yup, Julian Lage is a monster...

[StuartF]

Why? Honest question.

Why is an audience that pays to hear music owed music it can listen to? Well, that's implicit in the deal. One pays, another plays. If the player fails to satisfy the payor, the payor will find a more satisfactory player. As I also said, playing something you should know your audience doesn't want to hear is disrespectful.

"Who pays the piper calls the tune," and whatnot.

If you go out for dinner and they give you rotten eggs and you complain and the chef says your palate is just too vulgar to appreciate his artisanal eggs, he and the restaurant have lost a customer forever.

[ccroft]

Music has slowed waaaay down. I think you can capitalize on trends now, because it takes so long for shifts...

If you think of chart topping music from a generation ago, there's like 5 years between Michael Jackson's "Bad" and Nirvana's "Nevermind."

Popular music today really doesn't sound any different that it did 20 years ago....

Maybe I should've mentioned the guy said it in 1983... :-)

[Jonah]

Why is an audience that pays to hear music owed music it can listen to? Well, that's implicit in the deal. One pays, another plays. If the player fails to satisfy the payor, the payor will find a more satisfactory player. As I also said, playing something you should know your audience doesn't want to hear is disrespectful.

"Who pays the piper calls the tune," and whatnot.

If you go out for dinner and they give you rotten eggs and you complain and the chef says your palate is just too vulgar to appreciate his artisanal eggs, he and the restaurant have lost a customer forever.

You put it as a pure "capitalism". Buy and sell, customers and the salesman/producer.
And that has its place too in certain context.

But this puts forward selling as a main goal of artistic activity (whether we mean it or not when we say 'one pays, one plays we do it.)

But it is not.

there were periods in the history when relationships between artist and the one who pays for his art are built on a different logic.


Comparison with food is not quite relevant imho.
Rotten eggs or poorly prepared dish? First is rather more or less conventional fact, second is an opinion.
Can one have an opinion and expressopenly enly? Of course.
But here is the thing.
To sell is not always the goal, you do not wat it, ok I lose a one customer. I can live with that, I am not there to please everyone. My customer will come another day.


Jazzers also often think in terns of commercial music and business because jazz originally worked that way.
But in Europe jazz venues are often supported finanvially as well as classical music.

But I think people often put it into extreme opposiotion: artist who should please his audience and artist who does not give a d*mn about it.

There pretencious mediocrities who fill the halls of Bienalle who pretend to be artists but they are salesmen that found the market.

And there are some street or Cafe players who seem to fulfill every customer's wish but when they do it they still do their thing.

There are VanGoghs and Faulkners who will not change a line to make it more salable and they are right.

Besides there were different periods in the history... the role of an artist in society, his position was not always the same.

Democratization of society brought democratization of arts and culture too.
When majority reigns the level goes down inevitably.
But the minority in this case form snobbish and pretentious opposition being a part of the game too.


Conception 'I am an artist, I see it that way' is relatively new. And what is interesting that it is more often used by mediocre philistines than by artists (with artists I do not care what he says I care what he does).

[ruger9]

Aesthetic experience has been replaced by sensation. Attention is a lost art.

Absolutely. You've managed to describe SO MUCH of what's happening in society (and not just with "art") with so few words. Well done!

[ModesSchmodes]

Why is an audience that pays to hear music owed music it can listen to? Well, that's implicit in the deal. One pays, another plays. If the player fails to satisfy the payor, the payor will find a more satisfactory player. As I also said, playing something you should know your audience doesn't want to hear is disrespectful.

"Who pays the piper calls the tune," and whatnot.

If you go out for dinner and they give you rotten eggs and you complain and the chef says your palate is just too vulgar to appreciate his artisanal eggs, he and the restaurant have lost a customer forever.

You know, I feel like you said a lot without actually explaining much, but maybe I'm just not following. Why is it implicit in the deal? Is it an economic reason, or moral or whatever?

What, for example, happens if I buy tickets to an act I don't know? How much am I owed? How do you quantify this?

If I understand your perspective correctly you think that a financial transaction for art in the direction of consumer to artist comes with an obligation in the direction of artist to consumer. Is this a moral obligation? Why are the consumers owed to get what they want from a financial transaction to an artist? Especially in jazz where we can say that the appeal of jazz is to be in the presence of a singular momentary individual expression.

[pauln]

If I understand your perspective correctly you think that a financial transaction for art in the direction of consumer to artist comes with an obligation in the direction of artist to consumer.

Historically in philosophy of music the
alternative is known as nihil pecuniam

*money for nothin'

[spencer096]

You put it as a pure "capitalism". Buy and sell, customers and the salesman/producer.
And that has its place too in certain context.

