The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    In fact, San Getz was smooth jazz, just not Smooth Jazz.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Lol .. I can make statements like that too

    Which of those albums you mention would you nominate as anywhere close to be a good classic album like Sgt. Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon, Led Zeppelin IV etc?
    I guess I don't follow. We were talking about Kenny G--Smooth Jazz--vs Stan Getz--straight-ahead, old school jazz. Classic rock isn't relevant here. Unless I'm missing something.

    As far as Stan Getz, he did play "smooth", and some of his contemporaries might have criticized him for being too pop or not being hardcore, but he always played with skill and energy. Even up to the end of his life he could bring the goods, and did.

    If Kenny wants to use him as a model, fine with me. I don't find the song he recorded over Louis Armstrong to be sacriligious, I just don't find that type of performance the least bit interesting. It doesn't enhance the original one bit, in fact distracts from it.

    If we're going to do posthumous duets, the one that Natalie did with her dad Nat King Cole was pretty good, and the Beatles songs they produced after John had left us were OK. If there's a dialogue there, that's one thing, but to noodle over someone else's work is not interesting to me.

    Come to think of it there was an album with someone rapping over Miles a couple of years ago. I gave it one listen.

  4. #53

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    Roller skating chops...


  5. #54

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    Believe it or nuts, someone actually made a documentary on Kenny G, and what his standing is in the minds of a bunch of people. I couldn't care less about the guy, but I hope the director interviewed PM, just for entertainment value.
    The blurb in the Times mentions some PC crap about KG's misappropriation of cultural blah, blah blah...

    It's going to be in theaters next month.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    I have two points
    First is about comparing apples to oranges. You define Miles or Coltrane as the holy grail and ask what smooth jazz compares to that ... They don't off course, cause they're apples and oranges and Miles isn't relevant in a discussion of Smooth Jazz. The records you mention are from the 50s/60s and smooth jazz is 20 years later.

    Funny how when I bring up Sgt. Pepper you have no problem telling me that Classic Rock isn't relevant here


    The second point is off course that those Miles and Coltrane records are small records that Sgt Pepper outshines by far both in selling copies, but also as art and as a cultural phenomenon
    Purely subjective opinion. Sales are not a measure of art or cultural excellence.

  7. #56

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    In the 1980s there were Chick Corea, Weather Report and Pat Metheny tunes played on the smooth jazz radio stations... the tune Spain for example.

    What is smooth jazz? It was determined by the smooth jazz radio stations, they created the genre by what they selected for the format.

  8. #57

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    Wow... you guys are still letting Kenny "impact" you??? LOL

  9. #58

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    "Are you really going to try to tell me that Kind of Blue was a bigger cultural phenomenon/experience than Sgt. Pepper? " Lobomov


    I think we're all probably on the same page and are, perhaps, just quibbling about terms. From a Sociological perspective, Lobo's above comment is certainly correct based on numbers but it cannot be true from an artistic perspective since comparing the Beatles to Miles would be unfair to both since the genres are so different and reflect a different audience.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  10. #59

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    I think smooth jazz has its origins at that time in the mid-sixties, after the British Invasion, when jazz was no longer hip and record companies tried to compete with pop by releasing albums of ingratiating covers of contemporary hit songs. As examples, the three albums Wes Montgomery made for A&M are memorable, if nothing else. Scott Janow wrote of them, "In most cases the guitarist did little more than play the melody, using his distinctive octaves, and it was enough to make him saleable. Of his three A&M recordings, A Day in the Life (the first one) was by far the best and, although the jazz content is almost nil, the results are pleasing as background music." Jazz became the background to lifestyles, music that was not listened to but heard.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I think smooth jazz has its origins at that time in the mid-sixties, after the British Invasion, when jazz was no longer hip and record companies tried to compete with pop by releasing albums of ingratiating covers of contemporary hit songs. As examples, the three albums Wes Montgomery made for A&M are memorable, if nothing else. Scott Janow wrote of them, "In most cases the guitarist did little more than play the melody, using his distinctive octaves, and it was enough to make him saleable. Of his three A&M recordings, A Day in the Life (the first one) was by far the best and, although the jazz content is almost nil, the results are pleasing as background music." Jazz became the background to lifestyles, music that was not listened to but heard.
    It shows you what a jerk Scott Yanow (and many jazz critics) is. ADITL was not "by far the best" of the three A&M recordings. He did some of his best work on another of the three albums, and they were all recorded and arranged superbly, and had some of the best studio musicians (like Herbie Hancock) backing him.
    There were some mediocre tracks, but Wes was still Wes, and his musicality came through on everything he did.
    Simplicity does not equal simple mindedness.

  12. #61

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    No it does not show he is a jerk. It shows he is a critic who has an opinion, one I believe has merit but with which you disagree.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I think smooth jazz has its origins at that time in the mid-sixties, after the British Invasion, when jazz was no longer hip and record companies tried to compete with pop by releasing albums of ingratiating covers of contemporary hit songs. As examples, the three albums Wes Montgomery made for A&M are memorable, if nothing else. Scott Janow wrote of them, "In most cases the guitarist did little more than play the melody, using his distinctive octaves, and it was enough to make him saleable. Of his three A&M recordings, A Day in the Life (the first one) was by far the best and, although the jazz content is almost nil, the results are pleasing as background music." Jazz became the background to lifestyles, music that was not listened to but heard.

