The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Well, since I got your attention . . . I, really, mean it since the disparity between New Gen players and Old Gen sadly continues to grow. It doesn't require a rant when you have the pudding . . . here's Jimmy Smith, Kenny Burrell, Herman Riley(tenor), and Grady Tate performing "Organ Grinder's Swing" from the excellent album "Live in Vienne, France 1993. Really guys, with rare exception, where has this music gone? Enjoy!




    P.S. Herman Riley, a great and unknown tenor player to many, just tears it up!
    M

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Do you actually listen to any younger players much?


  4. #3

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    I prefer old players...Marinero bravo!

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Do you actually listen to any younger players much?

    Hi, C,
    Yes . . . every morning. I do a search by instrument(ie: Jazz Guitar, Jazz Saxophone, etc.) and I do like Emmett and some of his jam sessions. However, not the one you provided. . . too Lionel for me. Every time I hear him play I think of Horace Silver. I think he was certainly influenced by his music. I like this video.
    Marinero




  6. #5

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    How Long Do You Expect Me To Take This??????-age-just-number-jpg

    There were avant garde players in 1960 and there are old school players now. I try to enjoy and learn from them all.

    Please don't tell us you don't like Cory Wong's funk -





    Wild in the old school? Here's some fairly mild Lenny Breau -



    and here's some old school playing from new players -




  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, C,
    Yes . . . every morning. I do a search by instrument(ie: Jazz Guitar, Jazz Saxophone, etc.) and I do like Emmett and some of his jam sessions. However, not the one you provided. . . too Lionel for me. Every time I hear him play I think of Horace Silver. I think he was certainly influenced by his music. I like this video.
    Marinero



    oh I do like the stride tho

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Do you actually listen to any younger players much?

    Yeah, M, you take the virtual YouTube A train to Emmet Cohen’s place in Harlem where people from different generations meet to jam. Even over 90 years old Sheila Jordan took the stairs up there but I discover a lot of great young players there as well whose playing is deeply rooted in the tradition but that of course grew up in a modern environment. Sax monster Patrick Bartley who plays with Emmet often cites e.g. computer game music as a huge influence from his childhood:



    EDIT: I had not followed the updates of this thread so it turns out you already know it.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, C,
    Yes . . . every morning. I do a search by instrument(ie: Jazz Guitar, Jazz Saxophone, etc.) and I do like Emmett and some of his jam sessions. However, not the one you provided. . . too Lionel for me. Every time I hear him play I think of Horace Silver. I think he was certainly influenced by his music. I like this video.
    Marinero



    He often reminds me of Junior Mance.

  10. #9

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    Here's some young players having a heck of a lot of fun:


  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    How Long Do You Expect Me To Take This??????-age-just-number-jpg

    There were avant garde players in 1960 and there are old school players now. I try to enjoy and learn from them all.

    Please don't tell us you don't like Cory Wong's funk -





    Wild in the old school? Here's some fairly mild Lenny Breau -



    and here's some old school playing from new players -



    Hi, N,
    Love the poster at the top of the page! So: Corey Wong: Did I hear any guitar solos? No. IMO, his funky comping could have been heard in any number of bands in my old neighborhood by teenage guitarists playing Kay guitars and Harmony Amps. However, I loved the horn band! And . . .Lenny--no; Mimi--o.k.; Jocelyn--the real deal. However, I do like your playing but we're talking about younger players, right?? Ahemmmm . . .
    Marinero

    P.S. Guys like me and you are at the end of our proverbial roads in life. Honesty is the best policy. M

  12. #11

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    Cecil Alexander

    Unfortunately there are not many videos of him playing with others. IIRC he is teaching at Berklee now.


  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    . Guys like me are at the end of our proverbial roads in life. M
    Thus you won't have to take this for much longer.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    Thus you won't have to take this for much longer.

    My Dear friend James,
    You must be getting forgetful in YOUR old age . . . well, you know the saying:
    "Only the good die young."
    Marinero . . . a proud and healthy septuagenarian



  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    Cecil Alexander

    Unfortunately there are not many videos of him playing with others. IIRC he is teaching at Berklee now.

    Well, B,
    I made it to the three-minute mark. Not much interest. The white guy was the better player IMO and the black guy just wanted to play fast. . . well, they both wanted to play fast. Blues, for me, is one of the most abused musical genres and Jazz-inspired licks and supersonic playing have no place in the genre. But, that's just my opinion. Here's my idea of the Blues. I hope you enjoy!
    Marinero


  16. #15
    O.K, B,
    One more:




  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Well, B,
    I made it to the three-minute mark. Not much interest. The white guy was the better player IMO and the black guy just wanted to play fast. . . well, they both wanted to play fast. Blues, for me, is one of the most abused musical genres and Jazz-inspired licks and supersonic playing have no place in the genre. But, that's just my opinion. Here's my idea of the Blues. I hope you enjoy!
    Marinero

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    O.K, B,
    One more:

    I enjoyed both very much. This Lowell Fulson album was one of the first albums I ever bought in the late eighties as a cheap Italian print. I had grown up with classical only and got into pop music rather late at 13. I had soon a Hard & Heavy phase that ranged from Europe and Bon Jovi via Van Halen to Metallica and Slayer but as I got interested where that music came from I discovered Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix and via them the real African-American blues. Before I knew any official Hendrix album I bought a bootleg cassette at the local electronics store that had on one side material from Curtis Knight and the Squires, a blues and soul band that Hendrix played in for a while, and on the other side material from that Jam Session with a totally loaded and therefore so obscene Jim Morrison that Johnny Winter later distanced from that session and said he had never taken part in it. A little later the first private radio stations started in Munich (before that TV and radio had always been public only) and for some years I got up early at 9 every Sunday morning to listen to one hour of gospel and blues at a station called Jazzwelle Plus. That’s where I know Little Milton from. I always loved his tone.

