Jimmy Bruno: Lesson One

[PMB]

Thanks ccroft. By the way, I practised exactly the same ascending/descending approach when learning the five positions.

I also decided to flip things around and practice all keys in one area of the neck. It occurred to me that this was best achieved by moving through a cycle of 4ths as this is the most common movement in functional Western harmony (ii-V-Is are the most obvious expression of the cycle).

The first step was to rearrange the CAGED forms to fit the cycle so that CAGED became EADGC. I then mapped these rearranged forms to the five most common keys in jazz: G-C-F-Bb-Eb. Before I knew it, I'd written an as yet unpublished book, appropriately titled Five by Five: A Progressive Approach to Jazz Guitar Soloing that builds upon these basic forms in a chronological/stylistic fashion.

Here's a sample containing the first of five chapters (naturally) covering major, dominant and minor lines followed by both major and minor ii-V-Is. Any feedback is welcome!

[Litterick]

It won't be, the opposite is the case.
Learn this way in all 5 positions and you will have immediate access to every possible note for the key on neck, know what it is and what to do with it.

You sound like a salesman. But your product does not seem particularly novel. Learn this way and you can do what all musicians do.

[princeplanet]

Thanks ccroft. By the way, I practised exactly the same ascending/descending approach when learning the five positions.

I also decided to flip things around and practice all keys in one area of the neck. It occurred to me that this was best achieved by moving through a cycle of 4ths as this is the most common movement in functional Western harmony (ii-V-Is are the most obvious expression of the cycle).

The first step was to rearrange the CAGED forms to fit the cycle so that CAGED became EADGC. I then mapped these rearranged forms to the five most common keys in jazz: G-C-F-Bb-Eb. Before I knew it, I'd written an as yet unpublished book, appropriately titled Five by Five: A Progressive Approach to Jazz Guitar Soloing that builds upon these basic forms in a chronological/stylistic fashion.

Here's a sample containing the first of five chapters (naturally) covering major, dominant and minor lines followed by both major and minor ii-V-Is. Any feedback is welcome!

Very generous of you to share. I always pay attention to your posts which are always relevant and concise as well as deep, so I expect your book will be likewise.

But c'mon man, these are dated 2005! What's taking you so long!!

[princeplanet]

... as for the CAGED discussion, I'm surprised it's even being discussed. It's such a simple thing to memorise, and simple to use in any key. They contain all your chord shapes and arps and provide you with a map for whatever you're doing. I would have thought everyone on this forum would have had this down years ago. Expanding CAGED to 7 or even 12 positions is fine, but probably not necessary. Having a more horizontal approach, if one wishes, can grow out of just linking the CAGED positions.

It's the map you need, and it's surely the simplest. How the heck can you go anywhere in Jazz guitar without a map?

[Laurence Finston]

One of the very first books that I bought when I started to teach myself to play the guitar was Leigh Powers, The Scale Book. That must have been around 1984. I practiced it a lot until I didn't need it anymore. Great book. No idea whether it's still in print.

This is a passage from it that I quote in full (despite the excessive typing) because I think it's important and it's always stuck in my mind:

How to Practice Scales

1. Have a positive attitude.

2. Get plenty of rest and eat a hearty breakfast.

3. Work out with weights and run two miles daily.

4. Agree with everyone you meet that the only way to learn scales is to practice fingerings eleven hours a day for 2.716 years --- all the while frowning, complaining, and looking for a short cut by which you can master the study during a television commercial.

5. Ignore the preceding steps because they are not your cup of cocoa and because you prefer an intellectual approach. Study the guitar for years with every local guru-guitarist you can find. Learn everybody's tricks and then go get a master's degree in harmony at music school. Become an authoritative speaker, perhaps a charming and witty after-dinner guest speaker at the homes of local friends of musicians. Finally, sit down and learn your scales. Should this intellectual approach become too dry and mechanical for you, use magic.

6. Look at your hands. Discover that you have five fingers, the guitar has six strings and there are seven notes in the major scale. Draw a picture of your guitar and paint different frets and strings different colors. Paint a number on each finger, and using your subjective concept of pretty hand shapes, develop and practice interesting visual patterns. Be careful not to listen while you play, but devise a cute name for your system (like The Artful Scales, Shlonic Scales, or Triadic Equivalents) and go into business for yourself. Then sit down and play your scales.

QUESTION: Why did we write the preceding paragraphs?
ANSWER: To alert you to the damaging mental attitudes you could adopt concerning scale study. To learn scales is not hard, it isn't boring, it isn't a major part of your life. Don't make it these things! Don't be impatient, don't assume that you won't appreciate it or that you won't understand it because it's new. Don't rush, and don't overdo scale study --- but do give it a fair, honest effort.

[Big Mac]

It's such a simple thing to memorise, and simple to use in any key. They contain all your chord shapes and arps and provide you with a map for whatever you're doing.

Yes - as long as you are able to spell chords and are able to hear.

[princeplanet]

Yes - as long as you are able to spell chords and are able to hear.

