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Well I’ve said elsewhere that almost all current jazz rhythms are based on hip-hop and are very different from the Buddy Rich/Max Roach approach.
But players still play, swingers still swing.
I listen to a lot more pop/rock/alt country music these days than straight-ahead jazz, but I am getting this feeling of a vibe like the 1970s. Look at Tedeschi-Trucks’ excellent new album—not really jazz, but beautiful writing and playing and arranging. Could have been done at Muscle Shoals in 1973.
I think music (and a lot of the arts) go in cycles, maybe 50 year cycles, and I think we’re possibly going back to an older time when music made sense and there was a feeling it *might* change the world, or at least let people forget their troubles for awhile and get their feet moving.
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09-19-2022 07:46 AM
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"I don’t care what young people are doing with jazz or anything else - that’s their concern, for good or ill. I have plenty of music to enjoy going all the way back to medieval polyphony. I have Haydn quartets I haven’t really listened to yet. I have Paul Desmond and Jim Hall records I could listen to everyday and never be bored with them." Maxsmith
Hi, M,
It is how I feel, as well, since life is short and time is unknown. I am an avid reader of philosophy, history, and quality literature. My music is both Jazz and Classical and I could live three lifetimes and never scratch the surface of the beauty that the world offers to some fortunate souls in these genres. When I go to bed at night, I always wish the day was longer and my energy greater. So, we MUST pick and choose how we wish to spend our days or our lives will be lost in frivolity and wasted time. However, every morning I spend a half-hour looking for young players who have a voice but, for me, the pickings are slim since the culture has changed and, for me, for the worse . . . but that's another discussion altogether. Good post.
Marinero
P.S. The Haydn Quartets are some of the most beautiful music ever written in the world. All serious musicians should spend some time listening to them since they will continue to unfold their secrets of this great master over the course of years.
M
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I often listen to the Brandenburgs, the Water Music suite, Tchaikowsky's 4th, and other favorites I've discovered over the years. But finding new stuff is also cool. My wife has been watching the Queen's funeral events, and one of the pieces the choir sang during the service had some of the coolest changes I've ever heard. That tune would make a great jazz piece and I want to find out what it was!
Originally Posted by Marinero
Ain't nothin' wrong with a little frivolity, as long as you don't get lost in it!
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I like Haydn a lot. My wife, who used to regularly play in string quartets seems less impressed.
Every so often you’ll meet someone who says they prefer Haydn to Mozart to sound clever. They are invariably lying.
The best piece of music in the classical canon is obviously the Schubert quintet though.Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-19-2022 at 12:51 PM.
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Hi, C, Originally Posted by Christian Miller
1.) I prefer Haydn to Mozart. It's the truth.
2.) I also love Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Mendelsson, Chopin, Albeniz, Tarrega, Sor, Aguado, Guiliani, Cano, Carcassi, Wagner, Beethoven . . . whew . . . I'm getting tired but you get the idea . . . but then there's Llobet, Broca, Paganini, Mertz . . . well. . . I'm deliberately lost in the 19th/early 20th Century.
Marinero-Time Traveler
P.S. What do you think about Mogami Gold Instrument cables? M
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Something got lost in in the colours of jazz harmonies — the colourful mixture of late 19th and early 20th century classical harmony with blue notes and African rhythms IMHO has turned into a boring impressionist wash which is why I stopped listening to the jazz broadcasts of Bayerischer Rundfunk or Deutschlandfunk. Most of the things that are released today do not really talk to me. That is why I rather listen to some old stuff. That is probably also the reason for the popularity of Barry Harris’ teachings in recent years — I am not the only one who feels like that.
This was the first jazz record I bought and it still hits me like 30 years ago — groovin’ like hell.
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I guess I’m a liar, then, invariably. Even to myself, I guess. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Haydn is my favorite composer, from all times, all cultures, all idioms and genres. Oops, I guess I did it again.
