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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    I like in James how it’s all baroque moves in the bridge.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Beato did a great interview and PM revealed a lot of valuable insights.
    What changed in the eighties... PM described from a few perspectives

    mentions old guys vs new guys

    mentions being in a band vs showing up playing with anyone

    mentions never having music on stage vs playing out of books and charts

    ...full disclosure, I am an old guy, I play in bands, and I have never had a book or chart on stage.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Yes .. Indeed ... That is his shtick .. Presenting songs as root based and with the extensions as the explanation of what makes this song great


    Now the thing is that is hard to know is whether he actually hears, sees or understands music like this .. or whether it's a deliberate choice cause it's in some ways advanced, but still simple enough so that the noobs to early intermediates that make up the vast majority of his target audience can nod along and go "Ahh yes .. I get it"
    Hard to say! He knows his audience.

  5. #54

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    Pat is a great guitar player.He has his own language of musical expression.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was amazed by Pat’s claim that he never eats anything on the day of a gig, because being hungry makes him play better. ...
    I used to do this for exams when I was in school (geophysics, not music). I have no proof that it worked, but it seemed to help me concentrate. Of course my career in geophysics was mostly a failure, so there's that to consider.

  7. #56

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    The other thing that Pat demonstrates in this interview is the vivid, detailed memory that you see in those who are at the top of their field. Ask Michael Jordan about any inconsequential mid-season game that occurred throughout his career and he could tell you about it in great detail. Same with other great athletes, musicians, etc.
    Last edited by Mark M.; 08-23-2021 at 06:31 PM.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Given gig food otw probably a good move health wise…. I have to say it’s hard to play after inhaling a whole pizza in the time between sound check and downbeat
    Funny and so true for most but in his case - for the past 30 years he got the full monty re transportation, accommodation, catering etc. when he travels "officially", i.e. his agent sends him off to a gig.
    Well ok, not the private plane but not coach either.
    I once met him at the airport in Rome some 20 years ago and we talked for a while, about his being on the road all the time (amongst other things) and he was totally cool and relaxed about it, said he's living the dream. On another occasion I met Steve Swallow one day in early April and he said he's been to Europe the 5th time that year already, playing single gigs and delivering commissioned
    compositions. He'd rather stay at his house in Woodstock and compose but he had to travel to make a living ... didn't like it very much. Pat is quite the Super Star in the jazz world and his status is growing all the time it seems - deservedly so IMHO.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I assume he’s referring to the Wynton Marsalis/neobop revivalist thing that happened around then.
    I took it as referring to the end of the generation gap in American culture as the generation immediately following the baby boom came of age, with music and pop culture in general ceasing to be a bone of contention between parents and kid. The first gig I ever played was in 1980, so the comment did jump out at me. I was actually born during the baby boom, but at the tail end, and did not feel any sense of the inter-generational conflict people only a few years older than I am did. So, it sort of fits with my experience, but it seems kind of facile.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitman
    Funny and so true for most but in his case - for the past 30 years he got the full monty re transportation, accommodation, catering etc. when he travels "officially", i.e. his agent sends him off to a gig.
    Well ok, not the private plane but not coach either.
    I once met him at the airport in Rome some 20 years ago and we talked for a while, about his being on the road all the time (amongst other things) and he was totally cool and relaxed about it, said he's living the dream. On another occasion I met Steve Swallow one day in early April and he said he's been to Europe the 5th time that year already, playing single gigs and delivering commissioned
    compositions. He'd rather stay at his house in Woodstock and compose but he had to travel to make a living ... didn't like it very much. Pat is quite the Super Star in the jazz world and his status is growing all the time it seems - deservedly so IMHO.
    It's still travel, and your relationship to it changes a lot when you do a lot of it. I have done this in the past, not so much now.

    The thing about going on holiday is that you only have to fly in and fly out, and then sit on a beach or whatever, right? Despite how glamorous it may sound, no-one really enjoys hanging around airports and being driven to and from places. It's tedious and knackering, and then you have to soundcheck and play a show, usually the same day. That's not going to change fundamentally. Maybe you get business class, a better class of hotels and more rest days (depending on the bottom line, scheduling etc) if you're Pat, better sound, guitar tech etc, it all helps, but certain things can't change.

    Until you do it as a job, it's hard to see what people are moaning about haha. It's a privilege and a joy to play music, but there are elements there that aren't for everyone.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 08-24-2021 at 06:29 AM.

  11. #60

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    I think Pat was created to be a big star and not every great jazzman has had the opportunity to travel as much as Pat.
    Pat's concerts were big events.
    It reminded me a bit of rock band tours.Lights, great sound system, CDs, Pat T-shirts etc.
    The music, however, was always at the highest level.
    I've seen a couple of Pat's shows - they were all Great .

