The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Why does reality almost always fall short of the ideal? Well, no one is perfect. But I was thinking about improving my recording equipment. Not that I can afford it - that itself may be the greatest impediment to an ideal rig. But, if I could, what would an ideal recording rig look like? I'm thinking for live instruments like guitar or piano, vocals, and percussion. Microphones, DAWs, USB interfaces, computer, preamps...am I leaving anything out?

    A dose of reality - I currently record to standalone Korg D- 1200 digital recorder that is aging and acting up. Via a $60 MXL large condenser mic directly into the Korg pre-amps. That's it. Any signal processing happens within the Korg. Then, I record a CDR and use that in sound systems and my computers - a PC home computer and a MacBook some years old. Apart from the fact that I could use some rejuvenation, my system definitely does.

    So we talk here ideal and reality based system recommendations. PC versus Mac? Both? To complicate my situation my legacy version of Sibelius is on my PC. But if I got Logic 10 Pro and an interface (here's that reality problem thing again), I probably would not need Sibelius. ....uggh! This gets complicated.

    Perhaps some of you who have experience could help me with your recommendations. I think I need at least a better mic....

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  3. #2

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    You could partition your hard drive to run Windows and then keep your Sibelius. I also use Logic Pro X

  4. #3

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    For me ease of recording is really important. By that I mean a system where everything is set up and ready to go. I also really like the interface for mixing and editing that one gets with computer recording software.

    First off, I use a 12 channel mixer that has four outs/ins with my Delta 44 card of my PC.

    I have a midi keyboard wired to a usb in on my computer and the stereo audio cables are plugged into my mixer.

    I have a couple mics on mic stands plugged into my mixer.

    I have an amp modeller plugged into my mixer (also stereo, two cables).

    I have the midi out of my drum kit going to my computer and the audio to my mixer (also stereo, two cables).
    _______________

    So with all that I can record keyboard, vocals, guitar, bass and all I have to do is start my computer, open my Reaper software, tune up, flip some switches and I'm recording. (I record my electric guitar and bass via the modeller. I mic my acoustic guitars.)

    Having mulitiple inputs from my mixer interfaced with my PC is what makes this ease of recording possible.
    Last edited by fep; 10-31-2015 at 08:02 PM.

  5. #4

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    Interesting. When I got the Korg years ago it was to avoid dealing with compatibility issues and things like that. Right now, my teenage son graduating from high school this year spends mucho time on the home PC where my Sibelius is domiciled and where I use a cheapo Yamaha keyboard synth to input notes and orchestration. This PC is on a different floor from where I record with the Korg. I think I would like to consolidate a system around my MacBook, about four or five years old now and not the "Pro" version. That would involve buying a decent USB interface. But at least I would have access to a portable studio setup, assuming I go Logic Pro X. The investment would easily be in the neighborhood of several hundred, especially if I upgrade my condenser mic. But it would really open up more recording and editing options, hopefully including better percussion possibilities.

    Am I the only guy working with old equipment? I have a few problems with the Korg for the past year or so that makes me think now would be a good time to go to a computer based DAW.

    Btw, Frank, sounds like your mixer is important to the equation.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Btw, Frank, sounds like your mixer is important to the equation.
    Yes because I like that I don't have to plug anything in after I had it all set up. I'm using 8 of the 12 channels, so an 8 channel would work for me.

    This all could also be accomplished with a soundcard/audio interface that had eight inputs in which case I wouldn't need the mixer.

  7. #6
    I currently don't own, but have unlimited access to, a PreSonus StudioLive 16.0.2 mixer/interface. We use it for live sound where I work, but it's also excellent for recording (which we have done on occasion for retirement ceremonies and the like). Very easy and intuitive to work with, plus the version that's a step or two above is extensible, so you could have 2 running together as a 32-channel interface / mixer if you needed it.

    Their bundled software is just OK...I much prefer ProTools or Logic. But I have been known to use Audacity with decent results too, so it's all in getting used to the GUI as far as usability goes, IMO.

    Microphone-wise, I have a few good-ish ones. I have a couple of SM57s, and a few older M-Audio mics (Solaris and a Pulsar II matched pair for stereo imaging).

    I'm *not* a recording expert, in fact I consider myself a bumbling hack, but it's not for lack of decent equipment.