    Another album I bought then (and still one of my favorites) is “Mud In Your Ears” by Muddy Waters with Luther Johnson on vocals and guitar:


  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    I prefer old players...
    Prone to that myself, along with a lot of others. Almost all my CD, records and much of my iTunes stuff is by musicians who are dead or geriatric. WHICH IS WHY JAZZ CONTINUES TO WITHER AWAY!!!!

    Most of the old players are dead. They don't need our support and don't have bills to pay and families to support. If we want jazz to live, we need to buy the records and go to the gigs of the new musicians. Maybe we need to expand our ears a little bit instead of being stuck in styles and repertoires that are 50-60-70 years old. Kind Of Blue, Giant Steps, Take Five, Mingus Ah Uhm, etc., are 63 years old! Time to move on, advice to myself as much as anyone else.

    Tal Farlow, Kenny Burrell, Joe Pass, Jim Hall already played that stuff.

  19. #18

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    Mimi is a great player, but I wouldn't call her new. She started playing guitar in 1966.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    How Long Do You Expect Me To Take This??????-age-just-number-jpg

    There were avant garde players in 1960 and there are old school players now. I try to enjoy and learn from them all.

    Please don't tell us you don't like Cory Wong's funk -





    Wild in the old school? Here's some fairly mild Lenny Breau -



    and here's some old school playing from new players -



    This video of Mimi shows a technique that she uses regularly that I don't recall seeing anybody else use.

    What sounds like a plucked or strummed-with-pick chord is actually played with her right hand middle finger, sweeping upwards.

    I can't hear any difference between the sound she gets with that technique vs. the sound she gets with any other.

  21. #20

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    Speaking of Mimi's uniqueness, I like that thing where she plays single note lines above the 12th fret on the lowest strings. Kind of a no go zone for most, but she made it sound a lot like a standup base in the upper registers. I just thought it was cool to see someone doing something that's usually avoided and making it work. It was on some other tube I saw a few years ago. I'd post it but I don't think I could find it. Can't remember the tune or how I stumbled on it.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    Speaking of Mimi's uniqueness, I like that thing where she plays single note lines above the 12th fret on the lowest strings. Kind of a no go zone for most, but she made it sound a lot like a standup base in the upper registers. I just thought it was cool to see someone doing something that's usually avoided and making it work. It was on some other tube I saw a few years ago. I'd post it but I don't think I could find it. Can't remember the tune or how I stumbled on it.
    Mimi is terrific at playing bass lines on guitar. She makes them crackle with energy and groove like mad. I believe she started as a drummer. I've never heard her play bass, but I think she'd sound great on it.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Well, since I got your attention . . . I, really, mean it since the disparity between New Gen players and Old Gen sadly continues to grow. It doesn't require a rant when you have the pudding . . . here's Jimmy Smith, Kenny Burrell, Herman Riley(tenor), and Grady Tate performing "Organ Grinder's Swing" from the excellent album "Live in Vienne, France 1993. Really guys, with rare exception, where has this music gone? Enjoy!

    M
    It evolved.

  24. #23

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    Always the million dollar question - do you change as the world changes? Or, do you continue what you are doing?

    In my mind, it is similar to taste in food. Some people are always seeking out a different tasting food. Others have a few different ones that they eat until the day they pass on. Then, I guess there is everyone in between.

    But then the question is raised, will one still support the "Arts" when it no longer appeals to them? And why does it not appeal? Is one being close-minded, or is it as simple as just liking what one likes and being content with that? Then where does it stop? Should one also get into Death metal, Punk, Celtic, or stick with music that is similar to what that person likes? I don't know, and I don't judge one way or the other.

  25. #24

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    I’m 60 years old. Based on family history, every year I have is a gift. I don’t care what young people are doing with jazz or anything else - that’s their concern, for good or ill. I have plenty of music to enjoy going all the way back to medieval polyphony. I have Haydn quartets I haven’t really listened to yet. I have Paul Desmond and Jim Hall records I could listen to everyday and never be bored with them. I have some nice guitars and working fingers and a mind that’s still functional and I can amuse myself all day working on some short piece by Tarrega or Monk. Future jazz - future music, future politics, future culture - doesn’t owe me anything.

    I don’t ask myself “how long do you expect me to take this” because I’m fortunate to be in a position where I don’t have to listen to what I don’t like. And there’s plenty I don’t like.

    I’d rather use my right hand to pluck arpeggios than to shake my fist at the clouds. Who gives a f*** what I think anyway and why should they? I’m just living, playing guitar, enjoying wine and friends and family and breathing - Why should I expect anything from 20-year-olds playing jazz guitar? Why should they care?

    Enjoy what you can while you can.
    Last edited by maxsmith; 09-19-2022 at 12:44 AM.

  26. #25

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    The differences that exist between older and newer jazz can be found in funk too. Vulfpeck and Cory Wong are great (I especially like their drummer Nate Smith), but a world apart from 60s-70s funk.