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Does any one have enough experience with pro tools to pass on their thoughts about using it in a home studio?
wiz
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01-22-2012 01:20 AM
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There are other options that may be less costly and/or less restrictive. (I'm thinking Reaper, for one.)
My own experience is with Sonar.
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I'm a long time ProTools user. I'm a fan, primarily because of workflow. I'm not sure what restrictions the previous poster is referring to. Reaper is definitely an alternative. There are some others as well.
If you're looking for a scratchpad, Reaper will do great. If you're looking for something that you'll be using for more full featured production, then that's really where Pro Tools shines - my opinion of course. There's lots of ProTools hate out there, just take it all with a grain of salt. I feel as tho most of that are amateurs or semi-pros rooting for an underdog whereas you'll find most pros who use protools all day long understand that they are all just tools - a means to an end and you should use whichever you're most comfortable with.
Do you have any specifc questions or requirements you're looking to fill?
-s
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I've been using a ProTools Digi001 setup for years. Pretty simple & straightforward, imo.
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Been using ProTools for over 20 years now and still use it every day in my work. I run a PTools HD Accel Rig. I also have used Logic and Digital Performer.
It's a wonderful workhorse but I would say it depends on your requirements.
If you are a composer and want to get creative then it may not be my first choice. Probably Reaper or Logic. Logic has a steep learning curve but comes with a great set of instruments. A lot of composers and orchestrators use Logic.
Some composers and orchestrators use ProTools but you have to know your rig and be able to troubleshoot and incorporate other programs to run Virtual Instruments.
If your compositional needs are not to large then PTools can do the job.
I make my living as a composer and I use ProTools to do it but I use it in conjunction with other apps.
ProTools is capable of many things but its main strength is as an audio recorder. For that job I would argue that there is none better.
Performance will also vary on computer platform..... if you use Mac or PC. Most PT guys use Macs.
There are PC guys using PTools and claiming good performance and stability.
Perhaps you could experiment with Reaper and see what you think. Otherwise there seems to be some good deals going for ProTools and interface options.
Once you have learned one of these apps then it's easier to learn another one so you could move across to another app in the future.
If you are going to be recording bands or other artists and generally using lots of audio tracks then go with ProTools.
If you want to compose and create then perhaps Reaper or Logic.Last edited by Philco; 01-22-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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Protools is a great "front end" for Logic and other more modern software. Protools still sounds best for audio recording, but is lacking in the MIDI department. I've also found that folks using PCs have far more trouble with Protools than Mac users. If you're using a Mac, I would highly recommend Logic, even the smaller version is quite extensive in its "extras".
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I used Protools on a Mac when taking a college recording class. At home I've used Sonar Producer and Reaper on a PC at home.
Protools seems to be the big boy on the block in that it seems to be the most used at professional recording studios. I didn't care for it as I had to use a separate software for midi work. And, it didn't have as many plug-ins and effects that came with the purchase compared to Sonar or Reaper, at least there were hardly any effects choices on the ProTools software at the college. This last issue may not be that important as there are so many free plug-ins on the internet.
I like Sonar and Reaper about equally as a product except... I prefer Reaper because it's less expensive, more efficient on computer use, you get a much longer free upgrade path, and you buy one license for multiple computers.
Recording quality wise for audio, I can't tell a difference between any of these three products. They all sound great to me.
One more thing... Howard, are you aware that you already have 'RealBand' recording software that came with BIAB? I haven't used it but a lot of the BIAB users are happy with it.
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Yes, thanks for reminding me, Frank. I have never tried it but I will try just for the education.
wiz
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I have used Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Audacity and Garageband on an amateur engineer level. IMO unless you're seriously interested in pro-level audio engineering, buying Pro Tools is massive overkill and a waste of money.
If you just want to have a DAW set up for home recording stuff I would go with free software, there's no need for the expense and complexity of Pro Tools.
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Scott -
Originally Posted by scottwilson
Maybe you can help me. I'm a first-rank newbie to ProTools, but LOVE what I can tell about it - think I'm gonna love it.
Problem is, when I record my acoustic guitar thru a condenser mic and then hit the Play arrow, I hear nothing. In fact, I can open any sound file on the PC and hear nothing, because apparently something's displacing my sound driver. I can reboot and I have sound again.
I'm recording through M-Audio's Fast Track standard, running Vista SP2, 2GB RAM in this laptop.
Any ideas what's going wrong?