    Another thing to consider is "most ideal for which situation?". For a mobile studio, a laptop, decent interface, and a couple of good mics is really all you would need. At home, my interface is a PreSonus Audiobox 1818VSL. I use a Sansamp RBI for bass direct, and I'm still shopping around / trying to decide if I need/want an outboard mic preamp. Probably a PreSonus Studio Channel or TubePRE or something of the sort if I get one.

    This setup wouldn't stand up to a full-time pro studio environment, but for recording things at home or on the road, it works fantastically.

  8. #7

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    My ideal rig is the one I can afford so that's what I have.
    iPad Air 128gb
    Focurite iTrack Dock
    Event Alp 5 monitors
    SM57, AT2020
    Line 6 49 Keys
    lots of apps most notably for recording: Cubasis, Auria, Bias Amps and FX

  9. #8

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    Larry - How are the notation capabilities of Logic Pro X?

  10. #9

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    I use a computer and I am ashamed to say that I spent a lot of money on it.

    It is an Intel core i7-590x CPU@3GHz
    32 Gig of Ram
    2x500 gig SSDs
    4x1000 gig SATA drives
    RME Fireface UC soundcard
    3x22" monitors
    2x Mackie HR824 Monitors + 2x Dynaudio BM5's
    Kemper Profiling Amp
    Nektar Panorama Control Surface
    Native instruments Komplete 10
    Complete uhe and too much other software - at least that is what my wife would say.
    3x UAD PCIe cards + a fair number of vst efx
    Cubase 8.5.20
    sE2200a 11c Mic amongst others

    It is a beast of a system and I love working with it. After all these years - and I go back to Cassette recording with an Atari and an Emu sampler - it means I have the world at my fingertips. However, there was something about thiose day where there were limitations. You really learn't about your gear. You were probably much more creative. The ideal recording rig does not make you a better musician. It gives you choices - sometimes too many. You have to remember that it is about the music. A beautiful recording of rubbish is still rubbish. A badly recorded masterpice is still a master piece.

    I would say that the perfect recording system is one that you have mastered and don't have to think about when you are creating a piece of music.

  11. #10

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    My home recording equipment is suffering. My Korg D1200 digital standalone recorder is experiencing problems with dropout of the Left stereo bus intermittently and now a buzzing sound that may spell the end. I'm not sure it can be repaired or if it is worth it to ship it to Korg for that purpose. A downer.

    I am down to recording with my Tascam DR- 05 digital recorder which is amazing for its size and price but does not do multi-tracking. But this necessity is perhaps the mother of invention as the saying goes. Yesterday afternoon I recorded a version of All The Things You Are in one pass, having previously recorded a solo piano track on my cheapo Yamaha keyboard synth. I'm going to post a separate thread on the experience for the humor of it under this section, called "the anatomy of a recording". Sounds a bit pretentious., but it will be for a laugh.

  12. #11

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    I have my ideal rig, more or less. Too complicated to go into at the moment.

  13. #12

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    Do come back and explain it, Henry, though I know you have a studio or two, if I recall.

    I have a living room and unfortunately, a seriously malfunctioning Korg standalone recorder. I could use some sage advice about a good setup for computer. I have a MacBook and a PC, but like me they are getting older. No DAW at the moment.

  14. #13

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    Look at my gear page. Gear | Henry RobinettThis is not for you. But in terms of MY ideal recording rig, it's all there. That is way too overblown for your uses. I use DAW Digital Performer and Metric Halo audio interfaces. Normally three, but I have 5. They are being updated to ridiculous "future proof" status. But I can't talk about that.

    I have to be able to record full bands to small one person (me) projects. I practice in my studio, so at any moment I can just hit record. I'm set up to record 32 tracks but can do more! I've never come close to having to. I record, mix and master professionally.

  15. #14

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    And Jay, once again this does NOT relate to you or your quest for a new idea recording rig. But it inspired me to write a little quick page on my methods in the studio. Its a very unique set up and method.

    My Recording and Mixing methods | Henry Robinett

  16. #15

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    I record in on the PC with Adobe Audition (mainly because it comes in the bundle with all the Adobe software: Photoshop, Illustrator, and so on). It's a great DAW, but doesn't have midi. When I need midi I use Cubase LE 4.

    I have 2 Focusrite interfaces. One is a 2 channel, model 2i2. The other one has 8 mic inputs and some line in and out, digital in and out, model 18i20.

