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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor View Post
    Just for the record, I do not doubt the foundation does many good things (education). However by its nature their main goal is make more money. Of course they LOVED it.
    And I thought I was cynical...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Branford Marsalis once stated in an interview with Jazziz magazine: "When all these jazz guys get in a tizzy over Kenny G, they need to leave Kenny alone. He's not stealing jazz. The audience he has wouldn't be caught dead at a real jazz concert or club. It's not like some guy says, 'You know, I used to listen to Miles, Trane and Ornette. And then I heard Kenny G, and I never put on another Miles record.' It's a completely different audience".
    Yeah, I remember the Marsalis family giving Brandon sh1t over playing with Sting, lol.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
    Yeah, I remember the Marsalis family giving Brandon sh1t over playing with Sting, lol.
    That reminds me, we once went to see pianist Joey Calderazzo and his trio (with brother Gene on drums) at the Tenor Clef jazz club in London. At the end of the set, Branford Marsalis walked in unannounced with his tenor sax, sat in with Joey, and blew his ass off on a load of standards. It was great, in fact I enjoyed his playing far more on this occasion than when I saw him with his own quartet.

    Branford explained that he had just finished playing a London concert with Sting, then heard Joey was in town and came over. I guess he couldn't wait to play some jazz!

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor View Post
    I was not talking about *genres* I do not care about genres and think Jimmy Page is one of the greatest rock musician. Also think GB is one of the greatest, and when he plays soul (for example Masquerade) that is equal musical and artistic value as all my other heroes, including Wes, or Kenny Burrell. Freddie Hubbard, etc.

    My starting point with this thread was that makes more sense arguing about KGs act was right or not, and PM act was right or not, instead of their music.

    However when GBs music was also involved... If anyone thinks that GB and KG has anything to do with each other, just because GB plays soul... and I also do not understand why should I participate on a GB concert to understand and evaluate GB? I was not in a single Wes concert, still can admire him. Same goes to GB, and not because his bebop recordings
    Someone added that "genre" stuff to my post. Anyhow the topic here was what PM said about KG. To me it was misguided (at best).

    As for GB: the wider topic of 'selling out' was mentioned: GB did indeed 'sell out'; so did Wes, so did other great jazz musicians. That is a fact. In no way does that diminish what they have accomplished. One has to have multiple skills in order to sell-out and my guess is that those that complain are mostly just jealous to some degree.

  6. #55

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    I sure don't see what's wrong with earning. I wish I'd been better at that...

  7. #56

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    Kenny G - Havana - Bing video with savion glover

  8. #57

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    Fortunately, the music is diverse and you can choose what you like.
    It should also be remembered that jazz will not be as popular as, for example, pop.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
    And I thought I was cynical...
    here you go, now you are :-)

  10. #59

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    OK, I have to accept no one wants to discuss about if KGs act of overdubbing was inappropriate, and also about if PM had right to state that. It is a shame, because, both questions way more important and interesting and are related to ethics, so more exciting than music likes and dislikes.

    Anyway

    I think the sell out thing and also the money thing is really does not matter. All artists sell. So stating an artist sell, or earns money do not imply any conclusion, neither sbout his personslity, neither his music quality.

    However stating KG plays smoth jazz and stating GB plays smooth jazz is mistake. GB never plays smooth jazz, he plays soul. KG also do not play smooth jazz, despite the instrument he plays pop.

    The genre is not determined by instrument or the act of improvization. Jimmy Page, Richie Blackmore alse improvized, still the genre is rock. On Pink Floyd Money or Wish You Were Here, there are improvized saxophone solos, it would be insane call it smooth jazz. The music style what KG produces based on the harmonic content, and mood are clearly pop.

    So trying to discover similarities on KG and GB is really a mistake. Both are human beings and both earn money as a musicisn, and the similarities end here. They never played in the same genre or style, and have way different musical qualities.

  11. #60

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    Better to play guitar than worry about it all.

