The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I just got myself a nifty USB interface that came with Studio One software - pretty impressive, but I can see I need a way of getting MIDI into it to make the most of it (I never recorded before). Since I don't play keyboard, does anyone have experience with a Guitar to MIDI interface?
    Thanks Guys!
    Tim.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I've been using a Roland GK-2A into a Roland GI-10 into a MIDI-to-USB cable that came with 'Cakewalk USB Music Pack', which includes Cakewalk Music Creator recording software.

    The first thing to know about guitar MIDI interfaces is that you're going to get some lag time between the pick hitting the string and the sound leaving the speakers, monitors, or amp, whatever you're using. I work around this problem by mainly using 'slow' instruments with swelling attack volume, like slow strings, sweep pad, etc. That makes the delayed timing almost imperceptible, but limits how you can use MIDI in a live situation.

    The second thing to know is that the guitar strings become extremely touch-sensitive, and your playing technique has to change somewhat to reduce falsely triggered notes, doubled notes, dropped notes. The pickup adjustments and individual string-sensitivity settings on the GI-10 become critical here.

    If you can accept the fact that guitar MIDI interfaces are in no way the equal of keyboard MIDI controllers, are limited in application, and are way too expensive for what you get, then there are a couple of uses for them.

    You can use your standard pickups normally while simultaneously sending the MIDI output to a slow-attack instrument such as slow strings, for a really lovely backing sound that isn't pre-recorded. The slowness prevents the backing from stepping on your guitar part, or from sounding like two instruments playing exactly the same thing (even though they are).

    Second, you can record laggy MIDI tracks with the inevitable dropped and doubled notes, then fix them manually via mouse and computer keyboard, and quantization function of your music program. But it's tedious and frustrating. However, once they're fixed, you can assign any instruments sounds and/or fx you want to them.

  4. #3
    Many thanks Strumcat - I'm glad I asked, and I appreciate the complete response. I think I'll work on my keyboard technique!

  5. #4

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    I do not use a ton of Midi, but I do use a guitar synth regularly. I have a Telecaster set up with the GHOST pickup system that I feed into a Roland GR-20 synth unit. Strumcat is completely right about everything he said. You have to accept that guitar midi/synth and keyboard midi/synth are two different animals.

    99% of what I use the synth for are strings and pads usually while I am playing the chords on guitar.

    With a keyboard, you press a key and that generates a signal, it is almost instantaneous. With a guitar, you play a note, the hexaphonic pickup analyzes the string vibrations and then determines what signal to send and then it is recieved by the midi unit and processed. It is a much longer process.

    Using guitar synth has been very fun and definitely has become a part of "my" sound, but you have to understand the limitations from the beginning.

  6. #5

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    Probably the easiest and most cost effective option, that doesn't require you to modify your guitar or add pickups, are provided by Sonuus (www.sonuus.com). I haven't yet tried them myself, buut there are some impressive YouTube videos.

  7. #6

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  8. #7

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  9. #8

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    RMC pickups system is much faster than Roland; fast enough for McLaughlin, in fact, and I hear no lag on any of my RMC-equipped guitars.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    RMC pickups system is much faster than Roland; fast enough for McLaughlin, in fact, and I hear no lag on any of my RMC-equipped guitars.
    Sounds interesting and worth looking into. Guitar MIDI really is great when it works. I've heard that there are better pickups than the GK-2A, with less latency and better tracking. Thanks for the tip.

  11. #10

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    The GHOST pickup from Graphtech is similar to the RMC system. That's what I have in my guitar, and I have been pleased with it.

    I have the GHOST pickup in my Tele, and I had a Godin with the RMC, and honestly I couldn't tell much of a difference. I know that Paul Jackson Jr uses the RMC system as well.

  12. #11

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    Graphtec GHOST system is equivalent to the RMC. The key is that they are not magnetic, which means they also work (and very well) on nylon strings. I have just outfitted my 7-string classical with the RMC rig, it's truly awesome. Generally, I leave the synth settings off for strings 5, 6 and 7, and use the first four strings for synth sounds.

  13. #12

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    Played a nylon-string Godin with RMC at Guitar Center. Very nice guitar, but at $1495 out of range for me. Godin claims their MIDI guitars are designed to optimize the RMC system, so they may perform better than installed ones. I think there are less expensive MIDI Godins. I may start saving my pennies in hope of finding one with steel strings that works well as a MIDI instrument, and sounds and plays well as a guitar.

