yup, Julian Lage is a monster...

[Doctor Jeff]

That's fair; I can't speak for others but I'll try to explain my feeling about it.

It is not so much about the solo itself; it is about the one doing it. If I heard some kid playing it with his garage band I might imagine that he had some future potential.and was just goofing off. When Lage does it he's departed from what we know he is capable.

It reminds me of the Wes video playing 'round Midnight in Europe - serious audience, serious suits and ties all around, serious jazz music, and an exceptional example of what Wes was capable of doing musically.

Then one day seeing this from the Hollywood Palace - game show audience with patronizing host, damn ridiculous orange suit, pop song Wendy good God, and limited playing that could have been anyone with two years on the instrument.

He probably made more money in that one TV appearance than his whole European tour...

Regarding tastes, remember the scene in Spartacus...

CRASSUS (nobleman): Do you lie?
ANTONINUS (slave): Not if I can avoid it.
CRASSUS: Have you ever dishonoured the gods?
ANTONINUS: No master.
CRASSUS: Do you refrain from these vices out of respect for... moral virtues?
ANTONINUS: Yes master.
CRASSUS (After a long pause): Do you eat oysters?
ANTONINUS: When I have them master.
CRASSUS: Do you eat snails?
ANTONINUS: No master.
CRASSUS: Do you consider the eating of oysters to be moral and the eating of snails to be immoral?
ANTONINUS: No master.
CRASSUS: Of course not... It is all a matter of taste.
ANTONINUS: Yes master.
CRASSUS: And taste is not the same as appetite, and therefore not a question of morals, is it? (He begins to get out of the bath)
ANTONINUS: It could be argued so master.
CRASSUS: My robe, Antonius. (Antoninus dresses him, Crassus gives him a sidelong glance). My taste includes both snails and oysters...

[ModesSchmodes]

That's fair; I can't speak for others but I'll try to explain my feeling about it.

It is not so much about the solo itself; it is about the one doing it. If I heard some kid playing it with his garage band I might imagine that he had some future potential.and was just goofing off. When Lage does it he's departed from what we know he is capable.

Thanks for that. I guess that's really just a case of differing aesthetic impressions, as I don't really find this solo to be that out of line with Julian's playing at this time. Maybe a bit more, I don't know, playful than otherwise, but I don't think it's really "below" anything he's done otherwise. The lines are fluid when they need to be, his use of repeated short rhythmic phrases reminds me of Sonny Rollins, and he hits the "big climax(es)" when necessary. Honestly if I heard some kid playing it with his garage band I'd be pretty blown away...

[princeplanet]

My thoughts exactly.
Eddie Van Halen. He's GOD! He can't do ANYTHING wrong!
Wow!
Amazing!
Check this out!

Probably unfair to judge them by these performances, probably not their best nights, and EVH clearly missed one of those taps. Still, credit for being quite adventurous harmonically, I think he said he'd been listening to Bartok and Coltrane on the bus earlier that day.

[Jerzy]

Then one day seeing this from the Hollywood Palace - game show audience with patronizing host, damn ridiculous orange suit, pop song Wendy good God, and limited playing that could have been anyone with two years on the instrument.

Are you absolutely sure you could play like Wes in that show?

[spencer096]

Are you absolutely sure you could play like Wes in that show?

not plugged in and pantomiming? pretty sure i could handle that.

he did a great job pantomiming tho.

[spencer096]

I'm actually a bit surprised at the reactions to the OP here, but different ears I guess... I agree with James, I don't think Julian sounds at all 'out' or ... masturbatory I guess? Which is what I believe people hint at when they say they don't like jazz. I mean, he can get really out there, less so on his solo records I think than say with John Zorn.

But aside from that, I don't really know what people in here don't like about this solo. I've only read that they don't but not exactly why.

"out" is something everyone will weigh differently...for me, it was too outside for me personally to connect with any melody or theme. just didnt get the point of what they were doing. might be a reflection of my listening tastes tho.

but my biggest gripe is his tone. i know someone like him is tired of playing w archtop-types and wants to branch out sonically, but as a listener i found it abrasive.

[Peter C]

Nothing to do with being in or out. Without relistening, I remember first thinking that it was one of those "Clapton shreds" type jokes, in fact the video had a kind of weird vibe. Then I realized that the notes corresponded to fretting hand movements. I found the guitar tone jarring and it generally looked like a jazz guy unsuccessfully trying to quote rock stuff and take it somewhere interesting. On any other day, Julian is a wonderful musician.

[RJVB]

Reminded me of this gem (IMHO ... since we're posting videos of other players):

[StuartF]

Then one day seeing this from the Hollywood Palace - game show audience with patronizing host, damn ridiculous orange suit, pop song Wendy good God, and limited playing that could have been anyone with two years on the instrument.

I'm pretty sure that patronizing host is Herb Alpert, founder of A&M Records and significant pop trumpet player, for whom Wes recorded A Day in the Life.

[Litterick]

Yes, it is Herb. The Hollywood Palace was an hour-long variety show aired by ABC between 1964 and 1970. The show had a different host each week. On this episode (Season 5, number 13, December 12 1967) Alpert also introduced Burt Bacharach, Liza Minelli and Sergio Mendes.

[ragman1]

RJVB -

I'm not sure how many people know Bryn Davies majored in jazz performance at Berklee.

