How many of you use BIAB or similar software for practice?

[Vladan]

... So, unless I'm misinformed, the BIAB Ultrapak Plus with good jazz Real Tracks and other styles would cost around $470 for first timers, right? I'm expecting a pretty good tax refund, but given the crappy AGI to begin with in this economy, I guarantee my wife would kill me! Gotta win the damn Lottery...

Jay

[Vladan]

RE BIAB,

I use only basic functions, no real tracks, no additional applications ..., it's very useful to punch in some chords and get instant drum track, bass line or key pad to export as MIDI into DAW of choice for editing and mix, saving yourself couple of hours with stupid songs from unrealistic and demanding, while not overly talented, wannabes who came to exploit your arranging and recording abilities at fixed all in rate, sounding like a flock of seagulls (not the band), while expecting you to turn it into Shania Twain, at least.

In regard to learning and rehearsing (Jazz) guitar practice, I think it is OK for checking out ideas, but real work should be done with and without metronome. With to get into habit of playing in time, without to get into habit of playing in time without external reference. Playing over backing track is not too good, as everything tend to sound better than in real life.

[fep]

So many uses for BIAB. Some you may not have thought of:

- put in just a song structure (no chords, but enter chords if you want), with where you want drum fills, change in drum pattern, etc. Use that with real track drummer and create a drum track. Then use that for your recording of a tune.

- create a track with whatever instruments you want to be your scratch track for a recording. That is edited out by the end of the recording process.

- Use the notation of a real track over a chord progression to learn an instrument. (I've done this for bass)

[medblues]

So many uses for BIAB. Some you may not have thought of:

- put in just a song structure (no chords), with where you want drum fills, change in drum pattern, etc. Use that with real track drummer and create a drum track. Then use that for your recording of a tune.

- create a track with whatever instruments you want to be your scratch track for a recording. That is edited out by the end of the recording process.

- Use the notation of a real track over a chord progression to learn an instrument. (I've done this for bass)

Can you expand on the last point please ?

[0zoro]

Hej fep, that was a cool idea, thanks for spreading it!

[fep]

Can you expand on the last point please ?

You enter a chord progression, and select a style that includes a real track bass player. Then you click the notation icon, select bass in the notation window, and you have the notation of the bass track which was originally played by a studio musician. Then you learn from the notation and play along. This has been eye opening for me when looking at walking bass lines... lots of chromatics, approach tones etc.

I was surprised to see the real tracks notated.

You can do the same for non real tracks too, I just haven't done that.

I've learned the bass pretty much from BIAB. Pretty much all the bass lines and ideas (starting on the 2nd chorus) I play on this video where from learning with BIAB. (In addition, this is an example where all I used from BIAB for the recording was a BIAB drum track.)

[medblues]

You enter a chord progression, and select a style that includes a real track bass player. Then you click the notation icon, select bass in the notation window, and you have the notation of the bass track which was originally played by a studio musician. Then you learn from the notation and play along. This has been eye opening for me when looking at walking bass lines... lots of chromatics, approach tones etc.

I was surprised to see the real tracks notated.

You can do the same for non real tracks too, I just haven't done that.

I've learned the bass pretty much from BIAB. Pretty much all the bass lines and ideas (starting on the 2nd chorus) I play on this video where from learning with BIAB. (In addition, this is an example where all used from BIAB for the recording was a BIAB drum track.)

Super, thanks, good reason to upgrade when the new Mac version comes, mine does not sound good any more, need those real drum sounds.

[AlsoRan]

You enter a chord progression, and select a style that includes a real track bass player. Then you click the notation icon, select bass in the notation window, and you have the notation of the bass track which was originally played by a studio musician. Then you learn from the notation and play along. This has been eye opening for me when looking at walking bass lines... lots of chromatics, approach tones etc.

I was surprised to see the real tracks notated.

You can do the same for non real tracks too, I just haven't done that.

I've learned the bass pretty much from BIAB. Pretty much all the bass lines and ideas (starting on the 2nd chorus) I play on this video where from learning with BIAB. (In addition, this is an example where all I used from BIAB for the recording was a BIAB drum track.)