  14. #13

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    So if you get the a Ghost-equipped bridge and you get the Hexpander kit, you still have to get an audio to midi converter like a Roland GR unit, right? Or an Axon? Those are pretty expensive so it looks like overall you're looking at about $700 if you have a Floyd Rose (pickups + electronics kit + converter)? Say you get a really cheap midi synth, like an old one, a used GR-30. Can you just use it with your computer as a controller for a soft synth and get a larger palette of sounds?

    I've heard that older units like the GR-30 can only output two notes at the same time, is that true? If that's the case and you can't really play chords it's almost like one of Sonuus' gizmos would make more sense I suppose...

  15. #14

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    Well, the GR-09, 30, 33, etc. can all output 6 notes at a time, and can be programmed for a different sound on each string. If you can find a GR-09, that has some very fat sounds in it, it's easy to use and works well, although it doesn't have a built-in pedal. But you can probably pick one up for $100, try to get one with the expansion board in it.

  16. #15

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    Ah, OK, thanks for the info Ron. I'll be looking for a cheap one on ebay. Can they be used as a controller to control the soft synths on a computer?

  17. #16

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    Ah, correction: the Floyd Rose loaded with the Ghost piezos is $355. Still, the Floyd alone is probably an upgrade to the stock Jackson bridge...

  18. #17

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    So question: considering that a ghost-equipped Floyd Rose bridge costs in the vicinity of $350, wouldn't it be much cheaper to equip an electro-acoustic guitar with such a system? I'm guessing that the existing piezo pickup would not work because it doesn't have an output for each string so you'd need to replace the existing preamp anyway and install dedicated piezos in the bridge, but I'm guessing it'd probably cost much less than a ghost-equipped Floyd...

  19. #18

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    Not necessarily. The pickups are around $50 each, the preamp maybe $200-300 and installation could run $300-400. It just cost me about $600 to install such a system in my nylon 7-string, and I already had the preamp. Doing the work yourself saves quite a bit, but it's touchy work, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you're experienced in guitar repair and have the right tools. Brian Moore, Carvin and Godin all sell MIDI-ready instruments with RMC or Ghost systems, used you can find them for $700, new they're $1000-2000. And, yes, they can run the soft-synths in a computer, or even modules. McLaughlin is now running everything off his laptop using Logic's Mainstage program. I've found the sounds I need with a Roland GR-33 with lots of tweaking.
    Last edited by ronjazz; 06-03-2012 at 03:42 AM.

  20. #19

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    Roland GK2 with GR 30. Mainly used it to input chords into my keyboard for sequencing (you can input all six strings at once). There are a few good 'patches' on the GR-30,especially the Sax.
    With so much available on the internet anymore in terms of backing tracks and easy software such as BIAB ,guitar synths have less appeal due to the glitches, especially with the older models such as mine.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Not necessarily. The pickups are around $50 each, the preamp maybe $200-300 and installation could run $300-400. It just cost me about $600 to install such a system in my nylon 7-string, and I already had the preamp. Doing the work yourself saves quite a bit, but it's touchy work, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you're experienced in guitar repair and have the right tools.
    Well, the Graphtech Ghost MIDI system for acoustics is like $300, so a bit less than what you quoted. That includes all pickups, saddle, acoustic preamp and hexpander. So everything excluding installation really... I've never done work on a guitar other than changing pickups (and, well, major butcher/customization work on my old Squier ), but I still feel somewhat comfortable doing it: I'm not completely useless with my hands (I made a tube amp for my guitar as well as its speaker cab, and was pretty happy with the results), and it's an Ovation, so the back and 'sides' are not made of wood.

    Now my main question mark is which synth to use. I think a Roland probably, but there are so many old models I don't know which one to choose: GR-1 GR-09? GR-20? This one looks pretty cool with the pedal. GR-3-? GR-33? GR-50?! I've heard good things about the GR-1...

  22. #21

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    GR-09 sounds great. GR 30, 33, and 50 or 55 have best tech.

  23. #22

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    What about the GR-20? I've read good reviews about this one. I'm baffled that Roland have so many versions of what does not seem like a very mainstream product!

  24. #23

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    I have a GR-20

    I do not use it for midi, I know nothing about that.

    it tracks very well, and has some very nice sounds.