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  1. #1

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Watched that the other day. It’s excellent. But seems unfinished? As in few if any subtitles. Still great though.


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  4. #3

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    I just watched it as well. It’s excellent. Well worth the time.

  5. #4

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    thanks for posting, as a result I found this duo w/Toots Thielemans
    Toots is ridiculously good but Jaco has a nice sense of shading and dynamics on piano. bass playing aside, not bad for a kid from Norristown PA [wait, the king of the Hammond B-3 and one of my all time faves, Jimmy Smith was from Norristown too ] .......anyway, very nice!



  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dlew919
    Watched that the other day. It’s excellent. But seems unfinished? As in few if any subtitles. Still great though.


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    Yes, it'd have been nice if they showed the names and credentials of people who were interviewed. I had to hunt them down.

    Actually I just realized that the names are also listed in the description:
    Marcus Miller, Joe Zawinul, Peter Erskine, Dave Carpenter and Paco Seri

  7. #6

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    It's very moving.

    Watching it I have to dial back some of my comments about Josef Zawinul. His affection and respect for Jaco were genuine. You can't fake those things.

    It's strange to have right in the middle gotten a desperate call from my brother, who is in the throes of the same illness Jaco had. He's living in an assisted living facility in Fla.---a place he doesn't like or trust, and neither do I. But he's in crisis and acting out and has no one there. I may have to make a trip. Gonna talk to the assistant director tomorrow and check in w/my bro and see what can be done.

    Bipolar is a serious condition, and easily misunderstood. I used to see Jaco in his last days. He came into the Jazz Cultural Theater barefoot, wanting to play with a pick. People were avoiding him b/c of erratic behavior. And we know how it ended.

    But there's help; hope; and support. If you know someone with bipolar 2---the more serious form---do what you can, even if it's just to listen. Everyone deserves to feel they're cared for and not alone...

  8. #7
    I'm not much of a fusion guy except for some Herbie Hancock and Miles Davis. But the documentary made me want to finally give the Weather Report a serious listen.

  9. #8
    It's interesting, he didn't start playing bass until he was 13-14. He got interested in jazz at the age of 17. He was hired to teach jazz bass at the University of Miami already at the age of 19.

  10. #9

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    My bro's better---thank goodness...

  11. #10

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    Thanks for posting, just watched it. Really well done, didn't focus on his later mental breakdowns which I appreciated. Criticisms: 1) should have been subtitles for the French, but clicking on youtube captions takes care of that 2) should have superimposed players' names the first time they were shown (listing at the end doesn't help) 3) what was the deal with those piano interludes between sections, it really didn't fit 4) just a passing mention of his critical early work with Metheny in BSL and nothing about the Jaco album (would have been nice to see PM interviewed, but he didn't do it in the 2015 documentary either) and zero mention of his work with Joni Mitchell.

  12. #11

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    Right---not perfect (who IS?), but well-intended and very worthwhile to watch. The mental illness was neither shied from nor milked, but tastefully handled.

    (As I mentioned, I had a scare right in the middle with my brother calling, quite confused and frightened. It was a combination of new circumstances and some bad meds they were giving him. I'm quite relieved to say he's way better now. The drugs wore off and he slept well. He has the same illness Jaco had---and it doesn't play.)

    I think of Jaco; Tom Harrell; Bud Powell; Monk and others as pure spirits. Their lives should be viewed not as pitiable, but triumphant and inspirational. Everyone's touched by something---geniuses by something more. Imagine a world without them---a way lesser place...

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    My bro's better---thank goodness...
    That’s great news.


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  14. #13

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    Hope your brother continues to improve joelf. Well acquainted with tribulations of mental illness to the folks that experience it as well as how it impacts family and friends. Psychopharmacology is often hit and miss, with treatments often causing other quite serious problems.

    Apropos to music and other creative endeavors, this does raise an interesting question that many have raised: what if Van Gogh or Jaco or Tesla or (fill in the blank) could have had effective intervention that also severely compromised their abilities? Society is, of course, is richer because of their contributions, but would any of these folks have opted for treatment if they knew in advance that it would severely compromise their creativity? If given a choice, how many would opt for a quiet, content life as a bank clerk or choose to flame out early but make a lasting, important contribution? (I'd choose the former, but I'm not starting from a place of intense, creative genius.)

  15. #14

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    Jaco is great but he was really involved in some terrible music lol. Electric bass was my 1st instrument.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    Jaco is great but he was really involved in some terrible music lol. Electric bass was my 1st instrument.
    I find the videos of their live performances far more engaging than their recorded albums (The Weather Report that is).
    Last edited by Tal_175; 07-20-2021 at 11:03 AM.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    Hope your brother continues to improve joelf. Well acquainted with tribulations of mental illness to the folks that experience it as well as how it impacts family and friends. Psychopharmacology is often hit and miss, with treatments often causing other quite serious problems.