I just love to see guys using their noggin' to get the most out of a situation.

Bravo, fep!

[TOMMO]

Good job, fep and thanks for the tip!

[grahambop]

A handy feature is that you can export the track to WAV and simultaneously split the instruments into separate WAV files. Then drop them into your DAW or recording software as individual tracks. So you can re-mix the drums, bass, piano etc ‘after the fact’. Or remove the piano altogether in the final mix if you want.

Also worth playing around with pan, tone and reverb settings in BIAB, this can make a surprising difference to the sound of the backing track. E.g. I was trying for a sort of ‘Wes and Mel Rhyne’ organ backing, it didn’t nail it until I boosted the treble and put the reverb way up on the organ, then it sounded much more like those Riverside organ trio recordings. Adding more reverb to the drums can sound good too.

[aleksandar]

I used to use Impro-Visor, which at the time I found to be somewhat helpful with learning changes, keeping time and getting some ideas out of it. Now I mostly use books, backing tracks and Musescore+VLC to transcribe tunes. Also, I am learning how to use this MMA software for creating custom backing tracks - the main reason I don't use Impro-Visor anymore is because it can't change time signature and tempo mid-song.

[guido5]

I use iRealPro. Great tool...

[beardog]

FYI The 2018 version of BIAB for Mac is out now.

[rpjazzguitar]

IRealPro. I used BIAB before that. I have an older version of BIAB -- IRealPro sounded better (than my old version -- I don't know about new BIAB). Also IRealPro fits on my phone. OTOH, BIAB had melody.

IRealPro made a big difference for me. I set it for 13 repeats and a key change every chorus around the cycle. Drilling myself in this way produced fairly rapid gains, as I identified chords I was weak on in specific parts of the neck. By rapid, I mean months, not years.

It also helped with learning tunes -- and probably could even more if I disciplined myself to comp in all 12 keys without looking.

[SandChannel]

I see some complaints earlier in this thread (2014) that BIAB has a difficult user interface. Has it improved over the years? I'm not the most savvy when it comes to that kind of stuff.

[jasaco]

I don't think it's difficult at all to put together basic tracks. There are some nuances that are a bit trickier to figure out how to do (such as 1st and 2nd endings, etc.) but generally I'd say the program is quite intuitive to use.

[0zoro]

I am inclined to agree with jasaco above. I have used BIAB for years and I consider myself a novice, but also find that my needs slowly evolve and I am then into the manual. Not having a band to practice with at home this is a very good aid.

[voxss]

i use it every day...piano repetitions got on my nerves..so i bought the b4 Organ..right click the track and youll see your real tracks..dead simple to switch.....dont forget to turn off the Bass...Organ Bass pedals are heard..jam 24/7...what mores to be said...

[AlsoRan]

i use it every day...piano repetitions got on my nerves..so i bought the b4 Organ..right click the track and youll see your real tracks..dead simple to switch.....dont forget to turn off the Bass...Organ Bass pedals are heard..jam 24/7...what mores to be said...

voxss,
Unless you have something specifically against pianos, I suggest you go on their website and listen to the Mike LeDonne piano realtracks. I personally prefer piano to organ, and the Mike LeDonne realtrack set is about at good as it gets for me.

[Skip Ellis]

Just downloaded the Pro upgrade to 2019 from 2012 version. No problems and only $69 if you just do the download. I've used BIAB since it was on a little floppy DOS disk. You can do simple things easily but have to dig into the manual or go on the forum for some tricky stuff. Never found anything that I can't do, though. I use it for arranging and making backing tracks for my oldies duo - much better than karaoke tracks which are usually too busy.

[mhch]

I don't think it's difficult at all to put together basic tracks. There are some nuances that are a bit trickier to figure out how to do (such as 1st and 2nd endings, etc.) but generally I'd say the program is quite intuitive to use.

Agree on the basic functionalities in 4/4 time signature, i/e. entering chords and selecting a realtrack set, but as soon as one wants more .. it becomes harder, the preference and song parameter menus aren't that always clear, non 4/4 time signature realtracks aren't as good as the 4/4 ones, mixing time signatures is awful, the notation feature is painful to use, etc ..