Thanks in advance,
KJ
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What are some of the things ProTools can't do that Logic can do? Originally Posted by Philco
When composers use Logic, do they have to export files to ProTools?
I was thinking about buying ProTools soon, but this post made me think I'm more of a Logic guy. But I can't mix a cocktail let alone audio so I assume I'll be sending things out to have them professionally mixed. But then I looked around and it looks like exporting from Logic to ProTools is a monster pain in the arse if you have a large number of tracks and/or are doing it day in day out.
Do any professional mixers mix in Logic?
Are professional studios capable of recording in Logic? Say if I go in with a tune but need to have a professional drummer overdub.
I'll have a huge number of tunes and each will have a decent number of tracks. I'm already moving tracks around from Finale to Audacity and having issues with the click track. I imagine that I'll be doing everything short of recording a symphony orchestra. For example, recording vocals (probably some vocal duets), recording drums, sending guitar into an amp modeler and recording that, using computer instruments (a lot of piano), recording a lot of things at home, recording a bunch of things in the studio, needing to have somebody mix things well, and probably a few more things I can't think of right now.
Thanks in advanceLast edited by jster; 04-29-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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I was using Logic as the front end for Protools for a few years, but recently finally gave up the Protools. It is the finest audio recorder, I think, but it isn't necessarily the most useful DAW for home use. Logic has such a vast array of tools that it's really another whole creative aspect of music-making, and it records well and easily, with built-in amplifiers and signal processing that can make one's direct-recorded guitar sound like it's coming through a boutique amp in a great hall. It aslso is easier to use for sampling than Protools. Protools is a really great DAW for pro studios, but getting the Logic tracks into Protools is not at all difficult, you can even email them to the studio, which I do for demo work all the time.
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Sorry, I missed this a few months ago. Neither a fan nor a hater, just saying ... Some of the ProTools versions have limitations on number of audio tracks that you can have in a project, and the MIDI implementation/support may or may not be to one's liking. There also are less expensive options, depending upon one's purposes. That's all. Originally Posted by scottwilson
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I reopened the thread at #11. It just seems that if you need to run your tracks through professionals, recording engineers at a studio, or a professional mixing engineer, then you need to get them into ProTools format, and that seems like a real pain. I was watching some videos and it looked like a real drag for say 100 tunes x 15 tracks. I was getting ready to make the ProTools plunge. Then I read Philco's comments and I certainly like having lots of options. Basically, I have found that I use just about every tool I come across. So I was thinking maybe Logic was better. I have only gotten my feet wet with computer instruments/sounds but I could imagine doing quite a bit on the computer and just having live vocals, guitars and drums. So maybe ProTools ain't so good for that. Originally Posted by M-ster
I particularly hate it when I'm willing to spend some money, but not sure if I will really be getting what is best.Last edited by jster; 04-29-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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I'm about to launch Pro Tools 9 just so I can consolidate the files to export them to mix in DP 7.24. I just like DP because I'm most familiar with it. BTW I don't think any DAW sounds better of worse than any other. They all sound like -- nothing but the digital 1s and 0s. There would be a difference in basic plugins, but most people use 3rd party ones anyway.
I've had PT for years but I don't really like it. And that's not a criticism. I'm just not as familiar with it. I have to still stop and think. DP I know it like the back of my hand, so it goes faster. Just a personal preference.
Also PT, now owned by Avid, has always made some screwy business decisions and scrapped one format for another, forcing the user, if he wants to stay on top, to spend exorbitant amounts of money. But the HD version is great. It does rely on the commuter so overdubs are seamless. No latency, which is something every other DAW has to workaround. But you pay for it.
The main drawback is the limitation it puts on the amount of tracks. No other DAW has those kind of limitations. The price of using PT.
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What is DP?
I hate latency. I thought that if I got a Mac and ProTools then I wouldn't have to worry about latency.
What about when you are sending your master out to get printed? Don't you need to put it in ProTools? What's the format for masters?
Can professional studios work with Logic? Or are they going to want everything in PT? It is that interaction that has me worried.
What are the track limitations??
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My last job I was doing post-production editing with ProTools and great tool, but huge learning curve. There are other tools with smaller learning curve.
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DP = Digital Performer. Sorry for not being more clear. I don't know why you'd think you'd have to put everything in Pro Tools to send it out for mastering. PT is just a DAW, which is a Digital Audio Workstation. Nothing magical in the name. Originally Posted by jster
What is DP?