  12. #61

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    Imo, Metheny's style is just as gross as Kenny G's. I don't distinguish the 2 at all.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor View Post
    KG also do not play smooth jazz, despite the instrument he plays pop.
    No, he plays smooth jazz and it just happens to be popular - 75m record sales and counting.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsclosson View Post
    As a sax player, I used to be critical of Kenny G. Then I saw this video on YouTube:


    Kenny G is not afraid to laugh at himself a little. Several interviews I have seen reflect that he is very humble, gracious, articulate and an all around nice guy. If I ever had the opportunity, I would gladly sit down and have a beer with with him. I would even love to jam with him a little. After all, in all reality, who the heck am I?

    I don't listen to him a lot but I respect what he has done. He is not trying to be anything but what he is.
    Haters gonna hate. Kenny plays LA music and Pat plays music for musicians.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
    Yeah, I remember the Marsalis family giving Brandon sh1t over playing with Sting, lol.
    Japan gave Branford sh1t for writing stupid melodies.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    Someone added that "genre" stuff to my post. Anyhow the topic here was what PM said about KG. To me it was misguided (at best).

    As for GB: the wider topic of 'selling out' was mentioned: GB did indeed 'sell out'; so did Wes, so did other great jazz musicians. That is a fact. In no way does that diminish what they have accomplished. One has to have multiple skills in order to sell-out and my guess is that those that complain are mostly just jealous to some degree.
    no, it is an opinion.

    that is a fact.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by SandChannel View Post
    No, he plays smooth jazz and it just happens to be popular - 75m record sales and counting.
    smooth yes, Jazz?

    link to a jazz performance by KG please.

  18. #67

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    I still think Pat's "takedown" of Kenny G was epic and spot on.

    I also don't think the situation has to be a zero sum scenario. As a hard working musician I'm sure it drove Pat and others like nuts to see Kenny G selling the # of albums he was.

    At the same time, Kenny G seems like a decent chap, one that knows he's not a jazz god.

    So, I'd say Pat's still spot on, and Kenny G seems like quite a decent character.

    RF

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar View Post
    smooth yes, Jazz?

    link to a jazz performance by KG please.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Haters gonna hate. Kenny plays LA music and Pat plays music for musicians.

    I saw a lot of listeners at the PM concert.
    If they were only musicians, I did not know that there are so many musicians in the world.
    Last edited by kris; 09-16-2021 at 04:29 AM.

  21. #70

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    I am going to practise guitar...

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar View Post
    smooth yes, Jazz?

    link to a jazz performance by KG please.
    Jazz? Yes. Someone already posted something to check out.

  23. #72

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    I prefer David Sanborn!!!

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor View Post
    OK, I have to accept no one wants to discuss about if KGs act of overdubbing was inappropriate, and also about if PM had right to state that. It is a shame, because, both questions way more important and interesting and are related to ethics, so more exciting than music likes and dislikes.
    Yes, i think this has been forgotten about due to metheny's lambasting of Gorelicks playing to make his point. It seemed to me,that metheny's main issue with Gorelick, was the act of overdubbing himself, that he was making an artistic statement to suggest he was worthy of being at the same artistic level as Louis Armstrong. Again, seemingly forgotten about, metheny also makes a very good point regarding Larry Coryell overdubbing himself on a Wes Montgomery recording. Taken in that context I can see how that would irk people who were aware of and respected the traditions of where the music came from. I mean, how could anyone imagine Coryell being at the same artistic level as Wes?
    He was also taking music critics to task about where they stood on this issue, however most chose to focus on the vitriol from Metheny about Gorelicks playing.

  25. #74

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    I am thinking about making an album where I just overdub myself on Metheny tracks.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris View Post
    I prefer David Sanborn!!!

    Actually, David did a lot of straight ahead gigs before the Smooth Jazz stuff. He was heavily influenced by saxophonist Hank Crawford, who played on a ton of jazz albums. David's improv skills are lights years ahead of those from Kenny G.




    Cheers,
    Arnie..
    Last edited by arnie65; 09-16-2021 at 07:14 PM.