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  1. #1
    I thought I'd ask what you do about odd time sigs.

    Lately, I've been doing a lot of 5/4, 7/4, 11/8, 13/8 , 19/8, etc.

    Looked through the BIAB site and couldn't find anything specific to this.

    The few odd time sig styles I have with BIAB 2014 are corny renditions of things like the take-5 rhythm. So, usually I'll just create custom amount of beats per bar to create 3+2 for 5 or 4+3 for 7 but it doesn't work for 8th note time sigs unless you double the tempo and then the bass and comping get weird.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm no expert in BIAB, but am in some relation with it since ATARI days.

    As far as I gathered, BIAB meter machine works on either 4/4, or 3/4 base, so it will always be a multiple of 3, or 4, meaning you have to calculate ...., basically, you can not do better than what you already are doing.

    If you go into making custom patterns and styles, you can fake it by placing desired number of notes in the bar, at approximate places, giving them lengths to fill the bar, then moving them for suitable number of MIDI clicks so to spread them evenly, use both treble and bass stave to increase possibilities, staccato, legato ... I mean, ... you follow the idea.

    Some things are not meant to be some things.
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  4. #3
    i just upgraded my ezdrummer. There are lots odd meter drum patterns available for it with 11/8 or above.

    Good excuse to use my bass too ...

  5. #4

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    odd time sigs in BIAB - It's not easy, better off recording tracks in your favorite DAW.



    FWIW -


    • 12/8: Band-in-a-Box considers 12/8 to be a variation of a 4/4 style (i.e. a 4/4 style with a triplet feel). To make a 12/8 style, just make a 4/4 style in a triplet feel. In other words, one bar of 12/8 is equivalent to one bar of 4/4 in a triplet feel. For an example, choose the "Country 12/8" style from the S menu.
    • 6/8: This is similar to 12/8. Two bars of 6/8 make up one bar of 12/8, so 6/8 is done in 4/4 as well. Think of 6/8 as 2 beats of 4/4 in a triplet feel. For an example of this, go to the S menu, and select the "Irish" style. You can set the number of beats per bar to 2 in the Edit | Settings for Current Bar dialog (F5).
    • 9/8: This is like a waltz (3/4) style in a triplet feel.
    • 5/4, 6/4, 7/4 etc.: Songs in time signatures like 5/4 and 7/4 can be made. Just pick a base time signature of 3/4 or 4/4, then highlight the bars in your song and select the time signature of 5/4 or 7/4 using the Edit | Set Time Sig of Scrap menu item. Note that for time signatures higher than 4/4, each bar of 5/4 etc. will be spread over two or more bars in Band-in-a-Box. For example, 5/4 alternates between a bar of 3 and a bar of 2.

  6. #5

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    Also worth noting, I don't think some of these workarounds work properly in Real Tracks, some only work in the midi versions.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosko View Post
    Songs in time signatures like 5/4 and 7/4 can be made. Just pick a base time signature of 3/4 or 4/4, then highlight the bars in your song and select the time signature of 5/4 or 7/4 using the Edit | Set Time Sig of Scrap menu item. Note that for time signatures higher than 4/4, each bar of 5/4 etc. will be spread over two or more bars in Band-in-a-Box. For example, 5/4 alternates between a bar of 3 and a bar of 2.
    Thank you Bosko,

    Must say, it was hard to believe there wasn't one, but I've never noticed that function. Too much text per drop down menu, I guess.
    The next time I open BIAB for some reason, I'll try to remember to search for it.
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  8. #7
    Great post, bosko. At the very least, you could save it as a template for said time Sig. Back in the day, I used BIAB for the quick and dirty work to paste into daw etc.

    enter changes for your tune in 11/8 into biab 12/8 template. Paste that into a DAW. Pretty easy to edit for 11/8 with cut and paste from there. Sometimes back-and-forth from each software depending on sounds and functionality I wanted to get from each software. Each is pretty good for its own thing.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-13-2015 at 06:49 AM.

  9. #8
    which 12/8 template are you using? The 12/8 time sig examples I have in my BIAB are for 50s doo-wop music.

