The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    She might be referring to that Haydn Quartet that blares out a 7th #9 chord that comes out of nowhere.Only people who lack any kind of virtue whatsoever would like a composer like that!
    I asked my teacher why the heck he did that, and she said he liked to play musical jokes on people, or wanted to upset the royalty.
    That's why I always insist people refer to him as 'Papa' Hendrix.
    .
    "the chord"

    just to bring something completely different, but directly connecting...

    A decade ago, or more I saw Pink Floyd documentary, where they talk about Dark Side... they are my heroes, and that album is really part of my musical identity since I got know it. Anyway Rick Wright, sitting in front of piano, talking about how the genial idea he got to use "the chord". In the original documentary, he repeats this fact more time, than in the youtube fragment.

    I found that pretty ridicoulus, multiple reasosns. The music is a process in time a flow, a communication, so we can not absolutise a chord as a static thing taken from one tune and place into an other tune. So he found an altered dominant. So what. Imagine say Jim Hall, comping Art Farmer, plays dozens of "chords" within a 3 minutes tune, then he starts to explain that how using "the chord" makes it incredible...

    There are literally 1000s of reasons why Dark Side of the Moon is a genial milestone in the music... please forget "the chord". Same could go to Haydn.

    PS: way earlier Bach used chords what are appear in jazz, but obviusly not this is why his compositions makes the greatest, and bring as close to the imaginable as it is possible. please forget "the chord".


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  3. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    "the chord"

    just to bring something completely different, but directly connecting...

    A decade ago, or more I saw Pink Floyd documentary, where they talk about Dark Side... they are my heroes, and that album is really part of my musical identity since I got know it. Anyway Rick Wright, sitting in front of piano, talking about how the genial idea he got to use "the chord". In the original documentary, he repeats this fact more time, than in the youtube fragment.

    I found that pretty ridicoulus, multiple reasosns. The music is a process in time a flow, a communication, so we can not absolutise a chord as a static thing taken from one tune and place into an other tune. So he found an altered dominant. So what. Imagine say Jim Hall, comping Art Farmer, plays dozens of "chords" within a 3 minutes tune, then he starts to explain that how using "the chord" makes it incredible...

    There are literally 1000s of reasons why Dark Side of the Moon is a genial milestone in the music... please forget "the chord". Same could go to Haydn.

    PS: way earlier Bach used chords what are appear in jazz, but obviusly not this is why his compositions makes the greatest, and bring as close to the imaginable as it is possible. please forget "the chord".

    ive been digging a lot into 18th century music including Bach recently and obviously Bach uses a lot of complex chords. However in almost all cases they are prepared a resolved using a very specific set of criteria. Bach often prolongs the dissonance and seems to enjoy the colour, but ultimately the dissonances are subject to resolution (although he does have some very fruity clashes!)

    Even though it’s functioning as a secondary dominant, I can’t help but hear the D/C chord in the WTC prelude no 1 as being a Lydian colour. Maybe Bach may have heard it that way as he wouldn’t have understood the term ‘secondary dominant’ but he would have known the Lydian. it seems to me this chord has a dual use - a beautiful colour but also a way into the dominant key.

    (The same move as used in Willian’s ET theme, Just Like this Train by Joni and many others including Weiss’s passacaglia. Very common and yet striking still. The chord appears in the Lunatic from Dsom but resolves differently)

    Also I notice jazz musicians often talk about Bach as if he invented a lot of stuff but in fact Bach’s style wasn’t born in a vacuum as uniquely brilliant as he was. Baroque composers were masters of preparing and resolving dissonance for dramatic and emotional effect. Bach may have been particularly adventurous at it, but his style was somewhat representative of the German late baroque.

    Anyway from a functional perspective a lot of Bachs harmony, is really not that complicated when you strip away the ornamenting dissonances and counterpoint. So the art is not so much in ‘cool chord progressions’ but rather foreground material. (But harmony as a field of study didn’t really exist in Bach’s time - it was all counterpoint - so this need not surprise us.)