    Apropos to music and other creative endeavors, this does raise an interesting question that many have raised: what if Van Gogh or Jaco or Tesla or (fill in the blank) could have had effective intervention that also severely compromised their abilities? Society is, of course, is richer because of their contributions, but would any of these folks have opted for treatment if they knew in advance that it would severely compromise their creativity? If given a choice, how many would opt for a quiet, content life as a bank clerk or choose to flame out early but make a lasting, important contribution? (I'd choose the former, but I'm not starting from a place of intense, creative genius.)
    As Neil Young sang, It's better to burn out than to fade away...

    Or is it?

    There are all different stripes of mental illness. Some respond effectively to medication and other interventions, some never really do. The corrosive effect on creativity and ambition is certainly compelling...think of what happened with Sly Stone and Peter Green for instance. It's hard and probably impossible to disentangle whether this result is caused by the disease, or the treatments (meds and ECT), or other factors such as recreational drug use. It's just a sad fact.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    As Neil Young sang, It's better to burn out than to fade away...

    Or is it?

    There are all different stripes of mental illness. Some respond effectively to medication and other interventions, some never really do. The corrosive effect on creativity and ambition is certainly compelling...think of what happened with Sly Stone and Peter Green for instance. It's hard and probably impossible to disentangle whether this result is caused by the disease, or the treatments (meds and ECT), or other factors such as recreational drug use. It's just a sad fact.
    The Neil Young statement is fanciful poppycock.

    I would add to that list Monk and Bud. Dimmed for sure.

    OTOH Tom Harrell was stabilized and is very grateful. He's had a long, productive life in music and accepts the side effects as part of the bargain. A switch to Seroquel (which my bro also takes) led to greater focus and productivity than the heavy-duty Stelazine.

    And he has said dismissively of the supposed link of creativity and mental illness: 'First, take the medicine'.

    Different strokes, as Sly would say...

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    Hope your brother continues to improve joelf. Well acquainted with tribulations of mental illness to the folks that experience it as well as how it impacts family and friends. Psychopharmacology is often hit and miss, with treatments often causing other quite serious problems
    Mental illness tends to run in families. It did in mine (or, apologies to Arsenic and Old Lace, it 'practically galloped'). I've no clue as to whether it was nature or nurture. Probably both---but who cares? It's the end result and how to best deal with it that we care about.

    I was not spared either. It took years (I'll be 67 tomorrow!) to learn not to react impulsively in words and deeds. That got me into some hairy situations. I was said to have the milder form of bipolar, but I think that a misdiagnosis. It was the impulsiveness that was the problem.

    I was lucky---VERY lucky: I had teachers believing in and pushing me (though that created pressure too); the ability to make and keep friends; humor; my musical gift---and the very verbal dexterity that could drive people nuts was a great release for me.

    I also think that wisdom and comfort in one's own skin will come if one only hangs in long enough. John Forbes Nash said that he now recognizes the hallucinations for what they are and doesn't pay attention or get drawn in anymore. That could only come with time...

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    nothing about the Jaco album
    Marcus Miller mentioned Jaco's Donna Lee from that album and how young bass players all play DL now.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    The Neil Young statement is fanciful poppycock.

    I would add to that list Monk and Bud. Dimmed for sure.

    OTOH Tom Harrell was stabilized and is very grateful. He's had a long, productive life in music and accepts the side effects as part of the bargain. A switch to Seroquel (which my bro also takes) led to greater focus and productivity than the heavy-duty Stelazine.

    And he has said dismissively of the supposed link of creativity and mental illness: 'First, take the medicine'.

    Different strokes, as Sly would say...
    I haven't heard him interviewed about that song, but I think Neil is being sardonic here or at least rhetorical. He certainly didn't burn out or fade away...he is kind a model for how to mature as a musician, at least in terms of musical work. (Whether he's great at relationships is another matter...)

    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    Mental illness tends to run in families. It did in mine (or, apologies to Arsenic and Old Lace, it 'practically galloped'). I've no clue as to whether it was nature or nurture. Probably both---but who cares? It's the end result and how to best deal with it that we care about.

    I was not spared either. It took years (I'll be 67 tomorrow!) to learn not to react impulsively in words and deeds. That got me into some hairy situations. I was said to have the milder form of bipolar, but I think that a misdiagnosis. It was the impulsiveness that was the problem.

    I was lucky---VERY lucky: I had teachers believing in and pushing me (though that created pressure too); the ability to make and keep friends; humor; my musical gift---and the very verbal dexterity that could drive people nuts was a great release for me.