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1) all those who say they prefer Haydn are liars. Originally Posted by maxsmith
2) I prefer Haydn
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The missus says those that prefer Haydn ‘lack virtue.’
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I think this is the song you are referring to. Beautifully executed as well. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
The song, Who Shall Separate Us?, set words from Romans 8 to new music written by Scottish composer James MacMillan.
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I have no criticism whatsoever of Mozart; I love his music, especially the operas. Without making a list, I am guessing he would be in my Top 20. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I don't expect everyone to share my musical preferences; I certainly wouldn't question their virtue if they didn't.
But then again, I'm not a woman.
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Cory Wong - worlds most successful live backing track player.
Not that I don't like his music, he's incredibly good at what he does. But it sounds like a funky backing track to me all the time. May be except that Paisley Park session thing where he had some really great horns doing the actual music. (That he wrote!). Ok, but his part as player again was "backing track" wasn't it?
That could be considered mean from my side, I know, because doing a great comping job is actually music - yeah - but melody? Song?
Well never mind Cory I'm not against you.... (He'll survive!
)
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LOL, Christian, you are one of my favorite curmudgeons! Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Norman Liebrecht described it as 'one for the ages.' The setting of Psalm 42 by the Master of the King's Music, Judith Weir, was also lovely. Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
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Ah, so the English Curmudgeon meets the American Misanthrope.
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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The following two things adds up, and leads way false result:
- Most of us has tendency to have nostalgy and overrate some event, music, movie, food, place, etc what belongs to our youngest self.
- Many of us have tendency to bet on sure things when formulating opinion instead of risking discover and admire new. Moving with the "expert" opinion is always safe, but prevents to see a wider spectrum.
This is a serious threat when formulating opinion, and applies to this very forum too, idolizing (or at least overrating) "heros" practically forbidden to say the king is naked. Of couse I am not talking about Kenny Burrell.
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Hi, D, Originally Posted by DonEsteban
Cory Wong - worlds most successful live backing track player.
Not that I don't like his music, he's incredibly good at what he does. But it sounds like a funky backing track to me all the time. May be except that Paisley Park session thing where he had some really great horns doing the actual music. (That he wrote!). Ok, but his part as player again was "backing track" wasn't it?
That could be considered mean from my side, I know, because doing a great comping job is actually music - yeah - but melody? Song?
Well never mind Cory I'm not against you.... (He'll survive! )
I've listened to Cory and I like some of his horn bands but let's not lead people to believe that he's a great player. I grew up in Chicago with R@R, Soul, R@B, Funk, and Jazz in the 50's/60's/70's and when I said most players in my neighborhood could play rhythm guitar as well as Cory . . . that wasn't a slam to him but rather that we had some talented pre-teens/teens that were playing that stuff. I'm happy for any player today that makes it commercially but this is a Jazz forum with a high bar and what he plays doesn't meet that standard. And, if you listen to the Funk genre you know there are hundreds of players better than Cory out there. So, as long as we're talking about Funk . . . here's the master . . . Cornell Dupree. RIP, brother!
Forever Marinero
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One last remark for D,
Funk, Soul, and R@B, almost always utilizes the offbeat or as Brother James calls it the "backbeat" for comping. Cory's always playing on the beat. When white Rockers from the 60's/70's heard this music they made it their own playing on the beat utilizing the Rock influence with a funky feel. Cory is Rock-influenced not Funk/R@B. Here's a great example from JB utilizing the "backbeat." Listen to the guitar and bass in the background. Enjoy
Marinero
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I don’t recall ever seeing what I consider to one of the funkiest bands around mentioned on JGO. Maybe this belongs in the Funk thread, but with Cornell Dupree now in the mix in this one, I gotta remind you of AWB. Onnie McIntyre and Alan Gorrie are pretty fine! We saw them live every year when they toured with ToP, and I think they’re both great funk players. AWB has a limited repertoire, so the joy of seeing them live is more in watching and hearing them play than in the tunes themselves.
