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For simultaneously notating in both standard and tab formats, I find that Guitar Pro (Guitar Pro 6 - Tablature software for guitar, bass, and other fretted instruments) does a pretty good job. You can enter notes either on the stave or in the tab, moving freely between the two, or you can import standard midi files to convert them to tab. It's not free, but has plenty of features, plus, of course it plays back what you have written.
I have no affiliation, etc........
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11-12-2014 03:53 AM
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I know loads of "musicians" that can read notation like a mechanical robot but know nothing about harmony and couldn't improvise over happy birthday if their life depended on it. So what's your point? Only real musician's sight read? I'll have to disagree with you on that. In our European music schools I see every day how so much value is placed on reading and theory and none on the musicianship skills one really needs if you want to actually become a player.
Originally Posted by targuit
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+1 on MuseScore! It's what I use all the time now (coming from Sibelius).
It's easy to use, and you can adjust just about anything (I especially like that you can switch off the clef, key signature and tempo at the beginning of each staff, I only need that in the first bar, à la Realbook, I was never able to do that in Sibelius ;-).
Didn't hear about the 2.0 version yet, I will upgrade! Because I like adding chord-diagrams (to remember specific grips).
I don't use tabs very often, when I do it's for wrinting down chord-melody arrangements, since in those it's very important to play things a certain way. You can put that down in standard notation, using roman numbering for positions and finger and string-numbers, but then a tab just reads a lot easier. I usually use a double notation then: standard notation on the top and a tab-staff under that.
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That's, should you ever played a gig, or back in 70's when you did it wild with groupies? Originally Posted by targuit
Last edited by Vladan; 11-12-2014 at 05:28 AM.
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I also use guitar pro 6 for writing guitar ideas and transcribing. Great program! You can get it for about 70 bucks I believe. They do a lot of updates. The thing that I feel could be better about it is the notation style such as the spacing between notes.
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I think tab is overrated. I won't say don't ever use them but reading standard notation is by far more superior. That plus a ridiculously strong ears is all you really need.
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Look - if you wish to waste your valuable (life)time reading tab rather than simply learning to read notation properly, which by comparison with reading tab is like a race between a Maserati and a Fiat 500, be my guest! If you wish to spend hours drawing intricate chord diagrams rather than play real music, go for it! If you want to be perpetually barred from the broadest world of music, from transcribing Bill Evans to the Concerto di Aranjuez, that is your choice!
The point is missed that the notion that learning to read notation is some impossibly difficult task or that it precludes developing notions of harmony and improvisation (Alain) is totally exaggerated. I began learning to read notation in grade school, classical guitar at twelve, and could read quite well within a couple of years. That is an investment for a lifetime! And Matt, I was playing Stairway to Heaven when I was sixteen or so (essentially by ear within fifteen minutes of getting the album). No big whoop....but it did impress quite a few impressionable girls in those glory days before HIV (Vladan).
In terms of learning chord diagrams - my chord study was based first on one of those chord books of a gazillion chord forms of which a fraction were truly relevant. And because I was fluent in reading notation, in those days before Sibelius, I used to write it out as notation on paper with a pencil. People always insist that guitar technique is 'visual' - BS. Tell that to a blind guitarist or pianist. Music is aural. But when you read notation, there is that graphic visual element - the rise and fall of melodies and the chord forms as notation that become "imprinted" on your musical intelligence. Remember, musical thought is much faster than reading serially can ever be. As David (Truth Hertz) noted in a thread about sight reading quoting an article written by a musician on the subject, the key to learning to sight read effectively is not to read e-v-e-r-y n-o-t-e like that but to read the first note of the downbeat in a measure, and then your experience of what an arpeggio looks like in notation allows your musical intelligence to 'fill in' the rest. Thus, the importance of reading ahead of the music and knowing where your note destination will be.
Try doing that with tab.....LOL....Anyway, I have no dog in the fight. I'm trying to communicate my opinion and my humble advice. Tab away!!
JayLast edited by targuit; 11-12-2014 at 10:21 AM.
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Tabs, notation......
Why not let everybody use what he or she is most comfortable with?
In the end, all roads lead to Rome and true talent will emerge regardless tabs or notation was used in the process.....
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I use Sibelius, but noteflight and muse score are both great... I've dabbled with both. I have just used Sibelius since around 2004 and am comfortable with it ( though I still use Sibelius 5). +1 Mr. Beaumont the right tool for the right job. I teach mostly college lessons, but in my private studio, while I do always teach mensural notation, with an older student just looking to play some rock tunes tab is the way to go.... I also teach renaissance lute.... So tab is definitely the way to go (of course mostly french tab, some Spanish and Italian, and only an introduction to German).
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Yeah, that long post and your others demonstrate the opposite... Originally Posted by targuit
Someone asked about notation software which, among other things, would facilitate using tablature, and you butt in with "why?". You're the only person on the forum having a conversation about using TAB ONLY, to the exclusion of any music notation, and your having that conversation with YOURSELF.
Meanwhile, you're derailing a thread to suit your own apparent need to (once again) troll on everyone else's apparent lack of musicianship in the shadow of your own great talent. You insult actual teachers when, to my knowledge, you're not a teacher.
It's bad etiquette to go off topic the way that you have, especially when you insult other people. Go start your own thread on "using tablature to the exclusivity of every other form of notation". I'm sure all the tab-only people will come and talk to you about it in that thread.
