modeled rig to sound like- setup is half the time. Of course, I am also not using more than one sound, I lean towards the Jim Hall school of tone to a very great extent.

    Thus far I am not aware of many- if any- well-known/"famous" players using modeling (although Metheny might, he seems like the most likely). That is more of a comment on my awareness than on the use of these devices, I suspect. At least in all the videos I see filmed recently, I am still seeing Fender amps of various types primarily, and some boutique type amps like AI, Henriksen, etc. But I am not seeing jazz guitarists with Elevens, Amplifires, etc. I must be watching the wrong vids!

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    We are? They are? Who are?

    I recall Jack Zucker and Jorge on this forum and am probably forgetting others who have talked about their digital modeling rigs. I even sometimes do some cheap-and-cheerful modeling type stuff myself using my Zoom MS100BT pedal with a powered speaker, when I want a really convenient way to go to a PA; for most gigs, though, it's a lot easier to just bring a combo that sounds like what I want the modeled rig to sound like- setup is half the time. Of course, I am also not using more than one sound, I lean towards the Jim Hall school of tone to a very great extent.

    Thus far I am not aware of many- if any- well-known/"famous" players using modeling (although Metheny might, he seems like the most likely). That is more of a comment on my awareness than on the use of these devices, I suspect. At least in all the videos I see filmed recently, I am still seeing Fender amps of various types primarily, and some boutique type amps like AI, Henriksen, etc. But I am not seeing jazz guitarists with Elevens, Amplifires, etc. I must be watching the wrong vids!
    Here are two to check out:


  33. #32

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    Holdsworth is hardly mainstream, and Mitchell sounds...well....distorted.

    Sound more like rawk stuff to my ears.

  34. #33

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    Thanks for the IRs, i will check them out..i play jazz and have been using Fractal AxeFX since 09.


    How about Kurt Rosenwinkle? He uses Fractal audio and Kemper.
    Last edited by jazzgtrl4; 05-21-2017 at 12:06 PM.

  35. #34

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    what does being famous have to do with anything?

  36. #35

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    As for players who use modelling... on the forum, besides me and Jack, FrankLearns uses a Kemper, I believe Henry uses an Axe-FX, and a few more have mentioned using modelling that I don't recall now. Still, a minority...

    As for pros - Kurt Rosenwinkel and Tim Miller are the only ones I remember... Jens Larsen uses an Axe-FX on Youtube too. Again, still a minority!

  37. #36

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    Thanks to all of you for the great thread and your input. Also thanks for the Poly-IR, definitely thinking of getting it

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by jezeline
    Thanks to all of you for the great thread and your input. Also thanks for the Poly-IR, definitely thinking of getting it
    New Demo posted here from another satisfied customer using the files:
    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 4: POLY 1X12 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

  39. #38

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    Here's something else that may interest all of you.

    Not often does one get to capture cabinets that were hand selected by a jazz legend such as Rufus Reid for a world renowned program like William Paterson University of NJ Jazz Studies program. Professor Reid selected these cabs to replace the Polytone 102 cabs for the guitar and bass players that were in need of constant repairs by the mid 1990's.


    I was lucky enough that my alma mater let me borrow these cabs to capture at the Soundlab:



    • WMAN 1Based upon a 1995 Pre-Fender® SWR® Workingman's 12
      Combo™ 1 X 12 plus tweeter Bass Amp Cabinet, which included the original 1X12
      Celestion® K12T-200™ proprietary speaker and SWR® tweeter that was used by
      guitarists and bassists.
    • WMAN 2Based upon a 2003 Fender®-era SWR® Workingman's 12
      Combo™ 1 X 12 plus tweeter Bass Amp Cabinet. which included the original 1X12
      Fender® unlabelled proprietary speaker and SWR® tweeter that was used by
      guitarists and bassists.

    Between the two cabs there are 10 cab mixes, 216 single mics based on 3 positions of 17 mices. For people that invest in the Combo pack or Fractal pack, there are 6 presets that illustrate different amp/cab mix and effects pairings.


    More details, pictures, and demos, here: Dr Bonkers Bass Cab Classics Volume 8: WMAN 1+2 1X12 Bass Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

  40. #39

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    Perhaps this will interest you, I just captured a mid-1970's Polytone Pro Series 1X15 & 2X8 cab with all original drivers.

    Details photos and clips may be found here: Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 6: POLY 1X15 + 2X8 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

  41. #40

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    Hey Dr. Bonkers, I bought the Polytone 1x12 awhile back. Any chance of adding 88khz files to the set?

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr
    Hey Dr. Bonkers, I bought the Polytone 1x12 awhile back. Any chance of adding 88khz files to the set?
    I have added 88.2 KHz in 2 different bit depths to both of these cab packs now:

    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 4: POLY 1X12 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab
    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-Oddities™ Volume 6: POLY 1X15 + 2X8 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

    If you registered with my site, then you should be able to download the expanded versions of the cab packs that you previously purchased for free.

    I highly encourage those that liked the 1X12 to try the 1X15+2X8.