I hate latency. I thought that if I got a Mac and ProTools then I wouldn't have to worry about latency.
What about when you are sending your master out to get printed? Don't you need to put it in ProTools? What's the format for masters?
Can professional studios work with Logic? Or are they going to want everything in PT? It is that interaction that has me worried.
What are the track limitations??
I don't have latency, or no latency you'd ever be able to detect. But my system uses Metric Halo as the interface. Not unlike Pro Tools proprietary hardware. Not completely unlike. It controls the audio and you can use the Metric Halo mixing board and plug-ins as the front end, or back end to whatever DAW you choose to use.
Many professional studios use Logic, or have it because its a very popular program. But you can do what I do - if I have clients I have Pro Tools and Logic and Ableton Live but prefer to use DP. If the client brings in a session done in PT I stay in PT. If he has it in Logic 8 I can stay there , but I'm not planning at this point to upgrade to to 9 or 10. Logic is very confusing for me.
If I'm going to another studio I just export it as audio and import it into PT for the session, if the studio uses PT. All you have to do is cal the studio and find out hat they use. But you have to know what you want to do. If you just want to record drums and upright, for instance, and take it home and overdub guitar, that's all easy. Export/Import. Then back again. I'm in the process of doing that as we speak.
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Such a confusing and option filled scenario. Jster.......to me you sound like a potential Logic Pro user. Or DP as Henry pointed out.
Now I could also add Cubase and a few others and we are back to square one again......confused.
They are all good and all have slightly different work flows.
But there are some important decisions.
If you hate latency ( I don't know anyone who doesn't) then you are going to have to pay for a good interface to take care of that. The interface is where your analogue signal gets turned into digital on the way in and digital to analogue on the way out.
Hence A>D D>A converter.
This = $
I could never work with latency......because I'm recording live musicians. Singers can't and won't deal with it and shouldn't be expected to.
If you want your computer to handle all tasks and just want to buy a cheap interface then you will have latency.
Regardless of what software you use.
There are some great new interfaces around.
If I sold my PT HD Rig I would buy this in a heartbeat
Apollo - The High Resolution Audio Interface with Classic Analog Sound
and probably use it with Logic Pro or the new PreSonus | Press Releases - PreSonus Studio One Professional 2 Wins 2012 Resolution Award!
So ......my answer to one of your questions is buy a good interface and either Logic, DP or Presonus.
Not ProTools.
ProTools is a great audio only app. When it comes to using Virtual Instrument plugins PT is a pain. In fact I and many other composers use another app in conjunction with PT called Vienna Ensemble Pro. This allows us to load AU plugs to our hearts content and overcomes the 32 bit limitation of PT. That limitation only allow for 2 gigs of memory and we need way more than that.
The new PTools version 11 is 64 bit and will overcome this but it will take a few years of ironing out I would imagine.
Anyway......IF you go Logic then it's not hard to export for PT. Logic has a freeze function which allows you to print a track with all FX and export it.
I often mix tracks for Logic guys and they simply print out "stems" of all the tracks starting at bar 0 or 1.
Your biggest decision and the one that will make recording a joy or a sorrow is what interface you go with and how much latency it has.
Good luck.
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Philco speaks truth. Nobody likes latency, but you have to pay for it to go away. The Metric Halo interfaces are expensive. I have ULN-8s. The affordable one is the ULN-2, which is perfect for the bedroom musician. 2 ins and 2 outs with a bunch of trick bag stuff. Plugins and latency free monitoring; headphones cues. Brilliant stuff. The Apollo is cool too. Nothing good comes cheap. But the more you know EXACTLY what it s you want to, the easier it is to find the best fit.
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Bububut, that interface costs as much as a good two week vacation.
Thanks so much to both of you for explaining things. Maybe I'll just look into renting. It seems like a good basic set up for the home would cost about $4k (mic, interface, mac, software), then I'd have to add on studio costs later on. Maybe I'll skip the interface and mics for the home for now and just focus on getting tracks down with virtual instruments. Then I'll rent studio time for the rest, even the guitar stuff. I never thought about using virtual instruments, but I got Finale Songwriter and I thought the piano sounded pretty good, and has excellent time :P , so then I started wondering how many live musicians I actually needed. The virtual guitar sounds pretty terrible, but the piano sounds good, and the acoustic bass ain't bad.
Philco, what percentage of your tracks are virtual and what percentage use actual human beings? I ask you because I don't think Henry uses too many virtual ones judging by what he's got on his site.Last edited by jster; 04-29-2013 at 10:16 PM.