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    I think Pat was created to be a big star and not every great jazzman has had the opportunity to travel as much as Pat.
    Pat's concerts were big events.
    It reminded me a bit of rock band tours.Lights, great sound system, CDs, Pat T-shirts etc.
    The music, however, was always at the highest level.
    I've seen a couple of Pat's shows - they were all Great .
    That wasn't really relevant to the point I was making.

    (Anyway, my point wasn't really relevant to thread haha.)

    Gary Burton characterised Pat's greatest talent as being a great communicator, someone who connects with the audience in a very special way.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    That wasn't really relevant to the point I was making.

    (Anyway, my point wasn't really relevant to thread haha.)

    Gary Burton characterised Pat's greatest talent as being a great communicator, someone who connects with the audience in a very special way.
    It's rare to be a great communicator and player but also a highly intellectual player and composer. Pat's recent works are among the best of his career, IMO, in terms of composition. He's almost superceded his skill as a guitarist, if that makes sense.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was amazed by Pat’s claim that he never eats anything on the day of a gig, because being hungry makes him play better.

    I think I would pass out by the time the gig came round!
    and considering that the guy did about 300 gigs a year for 20 years…

    I have always thought that Pat Metheny is one of the most articulate interviews in music. So many musicians may play brilliantly but have a hard time verbally describing what they do and why. Metheny seems very capable of explaining what he is doing and why he is choosing to do it. I wonder how much of that comes from his formative experiences with Gary Burton, since he apparently had long discussions after gigs with him. By reputation, Burton with something of a demanding bandleader who would ask things like "in the fourth bar of your solo on Falling Grace, you played an E flat. Was that intentional and why did you chose that?"

    Those sorts of discussions tend to make me realize why they- and many others- are great musicians and I am not. I just don't think like that. They hear, experience, internalize and think about music very differently than I do. I am delighted when I hear one clear line to play; people like this appear to hear an infinity of lines that could be played.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    It's still travel, and your relationship to it changes a lot when you do a lot of it. I have done this in the past, not so much now.

    The thing about going on holiday is that you only have to fly in and fly out, and then sit on a beach or whatever, right? Despite how glamorous it may sound, no-one really enjoys hanging around airports and being driven to and from places. It's tedious and knackering, and then you have to soundcheck and play a show, usually the same day. That's not going to change fundamentally. Maybe you get business class, a better class of hotels and more rest days (depending on the bottom line, scheduling etc) if you're Pat, better sound, guitar tech etc, it all helps, but certain things can't change.

    Until you do it as a job, it's hard to see what people are moaning about haha. It's a privilege and a joy to play music, but there are elements there that aren't for everyone.
    Why in some ways it's better to be an amateur.

  16. #65
    How do you fast before an evening gig when you gig maybe 200 days a year? He should weigh about three pounds!The Pat Metheny Interview (by Rick Beato)


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  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul.trapanese
    How do you fast before an evening gig when you gig maybe 200 days a year? He should weigh about three pounds!The Pat Metheny Interview (by Rick Beato)


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    Presumably he eats after the gig?

  18. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Presumably he eats after the gig?
    Ha! Yeah, I figured. Just being silly.


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  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    and considering that the guy did about 300 gigs a year for 20 years…

    I have always thought that Pat Metheny is one of the most articulate interviews in music. So many musicians may play brilliantly but have a hard time verbally describing what they do and why. Metheny seems very capable of explaining what he is doing and why he is choosing to do it. I wonder how much of that comes from his formative experiences with Gary Burton, since he apparently had long discussions after gigs with him. By reputation, Burton with something of a demanding bandleader who would ask things like "in the fourth bar of your solo on Falling Grace, you played an E flat. Was that intentional and why did you chose that?"

    Those sorts of discussions tend to make me realize why they- and many others- are great musicians and I am not. I just don't think like that. They hear, experience, internalize and think about music very differently than I do. I am delighted when I hear one clear line to play; people like this appear to hear an infinity of lines that could be played.
    I think I read somewhere that for a while he was practicing 12 hours a day. Could be wrong…maybe it was only 8 hours a day…

    It’s his job. It shouldn’t be surprising for someone who sets out to make a career in jazz playing and composition to be accomplished at his task.

    I will admit there is that special something extra in the true artists and geniuses of the world in addition to sweat. Pat seems to have a special affinity not just for the technical parts of music but also “the big picture”—the ability to play with others in a telepathic fashion and to write wonderful melodies that excite the spirit.