    Take the Gigue from BWV997 which has an emotive and propulsive leaning/accented stepwise dissonance on almost every beat, but once this is taken into account the harmony is relatively straightforward. But the foreground harmony - the application of dissonance and so on, not to mention the counterpoint - is of course supreme.

    Anyway use in of dissonance in jazz - even straightahead or historical jazz styles - is much freeer. It’s quite nice to go from the strict stylistic demands of baroque and gallant harmony into something much more open where you can paint.

    And when jazzers look at Bach they are likely to see/hear those colours in his music and use them as they want to, which is cool.

    Anyway Rick Wright, underrated musician imo. Got Dark Side on vinyl finally recently and… well there’s a reason it’s so popular. The harmonies add just enough.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-24-2022 at 03:51 AM.

  4. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    ive been digging a lot into 18th century music including Bach recently and obviously Bach uses a lot of complex chords. However in almost all cases they are prepared a resolved using a very specific set of criteria. Bach often prolongs the dissonance and seems to enjoy the colour, but ultimately the dissonances are subject to resolution (although he does have some very fruity clashes!)

    Even though it’s functioning as a secondary dominant, I can’t help but hear the D/C chord in the WTC prelude no 1 as being a Lydian colour. Maybe Bach may have heard it that way as he wouldn’t have understood the term ‘secondary dominant’ but he would have known the Lydian. it seems to me this chord has a dual use - a beautiful colour but also a way into the dominant key.

    (The same move as used in Willian’s ET theme, Just Like this Train by Joni and many others including Weiss’s passacaglia. Very common and yet striking still.)

    Also I notice jazz musicians often talk about Bach as if he invented a lot of stuff but in fact Bach’s style wasn’t born in a vacuum as uniquely brilliant as he was. Baroque composers were masters of preparing and resolving dissonance for dramatic and emotional effect. Bach may have been particularly adventurous at it, but his style was somewhat representative of the German late baroque.

    Anyway from a functional perspective a lot of Bachs harmony, is really not that complicated when you strip away the ornamenting dissonances and counterpoint. So the art is not so much in ‘cool chord progressions’ but rather foreground material. (But harmony as a field of study didn’t really exist in Bach’s time - it was all counterpoint - so this need not surprise us.)

    Take the Gigue from BWV997 which has an emotive and propulsive leaning/accented stepwise dissonance on almost every beat, but once this is taken into account the harmony is relatively straightforward. But the foreground harmony - the application of dissonance and so on, not to mention the counterpoint - is of course supreme.

    Anyway use in of dissonance in jazz - even straightahead or historical jazz styles - is much freeer. It’s quite nice to go from the strict stylistic demands of baroque and gallant harmony into something much more open where you can paint.

    And when jazzers look at Bach they are likely to see/hear those colours in his music and use them as they want to, which is cool.

    Anyway Rick Wright, underrated musician imo. Got Dark Side on vinyl finally recently and… well there’s a reason it’s so popular. The harmonies add just enough.
    If that guy who was sitting next to me in school would not have lent me his father’s “Dark Side Of The Moon” and “Wish You Were Here” vinyl albums I would possibly not listen to jazz and blues now.

    Well, those two in combination with Queen’s “News Of The World” and “A Night At The Opera” which I borrowed from another guy in that class. (Naive as I was by then I wondered a little about Freddie’s clothing LOL.)


  5. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    If that guy who was sitting next to me in school would not have lent me his father’s “Dark Side Of The Moon” and “Wish You Were Here” vinyl albums I would possibly not listen to jazz and blues now.

    Well, those two in combination with Queen’s “News Of The World” and “A Night At The Opera” which I borrowed from another guy in that class. (Naive as I was by then I wondered a little about Freddie’s clothing LOL.)


