The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I would not like to think that there is a predominance here of ol' farts drooling over expensive gear with their ears glued to pre-70s (60s?) music - perish the thought. So why do the below extremely talented and currently active jazz guitarists (most of whom also compose) seem to get relatively little airtime 'round these parts? Where does it say that this is the 20th century only jazz guitar forum? Maybe I missed it.

    Matthew Stevens, Gilad Hekselman, Mike Moreno, Adam Rogers, Nir Felder (just a few that came to mind). Rosenwinkel and Kreisberg, too, to an extent.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I think all those names get plenty of love here on the forum.

    Scanning just the titles of the first page of threads here in the 'players' section, I see John Scofield, Pasquale Grasso, Mike Moreno, Jocelyn Gould, Marc Ribot, Ben Monder, Jesse van Ruller, Tim Lerch, Jim Mullen, Julian Lage, Steve Cardenas, Chico Pinheiro, Russell Malone, Lionel Loueke, Kurt Rosenwinkel and Jonathan Stout. That's a pretty good spread of musicians working today.

  4. #3

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    Plenty of love, I have my doubts. Players like Scofield and Jim Mullen are great, but not really what I'm talking about.

  5. #4

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    I have 1300 Cd and I should write about each one?
    Scof is the best!!!

  6. #5

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    Start some threads! I'll talk all day about Matt Stevens and Nir Felder

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    I would not like to think that there is a predominance here of ol' farts drooling over expensive gear with their ears glued to pre-70s (60s?) music - perish the thought. So why do the below extremely talented and currently active jazz guitarists (most of whom also compose) seem to get relatively little airtime 'round these parts? Where does it say that this is the 20th century only jazz guitar forum? Maybe I missed it.

    Matthew Stevens, Gilad Hekselman, Mike Moreno, Adam Rogers, Nir Felder (just a few that came to mind). Rosenwinkel and Kreisberg, too, to an extent.
    Instead of asking questions why don't you just create threads about these fine players and initiate discussions.

    I admit I know little about these players since I grew up on the pre-70s guitarist but I believe most people at this forum are open minded and want to be made aware of talent that they may have passed over.

    I know I am; well unless they use too much distortion (ha ha).

    PS: and why are there no female guitarist in your list? Here is a very talented post-70s one:

    Last edited by jameslovestal; 12-10-2021 at 08:24 PM.

  8. #7

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    I’ve been watching and learning about an incredibly talented Mimi Fox recently. Thank you ‘Jazz Guitar Today’ and the you tube algorithm! I wish Emily Remler was still amongst us. There are plenty about.

  9. #8

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    Ahem:

    20th century jazz guitar forum?-screenshot-2021-12-10-3-04-07-pm-png

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    I’ve been watching and learning about an incredibly talented Mimi Fox recently. Thank you ‘Jazz Guitar Today’ and the you tube algorithm! I wish Emily Remler was still amongst us. There are plenty about.
    Big fan of Mimi Fox but she was born in 1956. I don't know what DOB cutoff people are using for 20th Century musician verses 21th.

    For me it is kind of silly to have any cutoff, but if Fox is a 21th Century musician, that makes me one too. Thanks for making me feel younger.

    PS: As for Emily Remler; yea big loss - I saw her in Hollywood CA a few months before she died. I also saw one of her first concerts at McCabes, in So Cal. What a talent.

  11. #10

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    This forum is what its individual members make of it. Please, initiate any type of discussion you'd like to have. The usual common-sense caveats apply, of course. If you feel that some of us need schoolin,' have at it!

  12. #11

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    OK, I started at least one Nir Felder thread in the past. You (Jeff) replied to it (I'm pretty sure), can't remember who else.... Time to enthuse about Matthew Stevens. There's no denying that these players get a lukewarm reception in general, hence this thread. They are both very interesting composers. I don't spend all day on this forum but I have been around for years.