I relate all chord shapes and corresponding arps to each of the 5 CAGED positions. People would say that you can only have 4 inversions, so there will always be a hole in the system. I fixed this problem years ago by "cheating" a little. For example, if you are learning your drop 2's (a good place to start), then slip in a drop 3 where there is a hole so that you have a chord shape to correspond with each of the CAGED forms.

[JWMandy]

These, it’s the full scale not pentatonics. His might be marginally different.

Shared album - Allan A - Google Photos

I have Jimmy's "Six Essential Fingerings..." (copyright 2002) but this looks like a different book. Where's this from?

[KingKong]

You sound like a salesman. But your product does not seem particularly novel. Learn this way and you can do what all musicians do.

Well don't 'buy it' then. Do your own thing, this approach works for me and also lots of other people on this thread.

[KingKong]

The Grand Unified Diatonic Pattern.

You learn how the 5 lay and move. And then you start to see in-between options. I used to pick a key, play the lowest pattern ascending, shift up to the next one in the same key and play it descending, shift and ascend until you get to the end of the neck. Then go back down. Then shift two patterns in the same kind of way. Then another key. Then I started to see the 3nps patterns that lay between and connect Jimi's 5. The ones with the little stretches for every-other fret.

It's gratifying for me to read this discussion. Not sure why, but I ended up with his same shapes. It's what I figured out for myself about 54 years ago. I figured out do-re-me and got shape 1, and then I wanted to know where the rest of the notes were further up the neck.

Bruno's naming method is interesting. I'll have to think about that some more. I never gave them names. They're just parts of G.U.D.P. to me. And it is sorta like CAGED when you start seeing the chords that are contained in them.

All seconded, I entered the world of guitar improvisation through rock/ blues and for that stuff with the minor and major pentatonics Ive got that 5 position link up down since a long time ago.

Then I tried to lean jazz and got nowhere really until it clicked that the same positional approach would work!

Thing is that mastering it in Jazz, well there is a lot more to lean than for blues...
- all the scale variations
- all the arpegios for each degree in each position
- all the scale tone chords for each position

so I'm not gonna claim to have completely mastered this approach for Jazz, I need to sit down and actually do some practice!

[AllanAllen]

I have Jimmy's "Six Essential Fingerings..." (copyright 2002) but this looks like a different book. Where's this from?

Basix Scales and Modes, I found it in a garbage can(I'm not joking, maybe Litterick threw it away). The major scale fingerings just happen to match. Jimmy revised the fingerings to only have five somewhere along the line.

[JWMandy]

Alfred pub: Basix Scales and Modes" by Steve Hall?

[AllanAllen]

Yeah, that's the one. It's nothing special, you can find all the stuff free online. I just happened to have a picture of those relevant pages.

[MarkRhodes]

The five fingerings are certainly ONE way to play the guitar. While certain major players such as Joe Pass and Pat Martino gravitated towards those patterns, I believe it's worth investigating alternatives.

No argument there. Ron Eschete talks about this in the video he made about learning these fingerings.

I think you would agree that although one may well investigate alternative fingerings, one needs to start somewhere and it's probably best to learn one approach before investigating others.

[Litterick]

... as for the CAGED discussion, I'm surprised it's even being discussed. It's such a simple thing to memorise, and simple to use in any key. They contain all your chord shapes and arps and provide you with a map for whatever you're doing. I would have thought everyone on this forum would have had this down years ago. Expanding CAGED to 7 or even 12 positions is fine, but probably not necessary. Having a more horizontal approach, if one wishes, can grow out of just linking the CAGED positions.

It's the map you need, and it's surely the simplest. How the heck can you go anywhere in Jazz guitar without a map?

How did all those guitarists of the golden age manage without it?

[PMB]

No argument there. Ron Eschete talks about this in the video he made about learning these fingerings.

I think you would agree that although one may well investigate alternative fingerings, one needs to start somewhere and it's probably best to learn one approach before investigating others.

Yes, I agree entirely Mark and that's why I wrote a book based around those fingerings! In fact, Ron's excellent and sadly out-of-print The Jazz Guitar Soloist was a very helpful guide when first collating my thoughts around this topic. I'd already conceived of mapping the five common jazz keys to the five fingerings in 2nd position when I first encountered Ron's book (although for some reason, he doesn't outline them as a cycle of 4ths) and when I found out that various others including Carol Kaye and my late friend Rick Stone taught exactly the same combination, I knew I was on the right track.

[PMB]

My guess is that Ron plays the keys from C as a hang over from piano-based pedagogy. In my mind, the guitar is in G. The open strings make up a G major pentatonic and G major and minor scales are the lowest that can be played with stretch fingerings on the guitar without involving open strings (unless of course, your guitar has an extra low B!).

[MarkRhodes]

How did all those guitarists of the golden age manage without it?

A lot of them used it, it just wasn't called CAGED. Joe Pass was the first person I heard call it CAGED. (He called it that for teaching purposes; it wasn't called that when he learned it.)
Herb Ellis played out of chord shapes. He taught a "shape system." His major chord shapes were triads, so it was fewer shapes, but he had a couple shapes for minor and for dominants, so it's more shapes in total. But it's fairly easy.