    I keep the small one back in my home office for recording one or two things at a time, like guitar with 2 mics, or guitar and vocal with one mic on each. The big one stays in the living room with the drum kit and stand up bass. So I can bring my laptop into the living room and record a 3-piece band live.

    I have 2 dynamic mics, Shure SM57 and Beta 58A (Three if you count the Peavy PVi100, and we do count it because we do use it wherever needed). Those also go in my live gigging kit, the 57 to mic the guitar amp, and the 58 for vocals. At home I use the 57 on snare drum and the 58 on kick (it's not the best for kick, but it's all I have at the moment).

    Then 3 large diaphragm condenser mics, Rode NT2a, MXL 2006, and MXL 2010. The 2010 is a multi-pattern version of the 2006. With the 2010 in cardiod mode they sound alike, so that's my stereo pair for whatever, drum overheads, acoustic guitar, etc. The Rode is the latest addition. I've tried it on vocals--sounds good. Now it's set up on the guitar amp along with the SM57. I'll be testing that out in a few days when I get caught up on other work.

    The monitors, back in the small room are Alesis 520 M1Active. They sound great for the price. Could use a sub-woofer though.

    Headphones, my main ones are Superlux 668B, about $50, but they sound like 4 times that. Then I have a closed back set, for the drummer--loud with good sound isolation. And there's another cheap set, sort of a spare in case somebody doesn't bring a pair.

    I haven't bought a single plugin yet. We recently switched to 64-bit version of the DAW, so had to track down good free 64-bit plugins. I'm using the built in stuff in Audition which includes some awesome iZotope stuff. The free stuff is from Focusrite (came with the interfaces), Blue Cat, TDK, Voxengo, and a few others.

    The next actual audio gear will be some good front end stuff. I'm looking at mic preamps, compressors, and EQs. I'll start out cheap, of course.

    But before that I'll pick some materials to make acoustic treatment for the 2 rooms. I found some great stuff made out of recycled cotton and wood fiber, so it is safer and cheaper than fiberglass. I'll add a link when I can find it. It's on the other computer.

    As far as ideal goes, that's not what you want, because when we start out in recording we're not good enough to take advantage of ideal. I've been recording at home for about 10 years, and my recordings are just now starting to sound good enough for me, not embarrassing anyway.

    Good enough is good enough. I'm lucky now because both my living room and the studio/office sound alright as is. At the last place we rented I couldn't find any place in the whole house that sounded good. And if it doesn't sound good in the room, it's not going to sound good in the recording unless you play really quiet and have the mic really close.

    And you can see that very little of my equipment is ideal. Maybe the Shure mics--the 57 and 58 are likely to be seen in any studio or stage anywhere. The rest of my stuff is either the cheapest that is acceptable or maybe one step above that.

    When you first start out, the problem is never the equipment or the room, it's you--your experience, your ear, your tech skills, your musicianship, your arranging ability, and so forth. Things will always be less than ideal until we learn how to use what we got. Only then does better equipment make any significant difference.
    Last edited by kenbennett; 03-05-2016 at 06:21 PM.

  17. #16

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    Excellent point Ken. The learning curve is considerable. Take one step at a time. Your last paragraph is right on point.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Why does reality almost always fall short of the ideal? Well, no one is perfect. But I was thinking about improving my recording equipment. Not that I can afford it - that itself may be the greatest impediment to an ideal rig. But, if I could, what would an ideal recording rig look like? I'm thinking for live instruments like guitar or piano, vocals, and percussion. Microphones, DAWs, USB interfaces, computer, preamps...am I leaving anything out?

    A dose of reality - I currently record to standalone Korg D- 1200 digital recorder that is aging and acting up. Via a $60 MXL large condenser mic directly into the Korg pre-amps. That's it. Any signal processing happens within the Korg. Then, I record a CDR and use that in sound systems and my computers - a PC home computer and a MacBook some years old. Apart from the fact that I could use some rejuvenation, my system definitely does.

    So we talk here ideal and reality based system recommendations. PC versus Mac? Both? To complicate my situation my legacy version of Sibelius is on my PC. But if I got Logic 10 Pro and an interface (here's that reality problem thing again), I probably would not need Sibelius. ....uggh! This gets complicated.

    Perhaps some of you who have experience could help me with your recommendations. I think I need at least a better mic....

    It's good to have 2 similar mics for recording stereo. Which MXL mic do you have?