Put another way, much better than irealpro in terms of sound quality in 4/4 time and using realtracks, and simple to use for the same purpose. Pretty useful for bassist too, since one can easily mute the bass part as well as isolate it to analyse bass lines ... Beyond that effort is required which may not necessarily be succesfull

[Alter]

Sometimes i use the Ireal app on the phone, but most of the time if a want a backing track i just use a looper pedal. Just play a bass line or basic joe pass style and i have the track in seconds..

[voxss]

appreciate the comment ALSO RAN....i just checked my real tracks .....Mike le DONNE is on organ..Miles Black on piano both top notch players...i was trying to get those early organ combo sounds ... pat martino joey franscesco...think i did make the wrong comment....maybe a midi track slipped in lol

[AlsoRan]

appreciate the comment ALSO RAN....i just checked my real tracks .....Mike le DONNE is on organ..Miles Black on piano both top notch players...i was trying to get those early organ combo sounds ... pat martino joey franscesco...think i did make the wrong comment....maybe a midi track slipped in lol

As a sidenote, I was trying to create a Sax solo ( I have the Sax solo on a couple of choruses while I practice my comping) on my original song and was fooled at first by the midi Sax. It sounded pretty good to my old damaged ears, almost like the realband.

Midi has improved from the early days, IMHO.

Good luck and enjoy your BIAB.

[voxss]

Also worth playing around with pan, tone and reverb settings in BIAB, this can make a surprising difference to the sound of the backing track. E.g. I was trying for a sort of ‘Wes and Mel Rhyne’ organ backing, it didn’t nail it until I boosted the treble and put the reverb way up on the organ, then it sounded much more like those Riverside organ trio recordings. Adding more reverb to the drums can sound good too.

thanks Graham will try that

[voxss]

tried that on the 2 takes of Au Privave riverside recordings..wes in a box...worked a treat...ty

[AlsoRan]

A handy feature is that you can export the track to WAV and simultaneously split the instruments into separate WAV files. Then drop them into your DAW or recording software as individual tracks. So you can re-mix the drums, bass, piano etc ‘after the fact’. Or remove the piano altogether in the final mix if you want.

Also worth playing around with pan, tone and reverb settings in BIAB, this can make a surprising difference to the sound of the backing track. E.g. I was trying for a sort of ‘Wes and Mel Rhyne’ organ backing, it didn’t nail it until I boosted the treble and put the reverb way up on the organ, then it sounded much more like those Riverside organ trio recordings. Adding more reverb to the drums can sound good too.

This was eye-catching in that I have been getting into recording a little more, and I am just beginning to realize the difference panning and treble/bass levels make in the sound of a recording. I will be down around a month from surgery and I hope to have a good enough attitude to "play" around with this program and maximize the sound.

In fact, I bought a new laptop just for this so discovering your post was timely for me. But, the last time I had this surgery, it was a complete downer and I had no motivation or desire to do "guitar" things. Hopefully, this time I will be mentally ready and will not go through the depression that recovery visited upon me the first time. Thanks from me also for this tip!

[deke]

I’m old and used BIB years ago on a Mac. I agree about the UI being clunky, but you can get used to it. I have Logic and often download midi files of various standards. Some are good, few are great and most are pretty cheesy. I will often edit some to taste, but my goal is to practice. You could do the same with GarageBand or any DAW on Mac or PC. If anyone can point to quality jazz midi files, free or even a couple bucks that would be great. It’s a mess out there!

[Skip Ellis]

There's a folder in your BIAB directory marked "BIAB Songs" - open and you'll see tunes listed alphabetically, 'a', 'b', etc. Some good tunes in there that you can,at least, use as a starting point. I also import midi files as a starting point to build usable tracks.

[Jamesrohr1]

As a Jazz noob BIAB seems like a bit more hassle than its worth. It's very expense (I think) and the interface looks awful and counter intuitve based on the videos I've seen. Even loading songs seems to be a hassle.

IReal Pro is my jam for now.

Also, YouTube has a surprising quantity of good sounding backing tracks.

I know pros and old-timers scoff at play-alongs in general. But they are a god-send to new players living in areas where it is not possible to play with others. Just my two cents.

