Was Wes Montgomery from this planet?

[Marinero]

Working musicians(5-7 days a week) have the same mood swings, family problems, financial concerns, drugs, alcohol, ups, downs, etc. as all people. They bring these with them every time they step on the stage which is why, for those of us who have played live for a living, every night is different. And, if you're a "jobber," you might be doing a gig at 1:30 pm for an afternoon matinee in a theater and then, filling in for another musician who's home with the flu at 12 midnight. The idea of "perfect solos" is an admirable goal for every player but the reality is that they don't always happen--even among the best of players. And, if your goal is to play perfectly above all else . . . what a boring player you would be. There's a real world of music performance shared by real musicians and there's the imagined world of the delusional dilettante who feeds a false narrative from the imaginings of his bedroom stage. . . . "Never the twain shall meet . . . " *
Marinero



*Rudyard Kipling, "The Ballad of East and West."

[sgcim]

Can't recall the exact tune, but there's an ending on the Bill Evans LP ""Loose Bloose" where Jim Hall accidentally plays an open or a behind the bridge string that goes "DOINK!" right at the end of a ballad. Mistakes happen to the best players too, thankfully. I recall sitting 4 ft. from the great Dobro player Jerry Douglas as he played amazingly, He made an obvious clam, smiled to himself and kept pushing forward as if nothing happened. It's all about recovery.

I
When I talk about a 'perfect solo', I'm not really referring to a technically perfect solo. I'm referring to a compositionally perfect solo, where there are literally no superfluous notes; every phrase relates to what came before, there is no dull 'noodling', it contains the element of surprise, yet it sounds like it was almost written out. No meaningless repetition, no grandstanding.No blanking out, total concentration, no obvious triteness.

The guy I quoted who said there was no such thing as a perfect solo did NOT explain what he meant by that statement, I'm just saying what it means to me. It's so hard to accomplish that the other quote I mentioned back in that thread was that "Jazz is an imperfect art" might have been referring to this also. Again, the guy didn't say what he meant by it; he just kept repeating it like the first guy.did.

This is not to say that every solo Wes played could be classified as 'perfect', or that lesser players can't play a perfect solo.
It was addressed by Stan Getz in an interview where he spoke of 'getting into the alpha state; where it seems like you're not even playing; it fells like the instrument is playing itself.'
Like all art, it can get very subjective, and you might not agree with what I'm saying, or you might find Wes old fashioned, not technical enough, too technical, too predictable, etc...but this is how I relate to the OP's comment questioning Wes' 'birthplace' as it were, he did seem to have a higher average of recording what seemed like perfect solos than anyone else.

[Marinero]

"This is not to say that every solo Wes played could be classified as 'perfect', or that lesser players can't play a perfect solo.
It was addressed by Stan Getz in an interview where he spoke of 'getting into the alpha state; where it seems like you're not even playing; it fells like the instrument is playing itself.'" sgcim

So, let me address, first, the past and present "working musicians" on this Forum. Getz's remark is actually what happens on some occasions . . . but it's not every night and maybe not every week for the reasons I mentioned in my last post (#26). But, it does happen and when it does it's magic. As a former college baseball player, it's like a game you play when you pitch a shutout or go 4 for 4 at the plate. Everything clicks. Why did it happen? It can't be explained. Most musicians--even the great ones rely on formulaic solos that they play every night as a baseline for their improvisations. OK . . so they alter a few notes, chords and play a bit with timing but essentially they know where they're going. It's not some mystical, transcendental event but it's still creative and pleases the audience. However, there are times that are mystical and transcendental and there's not an artist worth his salt that can tell you why it happened that night. And, this includes lines you play that seemed to have come out of nowhere and when you're done for the night, you sit in puzzlement and wonder what happened. So, that's Getz's "alpha state."
Now, for everyone else who does not fall into the above category: it can still happen to you however, to a much lesser extent. In my early years of music, I never wrote these ideas down and it was a mistake. Today, I do ,but only, to try to understand "what the hell happened?" And, they can be relevant teaching tools(for yourself) and many times can be traced back to other musical events--many times from years past
Finally, the "perfect solo" is not something you look for every time you play . . . it finds you when you're ready. And, if you're not taking chances with ideas and making some mistakes you'll never be a creative player but rather a predictable, boring "Music Machine."
Marinero

[jads57]

The thing is Wes Montgomery was so easy to listen to as well as incredibly sophisticated as a musician. That is a really rare ability in any musician. Probably the epitome of what I consider the Best Jazz guitarist to ever lived.