    And, the reason, B?
    Marinero

  6. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    If that guy who was sitting next to me in school would not have lent me his father’s “Dark Side Of The Moon” and “Wish You Were Here” vinyl albums I would possibly not listen to jazz and blues now.

    Well, those two in combination with Queen’s “News Of The World” and “A Night At The Opera” which I borrowed from another guy in that class. (Naive as I was by then I wondered a little about Freddie’s clothing LOL.)

    This calls for the joke :-) Did you know bananas good for vision? No, why? Well, have you ever seen monkeys with glasses?

    I mean, not because of listening Pink Floyd and Queen then are you into in jazz now. Instead, you admired Pink Floyd and Queen for the same reason then, which is the reason now you admiring jazz.

    (btw the unforgettable Freddie Mercury's clothing was completly appropriate those years, especially if you take into account many others, for example Robert Plant's, see "The Song Remains the Same" movie.

  7. #131

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    A generation was left in a state of confusion by Queen's Jazz album, which contains not a bar of jazz.

  8. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    […] I mean, not because of listening Pink Floyd and Queen then are you into in jazz now. Instead, you admired Pink Floyd and Queen for the same reason then, which is the reason now you admiring jazz. […]
    How come you think you know better than me why I listen to something? (I do not feel offended at all, but believe me I have reflected a lot why one thing in life leads to another — so this is a serious question.)

    Those albums opened my ears to certain jazzy and bluesy sounds before I discovered the real thing (alongside Led Zep and Jimi; and it is still music I like to listen to from time to time).

    E.g. that IV7 hit me immediately the first time I heard it — of course this is not improvised but fully through composed music (I think there are examples of Gilmour working out his lead lines on Dark Side Of The Moon in the Live At Pompeii movie) and by no means as complex as bebop:


    Queen had even 30ies swing inspired songs on their eclectic records.


    By the way the name Pink Floyd is derived from Pink Anderson …


    … and Floyd Council …



    … which proves nothing at all yet LOL but Gilmour definitely plays basically blues guitar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    […] (btw the unforgettable Freddie Mercury's clothing was completly appropriate those years, especially if you take into account many others, for example Robert Plant's, see "The Song Remains the Same" movie.
    Thinking about it I think I was rather wondering about his outfit on the Live Magic album (which was partly recorded in your hometown).

    Later I found out Freddie was living for a while on my hometown. Munich’s gay quarter is (or rather was, the LQBTQetc. community is complaing about gentrification) AFAIK one of the most important worldwide such as San Francisco’s.

    And now not a naive teen anymore I wonder if I — supposed I were in the last stage of HIV — sing like Freddie in “It’s A Beautiful Day” — Mercury is one of the greatest singers for me, next to maybe Jeff Buckley and Sinatra.
    Last edited by Bop Head; 09-25-2022 at 03:42 AM.

  9. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    And, the reason, B?
    Marinero
    The reason for what, M?

  10. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    A generation was left in a state of confusion by Queen's Jazz album, which contains not a bar of jazz.
    My friend from school had the whole Queen discography up to that year (which means up to A Kind Of Magic and Life Magic) but I did not like the Jazz album so I did not record it on one side of a 45 min cassette.

  11. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    The reason for what, M?
    Hi, B,
    You answered it in a subsequent post.
    Marinero

  12. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    A generation was left in a state of confusion by Queen's Jazz album, which contains not a bar of jazz.
    If that album title confuses a man, then he deserves it.

  13. #137

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    Not men but boys, I am sorry to say. The promise of youth, cruelly deceived. Even today, some think Fat Bottomed Girls is bebop.

  14. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    How come you think you know better than me why I listen to something? (I do not feel offended at all, but believe me I have reflected a lot why one thing in life leads to another — so this is a serious question.)

    Those albums opened my ears to certain jazzy and bluesy sounds before I discovered the real thing (alongside Led Zep and Jimi; and it is still music I like to listen to from time to time).