[jazzereh]

Been using BIAB for years, much more intensively in years past than now but it's still an excellent tool for practice. There are so many ways to vary a tune you want to learn and the instruments are sounding very good these days.

Playalongs are also a good idea but more limiting in that every time you start a track up you get the same thing every time. BIAB is extremely flexible as has been pointed out above.

And, for those who scoff at the idea of using this tool, this is simply the digital extension of playing along to an LP which is how many/most/all [?] of the greats learned tunes.

[tbeltrans]

I just purchased BIAB (Pro version, which is the basic version but still has enough goodies for me) through this site. It is a few dollars cheaper than directly from pgmusic.com. You get a serial number and then go over to pgmusic.com to download BIAB using the serial number you got from here. I hope that by doing that, the purchase helps support this site (?).

Anyway, I also want to recommend Norton Music, Band-in-a-Box improvement products (tools and toys) and much more for their BIAB fakebook disks, now including the Real Book (Hal Leonard version) and they also have disks for all the Frank Mantooth fakebooks, as well as for the Sher books.

Tony

[Doug B]

I see some complaints earlier in this thread (2014) that BIAB has a difficult user interface. Has it improved over the years? I'm not the most savvy when it comes to that kind of stuff.

I don't know what the interface used to be like, but IMO, BIAB 2019 is not too easy and is a huge time waster trying to do anything personally I would rather play my guitar than fiddle around with some damn software. I have applied for a refund.

[tbeltrans]

When I write arrangements for solo fingerstyle guitar, I prefer to do it with paper and pencil because it is so much faster for me than computer software. I don't need software to transpose to a suitable key, because it is really easy to do as I arrange. If I want to distribute it to friends, I might use Tabledit for that (or just scan copies of my hand written arrangement), but it is after the fact and just mindlessly typing it in the way I suppose one would learn a TAB arrangement from somebody else. I think best when arranging with just my guitar, paper, and pencil.

For me BIAB is a good learning tool and worth the time to learn to get around in it. For others, it may be the opposite, just as some people might cringe at the idea of using paper and pencil for arranging.

I purchased the Norton download "disks" for the various fakebooks, which certainly saves time having to input the changes for any of the tunes covered, and there are hundreds on those disks. When I consider how much I get paid per hour working, and how long it would take to type in a whole fakebook of tunes, these disks are a bargain. That leaves me to focus on selecting what real track(s) I want to use and of those, which parts I want to see or focus on.

My most used learning tool, though, is Transcribe!.

Tony

[Djang]

Biab is a funny thing. On the one hand it can be really sophisticated, or easy to use, on the other hand simplistic or hard to use.

my current setup is biab connected to Kontakt (sometimes sampletank) by way of loopbe (midi out in Biab, midi in @ kontakt). Guitar mostly just acoustic and listening to Biab on the speakers.

so, a big 1+ for me.

[Gabor]

My potential answer was not presented in the poll: I use Aebersold and Hal Leonard backing tracks. Maybe I am oversensitive the machine touch on the music, so I run out the room if I hear BIAB. To explain that a bit more: I can not listen midi music also, even they recorded by real musicians...

[Midnight Blues]

I've been contemplating purchasing B-i-a-B for a while now. The other day I was surfing YT and came across this:

SOLD! I just purchased both! Comes with "Grant Green-in-a-Box" as well!

Can I be more excited!?



Even though I just finished the download process, I've cast my vote for "I use BIAB or a similar tool all the time" because I certainly intend to use it for that purpose at a minimum.

On a side note, is musicmountain7 (Mr. Panos) no longer a member here?

[voxsss]

INDEED..i have the same files WES/GRANT....add some real tracks and your away...HINT if the tabs don't appear...notation options ... click OPT. track type .. Guitar..

[voxsss]

if only we could turn the guitar off and use tempo control...not possible with audio track..

[Midnight Blues]

"Reply With Quote" not working:voxsss

[COLOR=#676767 !important]Join Date

[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#676767 !important]Sep 2019Posts13

INDEED..i have the same files WES/GRANT....add some real tracks and your away...HINT if the tabs don't appear...notation options ... click OPT. track type .. Guitar..