    They are not that many good original Polytones that I have had access to record IR files from, so I hope those users that like Polytone IR files do take advantage of both cab packs.

    More patronage allows me the possibility to track down more variant Polytones or other jazz amps in decent shape, such as this one whose 88.2 KHz files have not been added yet (probably in the next couple of days):

    Dr Bonkers Bass Cab Classics Volume 8: WMAN 1+2 1X12 Bass Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

    Please click on the tabs and pull down menus on my site for more info.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Bonkers
    I have added 88.2 KHz in 2 different bit depths to both of these cab packs now:

    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-OdditiesImpulse response files for jazz cabs Volume 4: POLY 1X12 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab
    Dr Bonkers Guitar Cab-OdditiesImpulse response files for jazz cabs Volume 6: POLY 1X15 + 2X8 Guitar Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

    If you registered with my site, then you should be able to download the expanded versions of the cab packs that you previously purchased for free.

    I highly encourage those that liked the 1X12 to try the 1X15+2X8.

    They are not that many good original Polytones that I have had access to record IR files from, so I hope those users that like Polytone IR files do take advantage of both cab packs.

    More patronage allows me the possibility to track down more variant Polytones or other jazz amps in decent shape, such as this one whose 88.2 KHz files have not been added yet (probably in the next couple of days):

    Dr Bonkers Bass Cab Classics Volume 8: WMAN 1+2 1X12 Bass Cabinet IR Collection | Dr. Bonkers Sound Lab

    Please click on the tabs and pull down menus on my site for more info.
    Thanks Doctor B!

  44. #43

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    Glad to help.

    BTW: The SWR now has 88.2 KHz files posted as well.

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonmi3
    Does anyone know where I can find jazz oriented impulse responses for cabs like Polytone, Raezer's Edge, Henriken, Redstone etc. I have looked extensively but have not been successful finding any. I have some nice IRs from the likes of Ownhammer, Redwirez and Rosen but no "Jazz" Cab IRs.
    to me the ownhammer JBL, EV12L and SRO cabs sound way better than the so called "jazz" cabs. The real jazz cabs were the cabs of yesteryear and the ownhammers capture those. They also have celestion gold and a mismatched matchless 2x12 that sound great.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    to me the ownhammer JBL, EV12L and SRO cabs sound way better than the so called "jazz" cabs. The real jazz cabs were the cabs of yesteryear and the ownhammers capture those. They also have celestion gold and a mismatched matchless 2x12 that sound great.
    I don't find any record that you purchased & tried my files.

    Did you actually use them? I am asking because I am just curious if you did try my files and found something lacking in them.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Bonkers
    I don't find any record that you purchased & tried my files.

    Did you actually use them? I am asking because I am just curious if you did try my files and found something lacking in them.
    No, i never downloaded or tried your files. All I saw of yours was the polytone cabs and I'm not interested nor have I cared too much for polytone cabs. They were flimsy constructed with very inexpensive speakers. The only polytone I really liked was one where I replaced the speaker with a JBL. Even though the JBL was a much higher impedance, it was so much more efficient that it sounded great!

    I purchased the ownhammer IRs and love them. I wasn't replying to you but was just pointing out to the OP that the ownhammer cabs sound great for jazz.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    to me the ownhammer JBL, EV12L and SRO cabs sound way better than the so called "jazz" cabs. The real jazz cabs were the cabs of yesteryear and the ownhammers capture those. They also have celestion gold and a mismatched matchless 2x12 that sound great.
    I own the following OH offering:

    212-GTR MAR-66 Multi-Speaker Collection - $49.99 : OwnHammer.com - Store

    My favorites are, depending what kind of tone I'm asked for (I collaborate with a recording studio doing mostly jingles and ambient music for tv series and soap operas), are the following:
    * Altec 417
    * EVM-S
    * ALN-SLV
    * G65-RI

    I normally use the Low Gain Mix, even using OD, which is actually very seldom.

    I've built a specific preset of a vintage plexi setup using Behringer V-Amp 3's Brit Classic model with the Mid Gain Mix of the G65-RI speaker, loaded into Scuffham Amps S-Gear Pro Convolver as a plug-in, bypassing the amps and fx section, to play '70s Classic Rock.

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak
    I own the following OH offering:

    212-GTR MAR-66 Multi-Speaker Collection - $49.99 : OwnHammer.com - Store

    My favorites are, depending what kind of tone I'm asked for (I collaborate with a recording studio doing mostly jingles and ambient music for tv series and soap operas), are the following:
    * Altec 417
    * EVM-S
    * ALN-SLV
    * G65-RI

    I normally use the Low Gain Mix, even using OD, which is actually very seldom.

    I've built a specific preset of a vintage plexi setup using Behringer V-Amp 3's Brit Classic model with the Mid Gain Mix of the G65-RI speaker, loaded into Scuffham Amps S-Gear Pro Convolver as a plug-in, bypassing the amps and fx section, to play '70s Classic Rock.
    Once S-Gear has a better interface for managing large numbers of third-party IRs I’m going to have to check this pack out. How many GB of disk space does that beast use?