    The Korg D-1200 should record OK at 24 bits. You only have one sample rate, 44.1KHZ. I've been recording at 44.1KHz/24bit up until now. Sounds fine.

    You probably need better mic preamps and better D/A converters more than you need a better mic. So I would go with something like the Focusrite 2i2. See how that sounds with the mic you have. If it's OK, pick up another mic like the one you have. If not, upgrade.

    If you ditch the Korg for a simper, better interface like the Focusrite, Presonus, or whatever, then add a DAW like Reaper, for example, a lot of signal processing will come with it, probably all you need for now.

    PC vs Mac makes no difference. Purely your preference.

    If you're going to use Logic as your DAW, then Mac it is. Logic is great. One of our guys uses it. But any DAW on any computer will work. Go for at least 8K of memory and a fast disk drive if possible. Oh, and USB 2.0 or better.

    Doesn't matter if Sibelius is on a different computer. You're just using it to generate MIDI files, right? So you could generate a midi file on Sibelius, transfer it to the Mac, and use all those awesome sounds that come with Logic.

    You could get by without Sibelius, but if you want to enter midi parts as notation first, then you need something like Sibelius. I use Finale Printmusic on my PC. Most people get a little keyboard controller to enter midi parts and skip the notation.

    You're on the way. You just need confidence in your system. That's the ideal. Not what system, but how you work it.

    Once you get to where I'm at, you realize that the only thing holding you back is performance. I just started a new project that will be a blues/rock guitar instrumental album. I have 3 songs written so far. One recorded. It's to the point to where I spend most of my time arranging the song and rehearsing my parts. The actual recording is the easy part.

  19. #18

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    Thanks for the responses and info, guys!

    Years ago when there were some problems with DAWs and compatibility I elected to go with the all-in-one solution - the Korg which was not cheap. I used that for some time and learned a bit about home recording. But now the Korg is having big issues with dropout intermittently of the left stereo bus and a buzzing when I try to record. Something is likely loose inside the chassis but I suspect repair might be expensive. It is likely time to upgrade to a computer DAW and given the portability thing, I suspect Apple Pro Logic would be a good choice for what I like to do. Even factoring a decent audio interface the total cost would be less than the original price of the Korg years ago.

    I would like to upgrade the large condenser mic (MXL 990 the current mic). I've used Sibelius G7 for years now daily. I also use an inexpensive Yamaha keyboard synth for note entry.

    With my Korg on life support I'm using a Tascam DR-05 which is an excellent tool for a variety of purposes but it does no have multi-tracking possibilities and of course no dynamic processing, delay, reverb or significant EQ. But the dual mics are pretty good.

    I'm thinking Apple Logic Pro 10, a better LDC, perhaps a Focusrite Audio interface or something on that order.

    I've done a fair amount of reading but some things you seem to learn with experience.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Larry - How are the notation capabilities of Logic Pro X?
    Sorry to be several months late on this one, but I just noticed your question. I use Musescore for notation. Have not tried using the notation on Logic yet.

  21. #20

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    No problem, Larry. I've never used Musescore.

    I have this 'dilemma' in a way. I am very familiar with my legacy Sibelius G7 which was the inexpensive starter version, though it was pretty adequate for my purposes. I don't use a computer DAW at the moment, and even though Apple Pro Logic 10 costs only around $200 or so, money is tight right now. But I'd like to convert to the Apple Logic system when that becomes feasible. Right now my Sibelius is on my desktop PC and not integrated with my Apple Macbook. Both computers are aging as well.....sigh. So I was hoping to ditch the old Sibelius if Apple Logic can cover both bases.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    No problem, Larry. I've never used Musescore.

    I have this 'dilemma' in a way. I am very familiar with my legacy Sibelius G7 which was the inexpensive starter version, though it was pretty adequate for my purposes. I don't use a computer DAW at the moment, and even though Apple Pro Logic 10 costs only around $200 or so, money is tight right now. But I'd like to convert to the Apple Logic system when that becomes feasible. Right now my Sibelius is on my desktop PC and not integrated with my Apple Macbook. Both computers are aging as well.....sigh. So I was hoping to ditch the old Sibelius if Apple Logic can cover both bases.
    Musescore is free. So you can try it and see if you like it.

  23. #22

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    Henry,

    Just took a look at your great studio pics. Interesting note -- you use a MOTU MTP-AV. I was the release/QA engineer on that box in another lifetime ;-)

    Great gear!

    -Chris