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Depends on the session but if it's me producing then live would be
• singer
• BV singer
• Bass Player
• Guitar
Everything else is virtual.
• Drums and percussion
• Keyboards of all descriptions.
• Orchestration.
The elephant in the room is the time invested in learning your new gear. This can be all consuming and to the detriment of your final goal........which I assume is making some music.
I have seen a number of talented musicians disappear down this rabbit hole never to appear again. They become obsessed with gear and recording techniques and stop writing.
There is a thing with men and computers.......and recording gear is about the biggest playground there is. A man will simply disappear inside the machine when he discovers all the wonderful toys.
It's a distraction of epic proportions.
Or it's your new career path!
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I'm not Philco, but I play him on the internet. I use some virtual instruments for writing at home.
I'm forced to start rethinking my own uses. I had my own studio - not all of it was convenient. I had to drive a good 20-30 minutes, or more in heavy traffic to get there. It didn't cost a lot for rent but $600 a month adds up if you're not pulling in enough clients. My home set up is ideal, although I don't have a lot of treatments. I can do basic tracking at a very high quality. But it makes more sense for me to simply rent a studio for when I want to record the band. $300 gets me between 4 and 6 hours. Then I don't have to worry about rent, heat and air, insurance, internet, etc.. I can record vocals, guitars, basic parts at home. I do miss having the studio, but it was a pain, even at that, to get the guys to come to rehearse/record. Musicians! You can build it but they probably won't come. I did it for the band. Sheesh. Stupid me.
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You have to remain very focused and, as I've said many times, KNOW WHAT YOUR GOALS ARE so as not to get lost down that rabbit hole.
For myself, I got really tired of programming drums and bass and keyboards. I decided that my time was worth more practicing guitar, playing guitar and writing actual music. Then getting the guys, hiring them, bartering, whatever, to come and lay the music the way a professional does it. I wasted so many hours creating drum tracks, and bass tracks and grooves. But if I wrote out the chart and gave it to a great drummer, he'd do what I spent days at in 20 minutes. And it was better. It sounded like real drums because it was. But mainly he came up with parts better than I did, most of the time. A scratch track is always good, mostly, for giving him a concept of what I wanted.
I am mixing a CD of a recording I did a few months ago with the great Tommy Brechtlein on drums. This is exactly what we did. Some demos but mainly well written charts. Two days and he and the pianist kicked serious ass. We did 16 original tunes in TWO days!
I use the studio for very specific things. I don't write in it. I write on paper or with Sibelius. I keep the music in my head, the guitar or on virtual paper. I don't use the playback engine except to check out parts. I think the music should remain in your head. Otherwise you play it to death and play your mistakes and it gets stuck the way you performed it. My imagination gets stuck by what I'm hearing, rather than something that's continually in motion and moveable in my mind. I change keys and grooves and bridges. But as soon as it's down in the DAW as a demo it becomes less moveable and I listen to it too much. I squeeze the life out of it before it's finished.
The glitter of the gear is alluring, but it's NOT music. Music is something you practice every day. You can get lost in this other thing, like Philco said. If I'm recording, mixing, mastering I use the studio. Otherwise it's off. I'm guitaring. My first order of the day is guitar. Once I've done my 2-3 hours I can fire it up, if I need to.
That's just me and my ideas. My suggestion is know what you want it for and what you want to accomplish. The learning curve is not light. Engineers make careers out of this thing for a good reason. Now because anyone can afford SOMETHING in this area they think they can do it. But not everyone can. Or they stop playing their real instrument.Last edited by henryrobinett; 04-29-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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My brother uses it a lot. He has used it when recording videos of my playing. When you get the hang of it, it's apparently very simple and straightforward. Of course, there are different interfaces in different programs and they all take a little time to learn.
I personally have bad experiences with ProTools. I spent a fortune on a home studio setup only to find that ProTools would run fine on Windows Vista for a week before refusing to run at all. There are tons of issues with ProTools on PC although on Mac it supposedly runs fine. My brother has the old Windows XP. It runs fine on that OS but throws a few tantrums every now and then.
Personally I prefer Cubase. Very easy to learn, simple interface and runs smoothly. The only obstacle is setting it up to recognize and locate VSTs. There can be a few conflicts in the configuration process and you have to take care to install all your VSTs in the same directory. However, once you got that sorted out it runs like a dream IMO.
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