  10. #9
    Yeah. Sorry. Like I said, "Back in the day"... It's been a few years now since I use that version I had. I think you could "borrow" bass or drums etc from one style in band in a box and use in another style though. It's all a lot of work-around hacking.

    The stuff I was editing my daw was probably a good bit simpler than what you're doing. cut and paste in the daw works fine for drum only type stuff especially. if you wanted to edit chord changes it really wouldn't be the way to go.

    Bosko's work-around is probably the best. Take a little hipper style in 3/4, insert measures of two or four or whatever where you want them to imply accents , and save it blank like that as a template. rename it 13/8 style or whatever. it could just be the one measure or whatever . cut and paste however many measures you need when you're ready to work. Sorry I'm no help probably.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-15-2015 at 12:22 AM.

  11. #10

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    To use the RT's in odd time sig's, the f5 button is your friend.

    Use a 3/4 style and 3/4 RT's if making a custom style. Highlight the first bar press f5 the menu that comes on lets you change tempo, key sig, mute tracks etc etc on a bar by bar basis. Good thing is the top box is number of beats per bar, type in 3, I know you are in 3/4 and it isn't really needed on the first bar but it gets you into the swing of things. highlight the next bar press f5 and set the number of beats to 2. on the next bar set to 3 and do this for the whole song, YES the copy alt 'c' will give you the copy paste bars menu and you can use that so don't worry you don't have to do the whole song bar by bar.

    When setting beats per bar all Biab needs is that the first bar you alter has a beat count LESS than the first bar of the song/style. For 8th note keys sigs you can use 3/4, eg 6/8 can be treated as two bars of 3/4. for other odd time sigs experiment and see what works for you.

    Once you get your heads round this then try using wrong RT's eg 4/4 bass in 3/4 tunes using the f5 button.

    Tom..

  12. #11
    that doesn't work for 8th note time sigs. You can't do 11/8 using that method. I think I mentioned this in the original posting.

    And doing two bars of 3/4 to simulate 6/8 doesn't really work because the subdivisions are different between 3/4 and 6/8, muchless 7/8 or 11/8 or 13/8 or 19/8!

    Quote Originally Posted by oilywrag View Post
    To use the RT's in odd time sig's, the f5 button is your friend.

    Use a 3/4 style and 3/4 RT's if making a custom style. Highlight the first bar press f5 the menu that comes on lets you change tempo, key sig, mute tracks etc etc on a bar by bar basis. Good thing is the top box is number of beats per bar, type in 3, I know you are in 3/4 and it isn't really needed on the first bar but it gets you into the swing of things. highlight the next bar press f5 and set the number of beats to 2. on the next bar set to 3 and do this for the whole song, YES the copy alt 'c' will give you the copy paste bars menu and you can use that so don't worry you don't have to do the whole song bar by bar.

    When setting beats per bar all Biab needs is that the first bar you alter has a beat count LESS than the first bar of the song/style. For 8th note keys sigs you can use 3/4, eg 6/8 can be treated as two bars of 3/4. for other odd time sigs experiment and see what works for you.

    Once you get your heads round this then try using wrong RT's eg 4/4 bass in 3/4 tunes using the f5 button.

    Tom..

  13. #12

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    I think this quick demo is in 11/8 Jack.
    A 4 bar intro then the head for "There came You" 'Bill Evans'..

    That's an 11/8 style that gave me the Bass(midi) and Piano(midi)
    and then Realdrums for the Drums.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  14. #13
    Have you checked this out? http://www.pgmusic.com/mm5/merchant....usic&langid=en

    " MIDI Styles Set 38: About Time

    This set features 20 "odd-meter" styles for Band-in-a-Box - with time signatures such as 5/4, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 14/8, 19/16, including styles such as 2416VISH, 68_BOSSA and 68_JAZZ1. These styles cover the Jazz, Pop, Rock, Latin, Country and World Beat genres. Want to learn how to count these "odd-meters" correctly? It's easy with Band-in-a-Box, simply open the Big Lyrics window and follow the on-screen counting. A must-have for your collection."