    E.g. that IV7 hit me immediately the first time I heard it — of course this is not improvised but fully through composed music (I think there are examples of Gilmour working out his lead lines on Dark Side Of The Moon in the Live At Pompeii movie) and by no means as complex as bebop:


    Queen had even 30ies swing inspired songs on their eclectic records.


    By the way the name Pink Floyd is derived from Pink Anderson …


    … and Floyd Council …



    … which proves nothing at all yet LOL but Gilmour definitely plays basically blues guitar.




    Thinking about it I think I was rather wondering about his outfit on the Live Magic album (which was partly recorded in your hometown).

    Later I found out Freddie was living for a while on my hometown. Munich’s gay quarter is (or rather was, the LQBTQetc. community is complaing about gentrification) AFAIK one of the most important worldwide such as San Francisco’s.

    And now not a naive teen anymore I wonder if I — supposed I were in the last stage of HIV — sing like Freddie in “It’s A Beautiful Day” — Mercury is one of the greatest singers for me, next to maybe Jeff Buckley and Sinatra.
    you are right, you are the only authentic regarding that topic. Glad to here you were not offended. It is correct, because my thought was more like a compliment, than an offense.

    Anyway, my association was only because my case was similar, older boys in the gang introduced me with ELP and Pink Floyd, and when I was 13 schoolmate showed me the A Night at the Opera. However my conclusion is different than yours for myself: In case they were not, still during the decades I would managed to have the outer inspirations to get know jazz and classical music.

  15. #139

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    This the best I could do

  16. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Not men but boys, I am sorry to say. The promise of youth, cruelly deceived. Even today, some think Fat Bottomed Girls is bebop.
    Only if you be bopping ‘em (fat-bottomed girls).

  17. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    This the best I could do
    I had posted the wrong track, this is the wanted with Brian May’s great horn imitations.
    Last edited by Bop Head; 09-25-2022 at 12:33 PM.

  18. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    I had posted the one track, this is the wanted with Brian May’s great horn imitations.
    ah never mind. I pass to you the crown of JGOs most prolific commenter.

  19. #143

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    just checked in to see the last few posts, had to check I was in the right thread....

  20. #144

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    [QUOTE=Marinero;1220063]Hi, N,
    Love the poster at the top of the page! So: Corey Wong: Did I hear any guitar solos? No. IMO, his funky comping could have been heard in any number of bands in my old neighborhood by teenage guitarists playing Kay guitars and Harmony Amps. However, I loved the horn band!

    Should Corey Wong be reclassified as a percussionist? I certainly prefer his rhythm to that of the drummer in the video with the horn section.

  21. #145
    [QUOTE=Irishmuso;1222143]
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, N,
    Love the poster at the top of the page! So: Corey Wong: Did I hear any guitar solos? No. IMO, his funky comping could have been heard in any number of bands in my old neighborhood by teenage guitarists playing Kay guitars and Harmony Amps. However, I loved the horn band!

    Should Corey Wong be reclassified as a percussionist? I certainly prefer his rhythm to that of the drummer in the video with the horn section.
    Hi, I,
    Well . . . I don't know. However, he does not represent the playing style of Funk/R@B/Soul guitarists as I mentioned earlier. He's a Rock-based "rhythm" guitarist as we used to call them in Chicago "in the day." If I want to listen to Funk, I could spend the entire day listening to the "real deal" and not get bored. Interesting thought, Irish.
    Marinero

  22. #146

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    ...quoting yourself... nice :-)

  23. #147

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    Marinero is quoting Irishmuso quoting Marinero. The HTML coding has gone awry in both their posts, causing confusion.

  24. #148

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    Haha this thread has achieved maximum boomerdom

  25. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Marinero is quoting Irishmuso quoting Marinero. The HTML coding has gone awry in both their posts, causing confusion.
    I know... :-)

  26. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    I know... :-)
    me too!