But this puts forward selling as a main goal of artistic activity (whether we mean it or not when we say 'one pays, one plays we do it.)

But it is not.

there were periods in the history when relationships between artist and the one who pays for his art are built on a different logic.


Comparison with food is not quite relevant imho.
Rotten eggs or poorly prepared dish? First is rather more or less conventional fact, second is an opinion.
Can one have an opinion and expressopenly enly? Of course.
But here is the thing.
To sell is not always the goal, you do not wat it, ok I lose a one customer. I can live with that, I am not there to please everyone. My customer will come another day.


Jazzers also often think in terns of commercial music and business because jazz originally worked that way.
But in Europe jazz venues are often supported finanvially as well as classical music.

But I think people often put it into extreme opposiotion: artist who should please his audience and artist who does not give a d*mn about it.

There pretencious mediocrities who fill the halls of Bienalle who pretend to be artists but they are salesmen that found the market.

And there are some street or Cafe players who seem to fulfill every customer's wish but when they do it they still do their thing.

There are VanGoghs and Faulkners who will not change a line to make it more salable and they are right.

Besides there were different periods in the history... the role of an artist in society, his position was not always the same.

Democratization of society brought democratization of arts and culture too.
When majority reigns the level goes down inevitably.
But the minority in this case form snobbish and pretentious opposition being a part of the game too.


Conception 'I am an artist, I see it that way' is relatively new. And what is interesting that it is more often used by mediocre philistines than by artists (with artists I do not care what he says I care what he does).

sir, this is an arby's.

[Jonah]

arby's... nihil pecuniam... I begin to think we are too smart here for jazz...

[AaronMColeman]

Someone just posted the interview with Julian Lage and Rick Beato. I'm as impressed with how he talks about music as I am with how he plays music. He seems to really enjoy making music and doing it his own way.

[Christian Miller]

Historically in philosophy of music the
alternative is known as nihil pecuniam

*money for nothin'

Did the Great Thinkers also opine on the matter or ‘chicks for free’ or on the necessity of moving ‘these microwave ovens?’

[Christian Miller]

Btw the the best thing about that song is Sting coming in and singing a line from ‘Don’t Stand so Close to Me’ getting co-songwriter credits, royalties and quite literally money for nothing.

[himself]

There are many Julian Lage videos, but I have to post this new one. An acoustic heaven.

[Average Joe]

The kind of solo in the OP would be annoying if it was all the player did all evening. But in Lage's case, it clearly wont be. As an audience member it can be tremendous fun to see a band blowing some steam for a couple of minutes. Everything doesn't have to be undying musical perfection. Besides, as a life long Sco fan that clip is positively mellow compared to some of the mayhem I've witnessed

Lage finally started clicking for me. For the longest time I found him too "nice", a virtuoso to be sure but a bit too pleasant. Lately Love Hurts have been growing on me. I guess I'm finally ready for what he have to offer.

[alltunes]

The piece just above is called Gardens from Julian’s amazing acoustic album World’s Fair.

Pat Metheny and Julian’s solo acoustic tours almost collided. I think Pat is playing Homer NY any day. Some good music happening in upstate NY!

[Litterick]

Margaret Glaspy, assisted by her husband.

[Sam Sherry]

Aw heck yeah!
Look at how they stay out of each others' way and make that music fly!

[ccroft]

Lucky girl! Lucky guy! (they deserve their good fortune)

[FourOnSix]

Aw heck yeah!
Look at how they stay out of each others' way!

That right there is the secret formula of a good relationship.

[James W]

There are many Julian Lage videos, but I have to post this new one. An acoustic heaven.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. He's so brilliant, often I find myself rewinding the video a bit to listen to something he just played that blew my mind.

[wolflen]

Some good music happening in upstate NY!

Yes it does..

Spent time In Brockport..played in the University theater..The Magic Stone..a Michael Cruickshank play..

gave some lessons to a few locals and had a magical week with dear friends and musicians..

many unknown talents in upstate NY..as well as known

[himself]

I'm here just to confirm the thread name.
Yestarday I visited a concert of Julian with Jorge Roeder. I'm really happy he is in Europe, this does not happen too often. It was amazing. The best description for me is "it was the music".
Julian has very special and recognizable tone, so finely controlled, extremly dynamic and somehow palm-muted perhaps. He played his Colling OM, but the sound reminded me an archtop sound more. He hardly let his guitar ring openly. And his mysterious strange bends!
The blend with double bass was also amazing. The venue (in Prague) was small, intimate and just 100 km from my place
The encore Day and Age rendition was a miracle. Such a joy!