  15. #14
    i saw it on a web search but it seems to come up only for the mac version

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Have you checked this out? PGMUSIC.COM: Basket Contents

    " MIDI Styles Set 38: About Time

    This set features 20 "odd-meter" styles for Band-in-a-Box - with time signatures such as 5/4, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 14/8, 19/16, including styles such as 2416VISH, 68_BOSSA and 68_JAZZ1. These styles cover the Jazz, Pop, Rock, Latin, Country and World Beat genres. Want to learn how to count these "odd-meters" correctly? It's easy with Band-in-a-Box, simply open the Big Lyrics window and follow the on-screen counting. A must-have for your collection."

  16. #15

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    They are available for PC. They are made in a manner I described above. They are as perfect as permited by MIDI resolution. Sooner or later you have to asign certain beats to a midi click just before, or just after the proper timing spot, because it can not be between clicks. It is still all within 4/4 and/or 3/4, notes moved from straight quantization, durations tweaked from written, so to spread evenly accross the bar. Like playing, for example, 7tupplets over 4/4, with regular 4/4 beats inaudiable. It sound a lot like 7/8, but it is not. Hopefully I made some sense with explanation.
    Last edited by Vladan; 03-15-2015 at 03:05 PM.
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  17. #16
    yes, that makes sense vladan, are you editing in a 3rd party midi editor and then re-importing the style back into biab?

    I think it may be easier to just purchase some 3rd party ezdrummer odd time sig stuff and create my own backings in my daw

  18. #17

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    J, honestly, I do not do that, I just happen to know how it's done. When I do things like that, odd meter, I do them in DAW of choice, from the scratch. I don't use BIAB very often anyway. Sometimes to generate baass line, or drums, 99,99999% in 4/4. The rest I make on my own in sequencer/ DAW. Do not go back from there to BIAB.
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  19. #18

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    I'd definitely go with the edit a Biab track or make your own in a notation program and then import that into a DAW. The problem with editing a Biab track is that the rhythmic accents may end up in awkward places. Just make sure you know where you need those rhythmic accents to be and place/shift them as needed.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    I saw it on a web search but it seems to come up only for the mac version
    Yeah. I noticed the same thing earlier. It only wanted to give the Mac results for a general search. Then I tried: "band in a box 11/8 windows" and found the link I posted above. It's marked "Windows" pretty clearly at the top and even more explicitly on the check out page later, with an option to choose Windows or Mac. I might give it a shot before hacking everything with a work-around. It would seem to be a lot easier to tweak something in a DAW which is already at least in a given odd time signature.

    If it's just rhythm you want you can do a lot editing with DAW, but if you want to be able to drop chord changes in... Well, editing that yourself every time makes the purchase price of the add-on start to look cheap. Good luck. I need to go work on 4/4 and 3/4. :-)

  21. #20
    if i go with a daw, i'd probably use ezdrummer and play my own bass parts. But I may give the it's about time a shot. It's $29 right?

  22. #21
    nevermind, gave another listen to those "it's about time" styles and it sounds like a wedding band playing 11/8 , lol.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    if i go with a daw, i'd probably use ezdrummer and play my own bass parts. But I may give the it's about time a shot. It's $29 right?
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    nevermind, gave another listen to those "it's about time" styles and it sounds like a wedding band playing 11/8 , lol.
    :-) Roger that. Keep in mind that you can "borrow" virtual bass players, drummers etc. from other styles etc. Now, I'm not quite sure how well or if that works if you're taking the virtual players from a 4/4 jazz style, and dropping them into something with odd meters. From what Vladan describes about how the software "thinks" about things more in the way of simply quantizing existing styles, it would certainly seem very possible. The "feel" stays the same if everything is quantized to a given parameter???

    You might check with their chat support. If you had a hipper rhythm section that you could drop into an existing 11/8 template etc., it could certainly get you a few steps ahead in what you're editing in the DAW anyway. Good luck.

  24. #23

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    these are the standard onesBand in a Box Odd Time Signatures?-capture-jpg
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