[Marinero]

I discovered Jazz guitar in 1967 when I bought an album called "A Day in the Life" by a guitarist called Wes Montgomery. Here's "All Music's" Scott Janow describing Wes' performance:

"In most cases the guitarist did little more than play the melody, using his distinctive octaves, and it was enough to make him saleable. Of his three A&M recordings, A Day in the Life (the first one) was by far the best and, although the jazz content is almost nil, the results are pleasing as background music.^[1]'

Musicians create; critics are clueless.
Marinero

[lawson-stone]

"This is not to say that every solo Wes played could be classified as 'perfect', or that lesser players can't play a perfect solo.
It was addressed by Stan Getz in an interview where he spoke of 'getting into the alpha state; where it seems like you're not even playing; it fells like the instrument is playing itself.'" sgcim

So, let me address, first, the past and present "working musicians" on this Forum. Getz's remark is actually what happens on some occasions . . . but it's not every night and maybe not every week for the reasons I mentioned in my last post (#26). But, it does happen and when it does it's magic. As a former college baseball player, it's like a game you play when you pitch a shutout or go 4 for 4 at the plate. Everything clicks. Why did it happen? It can't be explained. Most musicians--even the great ones rely on formulaic solos that they play every night as a baseline for their improvisations. OK . . so they alter a few notes, chords and play a bit with timing but essentially they know where they're going. It's not some mystical, transcendental event but it's still creative and pleases the audience. However, there are times that are mystical and transcendental and there's not an artist worth his salt that can tell you why it happened that night. And, this includes lines you play that seemed to have come out of nowhere and when you're done for the night, you sit in puzzlement and wonder what happened. So, that's Getz's "alpha state."
Now, for everyone else who does not fall into the above category: it can still happen to you however, to a much lesser extent. In my early years of music, I never wrote these ideas down and it was a mistake. Today, I do ,but only, to try to understand "what the hell happened?" And, they can be relevant teaching tools(for yourself) and many times can be traced back to other musical events--many times from years past
Finally, the "perfect solo" is not something you look for every time you play . . . it finds you when you're ready. And, if you're not taking chances with ideas and making some mistakes you'll never be a creative player but rather a predictable, boring "Music Machine."
Marinero

I like this description a lot. It fits what I've seen in players I've enjoyed seeing live, and that rare moment when I've fired off a line or two that actually seemed like jazz.

[lawson-stone]

I discovered Jazz guitar in 1967 when I bought an album called "A Day in the Life" by a guitarist called Wes Montgomery. Here's "All Music's" Scott Janow describing Wes' performance:

"In most cases the guitarist did little more than play the melody, using his distinctive octaves, and it was enough to make him saleable. Of his three A&M recordings, A Day in the Life (the first one) was by far the best and, although the jazz content is almost nil, the results are pleasing as background music.^[1]'

Musicians create; critics are clueless.
Marinero

One of my favorite literary critics once said "When the critic looks behind him, he sees the shadow of a eunuch... who would be a critic when you can be an author?"

[jameslovestal]

I was driving home and the jazz station played a song; it sounded like Wes but frankly I found the song really horrible. Just a bad production and lacking any interest for me. I waited in my car to hear the DJ say this was Wes's Bumpin' with arrangements by Don Sebesky.

Not every record Wes put out was solid. (at least for my taste, but the you-tube comments for this song are "my favorite Wes", which just goes to show that people can view music differently,,,, sometimes much differently).

[princeplanet]

IMO the thing that continues to separate Wes from the rest (including GB and Pat Martino) is his impeccable and unmatched "taste", and he almost had all the technique he needed to express it - which is still more technique than most will ever acquire. But what a musical mind! Who cares about mistakes, this is Jazz, as was mentioned, if you don't play the odd flub, you're not pushing the envelope and that edge which is where the exciting players hang. (Sonny Rollins and Keith Jarrett are just a couple of others I rate highly in this regard.)

Julian Bream once said that John Williams never played a mistake, as though that was admirable and I suppose that for classical musicians that is one of the aims, but Jazz is another universe, right? Gimme true improvisation, imagination, adventure, risk! ... in fact, given the risks Wes seems to have taken with most of his solos (and comping), I'm amazed he didn't play way more clams!

If Jazz is another universe, then Wes, compared to everyone else, was indeed on another planet.

[Doctor Jeff]

I was driving home and the jazz station played a song; it sounded like Wes but frankly I found the song really horrible. Just a bad production and lacking any interest for me. I waited in my car to hear the DJ say this was Wes's Bumpin' with arrangements by Don Sebesky.

Not every record Wes put out was solid. (at least for my taste, but the you-tube comments for this song are "my favorite Wes", which just goes to show that people can view music differently,,,, sometimes much differently).

Bumpin' is the only Wes album I ever bought (recorded a few more to cassette back in the day). I find it quite enjoyable, if not peak jazz Wes.

[jameslovestal]

Bumpin' is the only Wes album I ever bought (recorded a few more to cassette back in the day). I find it quite enjoyable, if not peak jazz Wes.

Like I said people can view music differently,,,, sometimes much differently.

I would much rather listen to Wes's Riverside records, Incredible Jazz Guitar, So Much Guitar, Movin' Along, Bags Meets Wes, Boss Guitar and Full House, or the Verse record Smoking at the Half Note.

[AndyV]

IMO the thing that continues to separate Wes from the rest (including GB and Pat Martino) is his impeccable and unmatched "taste", and he almost had all the technique he needed to express it -

Perfect encapsulation of what sets Wes apart: The audacious musicality her brought to everything from jazz standards to the pop material he did. For me, some of that pop material, like the Tequila LP, is just as great in its own way as his monumental Riverside records.

[S F]

The thing is Wes Montgomery was so easy to listen to as well as incredibly sophisticated as a musician. That is a really rare ability in any musician. Probably the epitome of what I consider the Best Jazz guitarist to ever lived.

Yup. I couldn't have said it better myself.