    Hi, L,
    Well said! As a young R@B/Soul guitarist in the 60's, those albums were my first exposure to Jazz guitar. They had a real impact allowing me to see other possibilities with the instrument. They featured world-class musicians(Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Grady Tate, Ray Barretto) and the album was No. 1 on the Billboard Jazz chart. And, all the musicians took home a nice paycheck for their services. Remember, before his success, Montgomery was a club guitarist who worked as a welder during the day to feed his large family. He had to know how to play music people liked if he wanted to keep his night gig and "A Day in the Life" was a prime example although he had been recording since 1959. So, unless Jazz will be forever destined to an elite listenership(as is Classical Opera), it must reach out to a wider audience for Jazz musicians to make a living playing the genre and it certainly has worked for Wes and Kenny. The life of the starving artist is a sad one, indeed.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I like most of those players TBH--was a big Chuck Mangione fan back in the day, and of course Grover and George B and David Sanborn. And Spyro Gyra. I don't hate Kenny G but don't find him very interesting compared to the great sax players. All these players have chops of course--I wouldn't dispute that.

    I don't even dislike smooth jazz, just don't find it very stimulating. Good background music. I like the vocal music labelled smooth jazz--Sade, Anita Baker, Al Jarreau--quite a bit more, because vocals usually carry more feeling that instruments in those arrangements.

    There are different types of smooth jazz though. Feel So Good by CM and Breezin' by GB are both very commercial and helped start the smooth jazz movement. But they are melodically very accomplished, and with great arrangements. And of course Bob James, Spyro Gyra and Grover Washington.

    After that though in the '80's IMO most things labeled smooth jazz became overproduced and too commercial. GB's more commercial RNB albums since the '80's just don't compare to his previous output. Great players like Chet Atkins, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton and David Sanborn put out very slick albums that were easy listening and not very interesting musically. They also put out some good stuff as well, and most of these guys (who are still with us) have "come back into the fold" with straightahead jazz albums in the last decade or so.

    There are a whole bunch of other musicians who have been very successful in the smooth jazz realm who just don't have the cred with straightahead jazz. Real jazz isn't just chord changes or fast scales, it's taking risks and having an interplay with the other musicians you are playing with in real time. That's what's lacking in the smooth jazz genre on the whole.
    1983, this GB album was exceptional. It had 4-5 hits out of 10 cuts. The album was called In Your Eyes. You must have missed it. No worries, here it is. BTW, there was no bigger CM fan than me. I was a flugelhorn player in the 70’s and 80’s.


  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    1983, this GB album was exceptional. It had 4-5 hits out of 10 cuts. The album was called In Your Eyes. You must have missed it. No worries, here it is. BTW, there was no bigger CM fan than me. I was a flugelhorn player in the 70’s and 80’s.

    He has put out some good records since the early '80's. Absolute Benson was quite good, also Guitar Man. You can't lump them all into one group.

  16. #65

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    Speaking of non-jazz Benson, this two-chord jam, can anyone else do it like that! It's not easy to keep it interesting over two chords, he kills it. And that voice! (Guita solo starts around 2:30, voice starts near the beginning).


  17. #66

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    But does Kenny G’s music have any soul? Benson’s music and the other examples of commercially successful pop-jazz do of course. Kenny just oozes whitebread non-swinging elevator music sludge

    soul here is short hand to having some foot in the various African musical traditions - hard to claim that for Kenny, who is more of a Pat Boone type character

  18. #67

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    Yeah, sure, so we're facing the end of civilization and Kenny G. too.

    But I want to now why the entertainment industry hasn't yet provided us with a
    high-quality roller girl film to Leon Russell's "Queen of the Roller Derby."


  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit
    Yeah, sure, so we're facing the end of civilization and Kenny G. too.

    I hear NASA is sending up a rocket to intercept Kenny G's new project and prevent it impacting us.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick

    I hear NASA is sending up a rocket to intercept Kenny G's new project and prevent it impacting us.
    With Bruce Willis on board, he is going to detonate a nuclear bomb inside it before it can do us any harm.

  21. #70
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    With Bruce Willis on board, he is going to detonate a nuclear bomb inside it before it can do us any harm.
    Just kidding. I have no opinion on the man's abilities. But this one cracks me up all the time.

    DB


  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Just kidding. I have no opinion on the man's abilities. But this one cracks me up all the time.

    DB


    Hi, D,
    Funny. However, that's the technique/gimmick of "circular breathing" which I could never master as a saxophonist. However, G has taken it to the level of Barnum and Bailey . . . however, in response to BWV . . . nothing stinks worse than Pat Boone . . . music's prime example of the "Peter Principle."
    Play live . . . Marinero

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Just kidding. I have no opinion on the man's abilities. But this one cracks me up all the time.

    DB

    Bravissimo, Maestro G!

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Just kidding. I have no opinion on the man's abilities. But this one cracks me up all the time.

    DB

    If your note lasts more than 4 hours, please see your doctor.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Just kidding. I have no opinion on the man's abilities. But this one cracks me up all the time.
    Baddaboom! And there's my little One Note Samba joke. Only took 2 pages of posts. I think I read he actually did a Guiness Book thing for the longest note on saxophone... for some reason.

    Not bad punk. Now try it with 3:
    Attached Images Attached Images Kenny G has a new project impacting us.-rkirk-png 

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    Baddaboom! And there's my little One Note Samba joke. Only took 2 pages of posts. I think I read he actually did a Guiness Book thing for the longest note on saxophone... for some reason.

    Not bad punk. Now try it with 3:
    Hi, C,
    Would Freud the Fraud call this "Oral Fixation????"
    Play live . . . Marinero