The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Jazzkritter just sent me a message about an autographed Mortoro 7 string for sale. I don't understand why people think signing guitars is a good thing, but I was fascinated by the people who did. One of them was someone about whom I knew next to nothing - Joe Cinderella. So I looked him up and discovered yet another great player (and arranger, composer, educator etc) of whom most of us are unaware. He played 7 and 8 string guitars and had a really cool and sophisticated approach to harmony. Here's his obit from JazzTimes and here's his Blue Note bio.

    I can't find his 2002 album (Concepts) - even the big A doesn't have it. But there are a few tracks from it on YT. Here are four from the album -





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  3. #2

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    Yes sir! Sure have heard of Joe Cinderella! He played in Gil Melle's Quartet in the fifties, absolutely love his playing. There's an unsung cat if ever there were one! From 1956 ..hip concept and tone. ... Love Gil Melle also, great composer and artist.


  4. #3

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    There was actually more than one Joe Cinderella teaching guitar in NJ back then. I studied with the "other one" when I was barely a teenager, and later found out, when I was a a teacher myself at a music store down the road.

  5. #4

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    There is an extended interview with him in Jim Carlton's book "Conversations With Great Jazz and Studio Guitarists.

  6. #5

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    I posted about him on the tuning in thirds thread. A friend of mine saw his quartet with sax. guitar, drums and bass, and he said it sounded like a full sax section. Here's the Koontz eight string guitar he played for sale:
    Sam Koontz Custom Made For Joe Cinderella 1980 Guitar For Sale

    It was the last guitar Sam Koontz made before he died.
    I knew an organist who was doing an organ trio with Joe on guitar in Jersey.
    He seemed obsessed with finding a way to make the guitar sound as full as a piano. He eventually gave up the guitar and played piano in Atlantic City a few years before his death.
    He played for Chris Connor with Vinnie Burke on Lush Life here:

  7. #6

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    Joe Cinderella did a few things with Gil Melle. You can find some on Amazon Music

  8. #7
    My Brother took lessons from, a Joe C. in NJ TEANECK BASED?
    Was he a different cat or the same?

    His other teacher was HARVEY sTRUM

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesguitars
    My Brother took lessons from, a Joe C. in NJ TEANECK BASED?
    Was he a different cat or the same?
    I don't know. Someone posted that there were 2 pro guitarists named Joe CInderella in NJ at the same time, but I've not seen any other reference to this. He was a well respected teacher who pioneered in the concept of a jazz guitar curriculum at the college level. But I only found out about him after seeing his signature on that autographed Mortoro 7 string and being curious about the name.

  10. #9

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    The "well known" (relatively speaking!) Joe Cinderella would have been the guy in north jersey, like Teaneck.

    I was in Westfield, more central Jersey, and my teacher had a day gig, did weddings, etc. But he did get me started on the Mickey Baker book, and standard sheets from fakebooks which I still have.

  11. #10
    Well the title says it, he's my great uncle as well as my dad's s Godfather.

    I'd be extremely interested in purchasing this guitar if it's still available.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratomaster
    Well the title says it, he's my great uncle as well as my dad's s Godfather.

    I'd be extremely interested in purchasing this guitar if it's still available.
    Which one, the 8 string Koontz or the 7-string Mortoro?
    Does anyone know if he used an unusual tuning on the 7 string guitar like he did on the ground-breaking 8-string Koontz guitar?

    Koontz built guitars for Pat Martino and Harry Leahey. Then he built the 8-string guitar for your great uncle and committed suicide shortly afterward.
    Do you have any memories of your great uncle you'd like to share? He recorded with other NJ musicians like Vinnie Burke and Gil Melle, both of whom Tal Farlow recorded with also. Did he hang out with Tal at all?

  13. #12
    Hello friends,

    I was fortunate to have an opportunity to study with Joe for about 10 years. He was such a kind human being for taking on such a knucklehead guitar player like myself.. I remember my first lesson he asked me to sit and play some things for him, and then he asked me a series of questions about theory. None of which I could answer at the time. At the end of our discussion he said in his strong north joisey accent “Jon, you played beautifully but your like an infant when it comes to speaking the language..” Haha! This was very true.. Nonetheless I’m still not great at theory but Joe taught me how to utilize all the notes on my fingerboard..