Pick Up the Pieces never loses its appeal for me -
And there’s at least a little more in their bag that I never heard before. I just found this video of a funky blues that’s new to me -
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Sorry, guys,
I can't help myself. Here's JB playing "More Peas." Listen to the guitar in the background.
Marinero
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to be fair tho, there aint nothin wrong with being freddie green. Originally Posted by DonEsteban
Cory Wong - worlds most successful live backing track player.
Not that I don't like his music, he's incredibly good at what he does. But it sounds like a funky backing track to me all the time. May be except that Paisley Park session thing where he had some really great horns doing the actual music. (That he wrote!). Ok, but his part as player again was "backing track" wasn't it?
That could be considered mean from my side, I know, because doing a great comping job is actually music - yeah - but melody? Song?
Well never mind Cory I'm not against you.... (He'll survive! )
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I love this stuff and your enthusiasm for it! But I’m a little confused by your readings of some of the elements under the hood. The guitar line in this example is based on hitting the “one-and”. The 16th note “e-and” accents add the feel, but in almost every JB tune, there’s a clear and necessary accent on the one. Originally Posted by Marinero
The bass line often hits the b7 on the one and the root on the &. That’s what I’ve always called “note rhythm” rather than beat rhythm - the feel is off the beat, but the beat is still the anchor. The first horn riff on More Peas hits on the one too. The feel doesn’t ignore the one - it needs both the ones and the 8th and 16th note offsets in between them. Sometimes there’s also a triplet feel, often with one of the three beats in it vacant. But I hear the ones as critical to the funk too.
Sometimes the one is so near and yet so far, like in parts of this one by one of my all time favorites- Jon Cleary:
and here’s a wild live version that’s a bit more on-the-one but still funky as the south side:
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Hi, N, Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Good example, N. In my old horn band, we played this song every night for years. And, if you notice, the guitarist is not steady vamping in the background a la Rock-influenced music. However, they didn't have another hit like this one ever again. As an aside, there were more Jazzers playing in Funk bands in Chicago than one would believe in the 60's/70's since we had steady 5-6 night gigs. Even then, Jazz gigs were dominated by national recording artists. So, here's another good example of good comping and I promise I'm done with the Funk! Well, maybe . . .
Marinero
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That’s why I love seeing AWB live - they can really play, and they throw at least a few new things into each show. One time, they featured Alan Orrie’s funk guitar playing and he just soared for quite a while on multiple tunes. Originally Posted by Marinero
Done with the Funk??? Never! The last beats of our hearts will be back beats as we take it to the bridge
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"I love this stuff and your enthusiasm for it! But I’m a little confused by your readings of some of the elements under the hood. The guitar line in this example is based on hitting the “one-and”. The 16th note “e-and” accents add the feel, but in almost every JB tune, there’s a clear and necessary accent on the one." Nevershouldhavesoldit
Great comment, N, but if you listen again very closely(The Big Payback), the beat begins 1/32 before the first beat(played as a tie note into the first beat in the first measure) and continues from 0 to .35. Then, from .42 onwards(basically the whole song), there's a clear 1/16 before the first beat. That's the whole magic of the Funk sound and that's how I was taught. It's a feel and everything is slightly offbeat. That's the way we always played it. And, it's difficult for some to hear and some guys just can't play it properly as they're always missing the upbeat. We went through a lot of drummers who couldn't get that feel. That's the key. I hope that's clear. Here's one more example. Listen to the bass and guitar in the background playing that same concept where in lieu of being tie notes, they're played separately. Also, the emphasis on the 4th beat, at times, before one. Good Funk keeps mixing it up. Try playing that from a lead sheet!
Marinero
P.S. All good Funk emphasizes the 1st beat(especially JB) but with the above important musical nuances. MLast edited by Marinero; 09-20-2022 at 11:38 AM. Reason: addition
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