  20. #69

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    Pat mentioned his chops getting better over time in the video

    Remember seeing him give a clinic at UNT in the early 90s which opened my at the time jaded by shredders ears to how good his RH picking technique was. You don’t hear as much of that on the earlier ECM records (not that the playing isn’t great). It seems like he continued to get better - the last two PMG records he absolutely shreds on - Proof would be proof of this

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    I have always thought that Pat Metheny is one of the most articulate interviews in music. So many musicians may play brilliantly but have a hard time verbally describing what they do and why. Metheny seems very capable of explaining what he is doing and why he is choosing to do it. I wonder how much of that comes from his formative experiences with Gary Burton, since he apparently had long discussions after gigs with him.
    At around the 1:02:00 mark he talks about how he takes copious notes after every gig, and how he's been doing this for years. Much like keeping a journal/diary can help one better express what's going on with one internally, I suspect this practice of his is what contributes to his ability to communicate so clearly.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWV
    Pat mentioned his chops getting better over time in the video

    Remember seeing him give a clinic at UNT in the early 90s which opened my at the time jaded by shredders ears to how good his RH picking technique was. You don’t hear as much of that on the earlier ECM records (not that the playing isn’t great). It seems like he continued to get better - the last two PMG records he absolutely shreds on - Proof would be proof of this
    His picking chops have definitely developed

  23. #72

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    My thoughts:

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    (1st entry)...

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    My thoughts:

    Joel Fass | Facebook

    (1st entry)...
    Any reason not to post the entirety of your Facebook post here rather than a link to it on FB?

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    Any reason not to post the entirety of your Facebook post here rather than a link to it on FB?
    Only that I've been having problems posting anything here---screen freezes; error messages; and I have to copy and then paste as many as 5 times. So I just wanted to make it easy. Feel free to copy and paste it---my name's on it...

  26. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    Only that I've been having problems posting anything here---screen freezes; error messages; and I have to copy and then paste as many as 5 times. So I just wanted to make it easy. Feel free to copy and paste it---my name's on it...
    This was a very thought-inducing watch and listen for me.

    Pat is a great musician I've at times had mixed feelings about, his philosophies and actual playing. When I like his work I really like it, as when he gets down to brass tacks solo, bringing out the beauty of a song and Pat himself being so secure in his voice he can disappear as an ego 'proving' something. It's a sensibility I myself have tried for, so naturally I admire it when someone does it as well as he does. And he's tremendously lyrical and came up with something totally him that was a game changer. More about that shortly.

    OTOH having as much chops as he, and many of his followers (whose musical shortcomings are their OWN fault, NOT his) has can be dangerous. Pat can be, and talks about being purely melodic. But he doesn't always DO it---it's too, well, pat, when he turns on the flash button. I'm thinking of the sage comment of Bob Brookmeyer about those 'vanilla fudge' notes: those safe lick things that will always sound good and be fun to play---but is it real note-to-note, idea-to-idea improvising when they're sort of suddenly and even randomly stuck in? I don't mean to say Pat does this with real frequency---he can be thrillingly in the moment and not lick or safety-reliant. And, hell, we all need that 'glue' to get from point A to B. What I do mean is it's not my favorite facet of his (or anyone's) work.

    The use of pedals is up for grabs. Like it or don't. I think Pat is one of these people, like Herbie Hancock, who are fascinated by gadgets and technology. I admit that one of my own failings is that I have no talent for the mechanical, other than the car or microwave. But technology is here to stay, and, used intelligently and creatively, can add beauty and depth to music---as witness Malcolm Cecil's synth programming for Stevie Wonder's breakout '70s recordings. Marvelous and still fresh as a daisy. But why is it I most enjoy Pat with an acoustic only? Just personal taste---it's harder to me to coax beauty and sensitivity out of just the instrument. And what bugs me about all the digitization is it robs personality---it's harder to tell one player from another b/c the subtleties are lost. Pat, to his credit, IS easy to hear. He's made certain electronic sounds and devices personal hallmarks.

    Then there's rhythm, and the fact that the 8th note in jazz and jazz-related music has become straighter, less 'loping'. My objection for a long time was that he was leading players away from the swing that was such a gift from Charlie Christian; Pres; Wes; Pops---a venerable tradition that is the plasma of jazz. But wait---isn't innovation and change also an important part? Musicians of Pat's generation (and I'm his age) grew up around the Beatles; black R & B; Dylan; blues; country music, etc. I myself had all that stuff wash over me before I finally heard Bird at around 17. Musicians like Pat; Bill Evans; Chick Corea; Gary Burton; Lee Konitz deserve a lot of props for being honest and courageous enough to be THEMSELVES, not imitation black men. They came out of a different culture than Miles or Monk, and loved black jazz, but played from where THEY came from. Not 'jazz'? Puuleese! Narrowmindedness is not jazz. And Pat was and is a game-changer, rhythmically and lyrically. And he can BURN, believe that.

    This is a very worthwhile vid. I learned a lot watching. And Mr. Beato is performing a valuable service to musicians and fans with these probing discussions...


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