Historical question about Jim Hall

[ModesSchmodes]

I was wondering today, a topic which might interest a lot of people, as it holds I believe a lot of historical significance:

When did Jim Hall grow his signature moustache?
And more importantly, did it hold any special musical powers? Can we divide his oeuvre into Pre- and Post-Moustache?

I haven't done much research but I would place it in the early 70s. On his albums with Paul Desmond he is clearly lip-bald as the photos in the booklets suggest, Big Blues in 78 has the moustache.

[paulkogut]

1973

Album cover, 1975

I didn't get to know Jim until 1988 or so, so I can't offer any in person insights to his pre-mustache days...


PK

[whiskey02]

Jimmy D'Aquisto included one along with a truss rod wrench in every case.

[ModesSchmodes]

How could I miss Live in my research, the definitive moustache cover?

Well so it seems between 73 and 75 is the current known span.

[paulkogut]

Sure, the pre and post moustache years are significant, but I found a lot of the tone came from the vest....

Guitar Player Magazine May 1983 Jim Hall, The Scorpions, Luiz Bonfa, Mesa Boogie | eBay

[maxsmith]

I love Jim Hall, but jazz died when the first guy showed up at a gig without a coat and tie. The sideburns and mustaches and dashikis and blue jeans only added aesthetic insult to injury.

Come to think of it, Civilization died when the first guy showed up anywhere without a coat and tie, it’s all been a slow, ugly, inexorable descent ever since.

[sgcim]

I love Jim Hall, but jazz died when the first guy showed up at a gig without a coat and tie. The sideburns and mustaches and dashikis and blue jeans only added aesthetic insult to injury.

Come to think of it, Civilization died when the first guy showed up anywhere without a coat and tie, it’s all been a slow, ugly, inexorable descent ever since.

Quite true, and that Mustache was the beginning of the downfall of JH, as I've said countless times in my bewildering career as an internetter.
He started getting that arrogance that ultimately did him in.
Back when he played with Giuffre, and Chico Hamilton, he had the look of a friendly schoolteacher, eager to do what you asked of him.
But then that pure arrogance reflected in that mustache, made you realize that he had changed, and it was no more Mr. nice guy anymore.
When I saw him all those times in the City during the Alone/Together era, I was perfectly willing to center on his playing, and forget all other aspects of JH.
But when I went into the Village East to see him and Ron celebrate the 20th anniversary of A/T, and found him pretty much playing all the solos from the LP, and RC improvising, but playing what sounded like pentatonic country hoe downs on the bass, I knew something was up.
Had to be the mustache...

[ModesSchmodes]

Quite true, and that Mustache was the beginning of the downfall of JH, as I've said countless times in my bewildering career as an internetter.
He started getting that arrogance that ultimately did him in.
Back when he played with Giuffre, and Chico Hamilton, he had the look of a friendly schoolteacher, eager to do what you asked of him.
But then that pure arrogance reflected in that mustache, made you realize that he had changed, and it was no more Mr. nice guy anymore.
When I saw him all those times in the City during the Alone/Together era, I was perfectly willing to center on his playing, and forget all other aspects of JH.
But when I went into the Village East to see him and Ron celebrate the 20th anniversary of A/T, and found him pretty much playing all the solos from the LP, and RC improvising, but playing what sounded like pentatonic country hoe downs on the bass, I knew something was up.
Had to be the mustache...

I don't know if I'd call it "arrogance" (or how much of your comment was in jest for that matter), but I have to agree that I tend to prefer the pre-moustache years, if we are to draw that line now. I think you're on to something when you say that his playing became somehow more... self serving? Instead of song serving or group serving? I don't know, but I think it's quite telling that when you see people rave about his comping, it's the pre-moustache years they're referring to.

[grahambop]

Here’s some nice moustache playing (I was at the concert, at the Bath Festival):

[dot75]

Sure, the pre and post moustache years are significant, but I found a lot of the tone came from the vest....