[/COLOR]I'm very new to B-i-a-B voxsss, would you mind elaborating further, as it relates to adding the "Real Tracks"?

I guess in a way this is related, so it's funny that you should type that regarding the notation/tabs too. The highlighted notes/lines initially wasn't working for me. I contacted Mr. Panos and he suggested to go the the "Notation Window>Opt. and check the Highlighted playback notes in Red!" Before I went to do that, I tried it again and thankfully, it was working.

Here's link to a more recent video that he provided to me (can't imbed it?):

Jazz Guitar Transcriptions Wes Montgomery ! - YouTube

voxsss

[COLOR=#676767 !important]Join DateSep 2019Posts13

[/COLOR]

if only we could turn the guitar off and use tempo control...not possible with audio track..Guitar..

Oh, I thought you could slow it down? Well, at least the "Lead Sheet" anyway?

[Midnight Blues]

"Reply With Quote" not working:

voxsss

INDEED..i have the same files WES/GRANT....add some real tracks and your away...HINT if the tabs don't appear...notation options ... click OPT. track type .. Guitar..

I'm very new to B-i-a-B voxsss, would you mind elaborating further, as it relates to adding the "Real Tracks"?

I guess in a way this is related, so it's funny that you should type that regarding the notation/tabs too. The highlighted notes/lines initially wasn't working for me. I contacted Mr. Panos and he suggested to go the the "Notation Window>Opt. and check the Highlighted playback notes in Red!" Before I went to do that, I tried it again and thankfully, it was working.

Here's link to a more recent video that he provided to me (can't imbed the video?):

Jazz Guitar Transcriptions Wes Montgomery ! - YouTube

voxsss

if only we could turn the guitar off and use tempo control...not possible with audio track..

Oh, I thought you could slow it down? Well, at least the "Lead Sheet" anyway?

[voxsss]

ok when you open the mixer, tracks are yellow...right click and add a real track..they turn green...youll soon get hang of it...

[Midnight Blues]

ok when you open the mixer, tracks are yellow...right click and add a real track..they turn green...youll soon get hang of it...

Thanks! I'll give it a shot.

[voxsss]

ive just played a dozen or so of the Jazz guitar solos without real tracks..theyre not bad at all..not rubbishing midi sounds at all....after all your not doing a performance..your getting the notes down and the phrasing...rhythms etc..add them when you wish... I like the B3 organ with no bass just drums..good luck midnight any questions just shoot..i know about %25 of the program..lol

[fep]

I like to pick on of the real track band styles, select the demo chord progressions and make up / sing melodies and lyrics.

[fep]

And, you can slow down the audio, just click in the tempo box and type in a tempo or use the up/down arrows to adjust tempo. Changing digital audio speed has been around for a long time and BIAB has been doing it for a long time. If you change the tempo too much from the tempo the audio was recorded at you'll get artifacts, kind of sounds like someone put a chorus effect on the tracks (it's not bad but if you know what to listen for you might be able to detect it).

[Midnight Blues]

ive just played a dozen or so of the Jazz guitar solos without real tracks..theyre not bad at all..not rubbishing midi sounds at all....after all your not doing a performance..your getting the notes down and the phrasing...rhythms etc..add them when you wish... I like the B3 organ with no bass just drums..good luck midnight any questions just shoot..i know about %25 of the program..lol

Thanks voxsss, I really appreciate it!

[Midnight Blues]

I like to pick on of the real track band styles, select the demo chord progressions and make up / sing melodies and lyrics.

For whatever reason, I was unable to use J140 PS.STY, entitled "Jazz Cool Trio" from the "Style Picker"? It's like a "Real Track", with piano, acoustic bass and drums. I guess it might be a demo? Anyway, I contacted PG Music to inquire (in hindsight, it wasn't a good idea) and they had me do a "Rebuild". After the rebuild, I lost approximately half (maybe more?) of the selections I had and the ones I have left appear to be all Midi files.I'm bummed!

[DanielleOM]

Just started using BIAB 2019 myself and I find it's a great help especially for identifying timing problems.

The style picker does have me confused as it keeps bringing up styles where tracks are shown as ** NA **.


Danielle