[Cunamara]

Ah, Bryn Davies. Great bass player and harmony singer, loved her stuff with Tony Rice and with Peter Rowan. Now works in a nuclear power plant or something like that.

[JimBobWay]

The Wes harsh takes are more than illustrative of the overall tone of this thread. Bless his soul, Wes endured the tortures of the damned just to get his incredible musical realization into the Market. No offense to Julian, he's doing what he needs to, in an attempt to get his musical message across. When he is freed from the usual marketing machinations, he is a joy to hear, imo. EG the Lloyd band.

I find his work uplifting, and I can see him smiling when he plays. But I think the guy has a tattoo of Bill Frissell somewhere

[AndyV]

For my money, Julian is the most complete and interesting of a handful of younger players on the scene and I almost always enjoy his performances. The depth and breadth of Lage's musicianship beyond jazz is really quite remarkable. I love how a player with his chops can also be a superb, sensitive, accompanist to his paramour, Margaret Glaspy. We all love great improvising but sometimes, just playing the song is can be the highest art form of all.

[Litterick]

Paramour?

[ruger9]

We all love great improvising but sometimes, just playing the song is can be the highest art form of all.

Guitar in music is 90% rhythm. Everyone focuses on soloing/shredding/improvising (and there's nothing wrong with that), but if you ain't got the RHYTHM down, you're dead to me lol. YouTube FULL of players like this. "Listen to me play this very difficult solo I've worked on for a month- I can play it PERFECTLY!" Great... but can you play with actual real people? Can you play rhythm guitar with an actual band?

Then there's the whole "no feel/no soul/sterile" argument. Alot of these YT wunderkinds sound like the guitar version of a drum machine. No thanks.

[AllanAllen]

It's going over some heads so I'll just say this the "Clapton shreds" and "EVH shreds" videos are fakes, joke videos. Someone re-recorded the solo purposely bad as a joke. There are tons of them, it was a thing in the 2000's.

[ccroft]

Julian's well rounded indeed. No Tony Rice, but he holds his own with Chris Eldridge. And on stage with Santana at eight. And with David Grisman, Bela Fleck, and of course Mr Burton all before he was 20. It's quite an upbringing.

So back to jazz: I really enjoyed Blues Connotation when I saw him. I love a guy that loves Ornette. Only other live performance of Ornette I've seen were by the man himself.

(I'd strum a few cowboy chords just to be close to someone like Margaret. Lucky bastard! :-)

[drbhrb]

That’s exactly right. The band should never give the impression that the music is for them instead of the audience.

I don’t agree with this at all. Lots of great music has been made without the intent to kowtow to an audience. And the musical world is lucky for it. Not everything has to be packaged for consumption

[Jimmy Smith]

I thought it was high level playing. It was very creative and original and he utilized his technical skills to execute motives which elevated the music. It isn't music that I would seek out to listen to on my own, but I think it's well done. I prefer traditional, but I do like the modern progressive playing as long as it isn't ridiculous. There's the notion, 'that's not jazz, you can't do that!' Well why not? Isn't the point of jazz to take the framework and be creative with it? Why not do something extremely creative as opposed to only straight ahead? I like that. Various kinds of material can be used with that approach as opposed to what he used here with his honky tonk tele motives.

[Cunamara]

Pondering all this, seems to me that a remarkable thing about Julian is that he radiates joy when he plays, seemingly every time. There are a few players like that- Wes, Mike Stern, Kreisberg, Frisell... it's infectious.

[mr. beaumont]

Pondering all this, seems to me that a remarkable thing about Julian is that he radiates joy when he plays, seemingly every time. There are a few players like that- Wes, Mike Stern, Kreisberg, Frisell... it's infectious.

I don't think anybody has had such a blast playing since Roy Clark.

[SedanDelivery2022]

In fairness though, the StSanders "shreds" guy is imo really amazing at what he does. It takes talent to take the pis* out of the greats in a way that acknowledges each of their particular styles and vibes. So if Lage happened to sound like that (actually I briefly had that thought too) maybe it's not such a bad thing.

I like Julian Lage. I'm still warming up to him; I don't necessarily think he's one of the greats (yet?) but he's better than 99% what they play on commercial radio. He's making a living being authentic to himself and his gifts (it seems). I think he's still finding his unique voice as a guitarist though.

[ruger9]

Pondering all this, seems to me that a remarkable thing about Julian is that he radiates joy when he plays, seemingly every time. There are a few players like that- Wes, Mike Stern, Kreisberg, Frisell... it's infectious.

EVH was like that.

That visible joy is what brought me to Julian. I'll be honest, it took me awhile to "get" him. When Arclight first came out, I saw his name in tele circles, checked him out and just didn't get it. For whatever reason. But videos would keep popping up here and there, and I'd keep "dipping my toes in the water" so to speak... and by the time Love Hurts came out I was enamored. Watching someone play with that much joy... I felt like it was something I am missing. That would be a good topic for a new thread....

Stern is another example- I really can't stand his music, but I love the guy- he not only seems to have pure joy for playing, but also pure joy for life. IDK what "drug" he's on, but I want some...

[AKA]

…..Then one day seeing this from the Hollywood Palace - game show audience with patronizing host, damn ridiculous orange suit, pop song Wendy good God, and limited playing that could have been anyone with two years on the instrument.]

From the “Tiger in a Cage” tour.

AKA