    I don't get the impression that there is a lot of open-mindedness here. Not a fan of (excessive) distortion, either and, by the way, when god created man she was only joking. A thread I started about Sandra Hempel soon sank into oblivion.

    I'll check out Jocelyn Gould again. Thanks. She didn't make a great impression the first time and I actually don't care about the gender of any artist.

    By the way, I don't see the point of highlighting threads with only 1 or 2 replies. Kinda proves my point, unfortunately.

  13. #12

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    De gustibus …

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    OK, I started at least one Nir Felder thread in the past. You (Jeff) replied to it (I'm pretty sure), can't remember who else.... Time to enthuse about Matthew Stevens. There's no denying that these players get a lukewarm reception in general, hence this thread. They are both very interesting composers. I don't spend all day on this forum but I have been around for years.

    I don't get the impression that there is a lot of open-mindedness here. Not a fan of (excessive) distortion, either and, by the way, when god created man she was only joking. A thread I started about Sandra Hempel soon sank into oblivion.

    I'll check out Jocelyn Gould again. Thanks. She didn't make a great impression the first time and I actually don't care about the gender of any artist.

    By the way, I don't see the point of highlighting threads with only 1 or 2 replies. Kinda proves my point, unfortunately.
    I think some of it is the classic players have had their approaches analyzed for years, and a lot of what they're doing is pretty digestable for the common amateur picker that is our main clientele here (myself included)

    Some of the new breed have a pretty advanced concept, certainly over my head, so aside from saying "Man, he/she sounds great," there's not much I personally can intelligently discuss about them.

    And before anyone gets huffy, advanced doesn't mean better.

  15. #14

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    This forum is no different from others. Split into boomers (I hate that ‘old fart’ term) and young folks who are trying hard to get their new and valid points across. So good you for making the attempt! Don’t lose the drive, as Cit said we can use the schooling.
    And by the way, there are plenty of us fossils that are very much through listening to our peers playing Charlie Parker heads over and over. (Fossil… much nicer term, yes?)))

    Now you all want to see some REAL young vs fossil fights? Any amateur radio forum where the fossils insist you’re not a radio expert unless you can send and read code. (dots and dashes) at 35+ WPM. “ like I did when I was in the service”. Dude, when we’re you in? WWI? WWII? Code has been gone professionally since around 2000. People want/need to learn about satellites, moon bounce, digital fast bursts, and my favorite: below noise floor communication.

    So see we here are not alone. “The youth are inheriting the earth!” As it should be. Those my age refusing that, well, they’re the Old Farts!

    jk

  16. #15

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    Yes, I usually eschew the use of that epithet. All down to a little peeve.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    my favorite: below noise floor communication.
    20th century jazz guitar forum?-very-interesting-jpg

  18. #17

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    Peter C,

    where are Lage Lund,Chris Crocco,Ben Eunson?
    Last edited by kris; 12-10-2021 at 06:56 PM.

  19. #18

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    My thoughts only- anyone playing today is 21st C and relevant regardless of their age. What is the difference between a player in their 60s or a player in their 30s save for perhaps up to 30 years more experience?

    keep in mind too/ there is now a generation of players that have digested, transcribed, harmonically analysed and written whole books on the players who were at their peak in the 50s/60s. Which in turn leads to accessibility of that knowledge to the rest of us mere mortals. In the future people will write of some of the current crop of musicians. It is no surprise that their music dominates the conversations.
    And I have no doubt that for every Wes or Herbie or Miles there were dozens of active artists that did not make the cut to he considered in the future in the same light. It has been this way throughout musics history.
    Bach was not the only bloke composing music during his time!

  20. #19

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    Sure, forum member age is a factor but so is musical accessibility, or lack thereof.

    After bop we had post bop. Wes, and then George, ruled. They were swinging and very, very melodic players that listeners could relate to.

    Then we had fusion, funk, and then whatever the heck it is that came after that and what we still have today. Everybody is a composer because playing old standards is just, well, old. But not everyone is a great composer.