    As for the guitars, I’d have played both of the guitars that were mentioned. (They both felt great with low action) Joe told me the history behind them but I don’t really remember the complete story. His daughter Daria would be the person to try and locate. Frankie Cicali is a local jazz guitar great in NJ, he may know how to locate Daria. He is the one who connected me with Joe.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slinkyguitarnerd
    Hello friends,

    I was fortunate to have an opportunity to study with Joe for about 10 years. He was such a kind human being for taking on such a knucklehead guitar player like myself.. I remember my first lesson he asked me to sit and play some things for him, and then he asked me a series of questions about theory. None of which I could answer at the time. At the end of our discussion he said in his strong north joisey accent “Jon, you played beautifully but your like an infant when it comes to speaking the language..” Haha! This was very true.. Nonetheless I’m still not great at theory but Joe taught me how to utilize all the notes on my fingerboard..

    As for the guitars, I’d have played both of the guitars that were mentioned. (They both felt great with low action) Joe told me the history behind them but I don’t really remember the complete story. His daughter Daria would be the person to try and locate. Frankie Cicali is a local jazz guitar great in NJ, he may know how to locate Daria. He is the one who connected me with Joe.
    I'm still blown away by the quartet record he made where he made his eight string sound like an entire sax section. Did he ever demonstrate that for you? Could he do it with the seven string Mortoro, too?
    It's too bad that the Koontz is going for 25K. Who's going to pay that much for a guitar that would be so difficult to play because of the crazy tuning?

  15. #14

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    Yes, and that was his real name. The rest is history :-)

  16. #15
    I can't say he ever demonstrated his playing on that album, however he always talked about trying to emulate the harmonic content of a piano player. I think this is why he chose to tune his 8 string guitars in alternate tuning. ( I think he tuned in thirds but I could be mistaken) He was always writing songs before and after his wife Angela passed away. I remember him charting them out on manuscript paper and his handwriting was very small but very concise. He was such a mathematician when it came to music. Most of his concepts were so over my head that most of the time I couldn't follow him. He loved to dissect musical scores and often got excited when he talked about his approach to writing parts for multiple instruments in an orchestral setting. I moved to Denver, Colorado after Joe passed and I started studying with a jazz graduate from North Texas University named Dan Schwindt. He asked me who I studied with and I told him about Joe Cinderella. He looked at me kinda funny and said what was his name again, I replied: Joe Cinderella..He than walked out of the room and came back a few minutes later holding a red book in his hand. He then stated: "this is the book we used in college at North Texas".. He handed me a book of Arpeggios, written by Joe Cinderella. Joe was so humble he never even mentioned he wrote any books on music theory.. He did mention a couple times in passing that he got burned by a publishing company, I think it was Hal Leonard but I didn't really pay much attention at the time... Joe was a true gentleman, a sweet heart, and a musical mastermind.. Anyone that spent any time with him I could bet would say the same!

    Here is one of the last photos I have of Joe playing a Burtone Telecaster I loaned to him.

    Anybody heard of Joe Cinderella?-img_0031-jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    I'm still blown away by the quartet record he made where he made his eight string sound like an entire sax section. Did he ever demonstrate that for you? Could he do it with the seven string Mortoro, too?
    It's too bad that the Koontz is going for 25K. Who's going to pay that much for a guitar that would be so difficult to play because of the crazy tuning?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slinkyguitarnerd
    I can't say he ever demonstrated his playing on that album, however he always talked about trying to emulate the harmonic content of a piano player. I think this is why he chose to tune his 8 string guitars in alternate tuning. ( I think he tuned in thirds but I could be mistaken) He was always writing songs before and after his wife Angela passed away. I remember him charting them out on manuscript paper and his handwriting was very small but very concise. He was such a mathematician when it came to music. Most of his concepts were so over my head that most of the time I couldn't follow him. He loved to dissect musical scores and often got excited when he talked about his approach to writing parts for multiple instruments in an orchestral setting. I moved to Denver, Colorado after Joe passed and I started studying with a jazz graduate from North Texas University named Dan Schwindt. He asked me who I studied with and I told him about Joe Cinderella. He looked at me kinda funny and said what was his name again, I replied: Joe Cinderella..He than walked out of the room and came back a few minutes later holding a red book in his hand. He then stated: "this is the book we used in college at North Texas".. He handed me a book of Arpeggios, written by Joe Cinderella. Joe was so humble he never even mentioned he wrote any books on music theory.. He did mention a couple times in passing that he got burned by a publishing company, I think it was Hal Leonard but I didn't really pay much attention at the time... Joe was a true gentleman, a sweet heart, and a musical mastermind.. Anyone that spent any time with him I could bet would say the same!

    Here is one of the last photos I have of Joe playing a Burtone Telecaster I loaned to him.

    Anybody heard of Joe Cinderella?-img_0031-jpg
    He wound up switching to piano towards the end of his life and playing at Atlantic City. There's a you tube video of him paying piano on some old out-of tune piano. He finally gave up on the guitar!