Meanwhile, learn some tact and don't be so arrogant. I know it's only the Internet, but there are basic standards for discussing things on a forum like this and staying somewhat on topic. Learn some manners.
By the way, I've posted my own amateur jazz playing, as have others. It's a healthy thing and keeps me humble. It makes me measure the tone I use and the authority with which I speak about things. I've seen better players than I speak with the same humility (and grace toward lesser players like me).
As far as I know, you don't even play the guitar. Just saying...Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-12-2014 at 11:50 AM.
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Btw, I know we'll all see your overwhelming jazz artistry "soon"...
Whatever...That's REAL B.S....
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I'm sure, as a physician, that you are sensitive to matters of etiquette and manners in the real world.
Start your own thread. Stop preaching at people to the exclusion of the original conversation. Nothing else you say changes the fact that you are being arrogant and rude, and that's addressing your actual behavior, not attacking your person or name calling.
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matt - chill, my friend, as I am no troll, and I don't give a shit what you play nor how you play it. As for being a 'teacher', I have met a lot of less than competent ones in my life. If you think I hang here to carry on some pathological charade, you are dearly mistaken.
Given that I don't cast aspersions on your character, integrity, bonafides as a teacher or anything else about you personally - in contradistinction to your characterization and insinuations about me - I suggest you moderate your comments. I give my opinions - you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. If they are not in conformity with your vast experience teaching Stairway to Heaven to aging boomers, tough. But troll behavior includes personal attacks. This is not one. And I don't doubt you can play. Perhaps you could agree to post your versions of the tunes which I will very soon put up hopefully. I just signed up for Soundcloud, after reading through the terms of service which seem to suggest that subscribers are responsible for securing the rights to the music they put up, which I interpret as including covers. But others have assured me this morning that covers do not represent a problem if not for monetization. I hope that is true.
Btw, Matt - if you read notation as you say you do, I can send you one of my transcriptions of the jazz standard of your choice, in the key of your choice, if it is in my personal library of nearly 200. I understand that my legacy Sibelius G7 software can produce tab, but I don't waste my time with that. Nor do good pianists, string players, horn players....can't speak for those who play the triangle. Just drop me a PM indicating your preference. The guitar accompaniment is written out usually simply as block chords notationally for simplicity of use, but it is more detailed and elaborate than the Fakebook lead sheets.
I know that teachers have to work with the quality and motivation of their students. I don't object to learning tab. I just don't understand why anyone would spend most of their lives driving a Ugo when they could ride in the Maserati...
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It's also considered rude and small (in the real world) to bring every conversation back around to being about oneself. I feel sorry for you. It's all hot air.... You're all talk.....
Start your own tab-only thread, or I am calling "troll" on this. It ain't just about you.
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Matt - the problem with personal attacks online is that they are hard to retract and you just might look like the fool in the end. This just might be one of those situations. Be cautious what you say - it might come back to bite you on the ass...
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Why don't you guys take the argument to PM and spare the rest of us. Or take it to that Gear site where arguing is apparently as necessary as breathing.
The rest of us get your points ... again ... and again ... and again. Really, why so much emotional investment into a subject that's so benign?
And now you've started ad hominem attacks...that simply means that you have nothing more to say about the subject itself. Please let it go.Last edited by Flyin' Brian; 11-12-2014 at 12:50 PM.
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I agree - I have nothing more to add. Tab, notation - all possible with notation software. Case closed on my end. As for the troll, we'll see.
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Originally Posted by targuit
...and your response would have been fine without the last statement, which kind of makes your troll remarks somewhat ironic.Last edited by Flyin' Brian; 11-12-2014 at 12:57 PM.
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I was reading this thread with real interest, until it turned down a strange path. FWIW I sight read well, I play in orchestral situations every day, I do sessions, transcribed lots of Keith Jarrett, Brecker, wes... Wayne Krantz (tab is SO useful for his open string stuff, not so much his rhythmic approach!)
Done lots of theatre, studio sessions ads etc... And guess what, I read tab ALSO. My philosophy when people ask "should I do A OR B?" DO BOTH.
Piece
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Or PEACE!! Oops
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Well this got ridiculous.
To try to get the convo back on track and away from metaphysical discussions on Sibelius' ability to cure cancer, is anyone familiar with a good standard for notation writing that includes:
1) Pitch quality
2) Rhythm
3) Dynamics
4) Articulation
5) Picking direction (or fingering)
6) Fingering
7) Fret position
Obviously standard notation rocks 1-4. I often see (5) notated above the notes. The Leavitt system seems to include (6), but not necessarily (7) unless you assume that you're doing his position style playing. Things get scary cluttered and hard to read. Not that versed in classical notation, does it tend to include all of this?
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Classical can pretty much cover all of those. There are standard pick direction symbols on notation as well. I don't know about all the different software products' options for producing these.
On the free end, Muse has drag and drop options for 1-4, 5 (classical) and basic text editing for the other. For fingering, the lyric entry would be particularly useful, if you're not otherwise using actual lyrics because you can tab (key) through note by note entering without a lot of mouse clicks.
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Ahh, that's an interesting thought. I hadn't considered (ab)using the lyric function. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Thanks, Matt.
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You can work through chord entry in the same way above, If that's not otherwise occupied. There are likely ways to add multiple 'verses' as well.
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I found this image example of MuseScore doing classical guitar notation with position (fret number), and right hand fingering. (And, three voices).
Last edited by fep; 11-13-2014 at 07:19 PM.
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