    And while good, not everyone is a great improvisor either. There's a lot of noodly playing today, a lot of outside playing, a lot of arcane and esoteric playing. Let's just come right out and say it - many/most listeners don't relate to it.

    No disrespect to all the wonderful players in "the current scene" but the biggest of the big all time greats only come along so often. When you consider the contributions of Django, Charlie, Barney, Joe, Wes, and Jim, plus the boomers with Pat and George, Larry and John, then Metheny and even Allan... it's pretty tough to break out beyond that and make a big splash.

    I know it's a cliche, but for the most part "it's all been done" - and pretty darned well. Not that it matters, but my personal jazz guitar fandom certainly doesn't end with Wes and Joe, but after Benson and McLaughlin? I think we're still waiting for the next jazz guitar hero/heros.

  21. #20

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    Lage Lund is prolly still jammin at Mike's with these guys


    I just said the ones that came to mind at that moment.

    EastwoodMike, point taken. Man, I'm "old", but it's all about mindset IMO.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    OK, I started at least one Nir Felder thread in the past. You (Jeff) replied to it (I'm pretty sure), can't remember who else.... Time to enthuse about Matthew Stevens. There's no denying that these players get a lukewarm reception in general, hence this thread. They are both very interesting composers. I don't spend all day on this forum but I have been around for years.

    I don't get the impression that there is a lot of open-mindedness here. Not a fan of (excessive) distortion, either and, by the way, when god created man she was only joking. A thread I started about Sandra Hempel soon sank into oblivion.

    I'll check out Jocelyn Gould again. Thanks. She didn't make a great impression the first time and I actually don't care about the gender of any artist.

    By the way, I don't see the point of highlighting threads with only 1 or 2 replies. Kinda proves my point, unfortunately.
    I admit I mostly listen to jazz guitarist playing jazz standard or other songs I know the changes to \ that I play. I prefer this since it helps me improve my playing; I hear things I like and try to incorporate them (if I have the skill) into my playing. I have heard the old-farts play these standards for decades, so I can't get any new ideas from listening to that, but hearing younger players play standards can provide such ideas.

    I need to develop more patience to take the time to listen to original compositions. In this way I appreciate when someone here takes the time to post some.

  23. #22

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    Golden age jazz forum? That's the way it should be!

    Yeah no, it is mostly golden age on here, but by no means is the forum unaccepting of new jazz. Discuss new jazz to your heart's content and people will be knowledgeable and accepting of it.

    I used to not care for mod jazz because I wrote the players off as incapable of doing anything besides atonal and spooky. But there are some really incredible players out there. Also the mod culture has embraced traditional playing and reconciled it with the new. I'm not accepting of the idea that golden age playing is antiquated. I think that's still one of the best jumping off points to making jazz but some of the new approaches are terrif as well.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    My thoughts only- anyone playing today is 21st C and relevant regardless of their age. What is the difference between a player in their 60s or a player in their 30s save for perhaps up to 30 years more experience?

    keep in mind too/ there is now a generation of players that have digested, transcribed, harmonically analysed and written whole books on the players who were at their peak in the 50s/60s. Which in turn leads to accessibility of that knowledge to the rest of us mere mortals. In the future people will write of some of the current crop of musicians. It is no surprise that their music dominates the conversations.
    And I have no doubt that for every Wes or Herbie or Miles there were dozens of active artists that did not make the cut to he considered in the future in the same light. It has been this way throughout musics history.
    Bach was not the only bloke composing music during his time!
    +1
    Great post
    Thanks
    kris

  25. #24

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    What can be said about young talented guitarists who play great but are practically absent on the so-called jazz market.
    In a confrontation with, for example, John Scofield, they have no chance.
    Scofield has recorded dozens of CDs with the greatest jazz musicians and toured all over the world.
    By playing very difficult stuff, he climbed to the top.
    All young guitarists know him and he is very pleased about it.
    Best
    Kris

  26. #25

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    don't forget Mike Stern ... :-)