Charlie Christian played out of shapes.

So did Barney Kessel.

That's not ALL they did but they all DID do that, and a lot of the time.

[PMB]

Very generous of you to share. I always pay attention to your posts which are always relevant and concise as well as deep, so I expect your book will be likewise.

But c'mon man, these are dated 2005! What's taking you so long!!

Thanks for the kind words, Prince. To be honest, soon after writing the first version of that book in the mid '90s, I became a house husband for some years, raising two kids who are now both in their 20s and fine musicians as it happens. That took a lot of my energy and time and once I got back to gigging and practising heavily, I'd mentally moved on.

I still think it's a worthwhile text but I see that Ron Eschete notes in the video Mark posted that he's extended his thinking to include 3NPS etc and refers to his own book as if it's a remote, ancient artefact.

By the way, I always enjoy your own posts. I know you're in Oz but do you live in Sydney? It'd be nice to meet up some time for a hang. I'm playing tonight if that works for you:

Log into Facebook | Facebook

[MarkRhodes]

My guess is that Ron plays the keys from C as a hang over from piano-based pedagogy. In my mind, the guitar is in G. The open strings make up a G major pentatonic and G major and minor scales are the lowest that can be played with stretch fingerings on the guitar without involving open strings (unless of course, your guitar has an extra low B!).

Jimmy starts in C too. So do I now. G is great key for the guitar. But I start from C and run through to G. It takes only a few minutes. Nice warm up, and at my age (64) some warm up is essential. ;o)

[PMB]

A lot of them used it, it just wasn't called CAGED. Joe Pass was the first person I heard call it CAGED. (He called it that for teaching purposes; it wasn't called that when he learned it.)
Herb Ellis played out of chord shapes. He taught a "shape system." His major chord shapes were triads, so it was fewer shapes, but he had a couple shapes for minor and for dominants, so it's more shapes in total. But it's fairly easy.

Charlie Christian played out of shapes.

So did Barney Kessel.

That's not ALL they did but they all DID do that, and a lot of the time.

As far as I'm aware, L.A-based session guitarist, Jack Marshall came up with the name 'CAGED' around 1950.

[PMB]

At this point, I feel it's worth making the distinction between CAGED as a visual representation and as a fingering system.

It's interesting to note that guitarists who adopt the fingerings as their default - Pat Martino, Joe Pass (particularly in his 1962-1970 single line soloing recordings), Jimmy Bruno, Barry Greene - tend to pick most of their notes whereas players who favour stretch fingerings (Leavitt, 3NPS etc.) on the whole incorporate more hammers & pull offs. The latter camp would include bop pioneers such as Chuck Wayne, Tal Farlow and Jimmy Raney and the majority of players currently out there from Metheny, Scofield and Rosenwinkel up to neo-boppers such as Pasquale Grasso.

[KingKong]

As far as I'm aware, L.A-based session guitarist, Jack Marshall came up with the name 'CAGED' around 1950.

I'm not getting all the negativity here. We have a system that clearly works and is recommended by such legends as pass and Metheny.

Me is detecting some jazz snobbery here.

'this so called CAGED system that is sold to intermediate rock guitarists all over you tube, pah! That's not good enough for jazz, I need to make it more complicated and pretentious.'

[PMB]

I'm not getting all the negativity here. We have a system that clearly works and is recommended by such legends as pass and Metheny.

Me is detecting some jazz snobbery here.

'this so called CAGED system that is sold to intermediate rock guitarists all over you tube, pah! That's not good enough for jazz, I need to make it more complicated and pretentious.'

I can't see any negativity or snobbery here. Certainly none intended in the post of mine you quoted.

[DawgBone]

I don't know what CAGED is but I know there are more notes worth including along with the pentatonic scale than just the ones he has added. Or at least ones I utilize pretty regularly. In the main "A" pentatonic starting from the root on the 6th string...

I like an Eb as a passing tone on the 5th string as well as a G# passing tone on the 4th string, and a C# on the 3rd string which works as a passing tone or a chord tone on the I.

I will sometimes use all the notes in between the 5th and 7th frets in 5th fret root scale pattern to create a smooth run all the way from D on the 5th string to B and C on the first, depending on what's happening. Gives it a smooth, flowing sound that work great hammered, pulled off, legato, etc. Adjust accordingly if you are working in strictly minor pentatonic stuff. Sometimes I feel like I'm just working towards an end point which will be drawing everything from a chromatic scale, I'm just not there yet mentally or musically. It just seems like even in a straight blues setting there are a lot of extra notes that are worthwhile if only as passing tones to smooth up some phrasing and allow for some additional speed.

Sorry if my post seems elementary. It is elementary as I am not very good with theory, but I have spent an inordinate amount of time with pentatonics/blues scales/major and minor both and those are some discoveries that have benefited my blues playing. It has helped with making more fluid pentatonic type runs especially. Hope that is useful to someone.