Guitar Player Magazine May 1983 Jim Hall, The Scorpions, Luiz Bonfa, Mesa Boogie | eBay

Can confirm, sat 10 feet from him at a solo gig where he wore this exact waistcoat.

edit:speling

[jmgalich]

Well, it looks like it's time for me to resurrect my Kenny Burrell pre- and post-turtleneck theory: Pre-turtleneck, Kenny had more "bite"/drive in his soloing. Post-turtleneck, his playing became very laid back.

Hmm. Now what about about Barney Kessel pre- and post-beard? I need to give that some thought...

John Galich

[wintermoon]

Well, it looks like it's time for me to resurrect my Kenny Burrell pre- and post-turtleneck theory: Pre-turtleneck, Kenny had more "bite"/drive in his soloing. Post-turtleneck, his playing became very laid back.

Hmm. Now what about about Barney Kessel pre- and post-beard? I need to give that some thought...

John Galich

or pre and post ascot and toupee if you like

[Doug B]

Barney with a beard and ascot always looked like a contemporary of Rembrandt to me!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Now Pat Metheny's hair...

[grahambop]

Moustaches are not always harmful to one’s development. Joe and Pat both realised fairly early in their careers that something essential was missing.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Pat Martino did get carried away...

[maxsmith]

From what I recall, Jim’s widow Jane is a psychotherapist or something similar. She probably has some insights into the symbolism or significance of Mustache Jim.

Aside: being married to a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist/counselor? A personal nightmare, even if they didn’t call out all my deficiencies, complexes, defenses, etc, I would know THEY KNOW!!!

[yebdox]

When I met him, he had had the stache already for 20 years. Trying to be clever as I asked him to sign my copy of his book, I asked him to sign it as Sean Connery, since my wife wouldn’t know who Jim Hall was. He graciously complied and commented that Andre Previn told him the same thing, about his similar appearance to the older 007.

[Litterick]

Well, it looks like it's time for me to resurrect my Kenny Burrell pre- and post-turtleneck theory: Pre-turtleneck, Kenny had more "bite"/drive in his soloing. Post-turtleneck, his playing became very laid back.

Hmm. Now what about about Barney Kessel pre- and post-beard? I need to give that some thought...

John Galich

We need to talk about Bill Evans.

[Jimmy Smith]

I think the more appropriate question is: did Jim Hall ever not look old. Lol, me and my college buddies would joke about that. I saw him in the mid 00s with Dave Holland and he looked old and he looked old in the 60s. What gives.

[maxsmith]

I think the more appropriate question is: did Jim Hall ever not look old. Lol, me and my college buddies would joke about that. I saw him in the mid 00s with Dave Holland and he looked old and he looked old in the 60s. What gives.

I wouldn’t say he looks young here, but he doesn’t look old.

[mr. beaumont]

I was wondering today, a topic which might interest a lot of people, as it holds I believe a lot of historical significance:

When did Jim Hall grow his signature moustache?
And more importantly, did it hold any special musical powers? Can we divide his oeuvre into Pre- and Post-Moustache?

I haven't done much research but I would place it in the early 70s. On his albums with Paul Desmond he is clearly lip-bald as the photos in the booklets suggest, Big Blues in 78 has the moustache.

I don't think the mustache held any secret powers, as his playing was amazing pre-stache as well, but I'm still convinced the brown suede vest held secrets, secrets we may never fully understand.

[lawson-stone]

This is one of the best threads I've ever read on this forum. Outstanding. Penetrating analysis, civility, pictures... who could ask for better?

[maxsmith]

He looks like a villain in a Charles Bronson movie.

Pat Martino did get carried away...

[Flat]

I wouldn’t say he looks young here, but he doesn’t look old.

I am convinced in my dotage that minds like his must spring, like Athena, full-grown from the head of Zeus.

What many people don't realize is that in this photo Jim is only four years old.