    I also think that wisdom and comfort in one's own skin will come if one only hangs in long enough. John Forbes Nash said that he now recognizes the hallucinations for what they are and doesn't pay attention or get drawn in anymore. That could only come with time...
    2 things I have learned being in medicine and having family members with mental health problems: a) there is rarely a single specific diagnosis that explains all behavior, i.e., people don't fit into neat categories; and b) there is no one size fits all treatment for a given disorder.

    I find the new research coming out on hallucinogenics (and ECT too) very interesting, though ultimately how and when to use them properly remains to be seen.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    ...I find the new research coming out on hallucinogenics (and ECT too) very interesting, though ultimately how and when to use them properly remains to be seen.
    My dad's demise was hastened by ECT, I'm sure of it. He had what was called 'agitated depression'. When sick his whole body would shake. Mom was sick too. Both were treated with ETC and the early antidepressants. For one thing this is not a thing you want kids to grow up around. For another their buying into 'better living through chemistry' was very unfortunate. Mom was stronger and held together better, but my dad would go to the hospital for a 'cure' and there'd be less of him left each time. He never got his mind back the last go round and succumbed to a bad stroke. He did have high blood pressure, so I'm not saying the 'treatment' was the only culprit---but he was reduced and it was just sad.

    This was a guy who got up at 4 and hung wallpaper (sometimes with Eric Elf, Mark Elf's dad) and was able to give us a middle-class life through it all. And he was NOT a creative type (though his singing and playing musical cast LPs planted the seed of melody in me early). So mental illness doesn't discriminate. I view life as a school, and you only graduate when you shuffle off. But you can get an early diploma if you stop repeating mistakes. To my parents' generation of Jews---progeny of European immigrants---medicine and doctors were God. I understand and don't judge. But I'm glad progress has been made. Me, I believe in the 'talking cure'. It was a big help and now I'm pretty cool mentally. My family's woes were a great teacher of insight and compassion...

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I haven't heard him interviewed about that song, but I think Neil is being sardonic here or at least rhetorical. He certainly didn't burn out or fade away...he is kind a model for how to mature as a musician, at least in terms of musical work. (Whether he's great at relationships is another matter...)

    2 things I have learned being in medicine and having family members with mental health problems: a) there is rarely a single specific diagnosis that explains all behavior, i.e., people don't fit into neat categories; and b) there is no one size fits all treatment for a given disorder.

    I find the new research coming out on hallucinogenics (and ECT too) very interesting, though ultimately how and when to use them properly remains to be seen.
    Yep, very interesting. The list keeps growing. Psilocybin, ketamine, low dose LSD, MDMA. Need to resurrect Alexander Shulgin's work for sure. And now finding that nitrous oxide can be useful for some with treatment resistant depression - no laughing matter!

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    My dad's demise was hastened by ECT, I'm sure of it. He had what was called 'agitated depression'. When sick his whole body would shake. Mom was sick too. Both were treated with ETC and the early antidepressants. For one thing this is not a thing you want kids to grow up around. For another their buying into 'better living through chemistry' was very unfortunate. Mom was stronger and held together better, but my dad would go to the hospital for a 'cure' and there'd be less of him left each time. He never got his mind back the last go round and succumbed to a bad stroke. He did have high blood pressure, so I'm not saying the 'treatment' was the only culprit---but he was reduced and it was just sad.

    This was a guy who got up at 4 and hung wallpaper (sometimes with Eric Elf, Mark Elf's dad) and was able to give us a middle-class life through it all. And he was NOT a creative type (though his singing and playing musical cast LPs planted the seed of melody in me early). So mental illness doesn't discriminate. I view life as a school, and you only graduate when you shuffle off. But you can get an early diploma if you stop repeating mistakes. To my parents' generation of Jews---progeny of European immigrants---medicine and doctors were God. I understand and don't judge. But I'm glad progress has been made. Me, I believe in the 'talking cure'. It was a big help and now I'm pretty cool mentally. My family's woes were a great teacher of insight and compassion...
    Not sure when your father underwent ECT therapy, but it is now way different than earlier One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest "therapy". Now done under anesthesia, with much smaller, very targeted voltages.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    Not sure when your father underwent ECT therapy, but it is now way different than earlier One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest "therapy". Now done under anesthesia, with much smaller, very targeted voltages.
    It was '93 when he had his final illness that led to the stroke. That's the 'modern' era already. He was disoriented and scared in the mental facility. Could hardly speak and didn't know what was going on. They had him in a special chair so he wouldn't fall. I found him lying in bed in that snake pit, Gracie Square Hospital. They totally ignored him when he was stricken. I had to raise a stink and demand a doctor to see him.

    They took him to Lenox Hill Hospital and he died there after spending his last days aphasic; immobile; and fed by a feeding tube in a nursing home. The ECT contributed, I know---watched him become less mentally capable each go round. Once, home after a hospitalization, he asked me to open a milk carton. He just couldn't do it. It was downhill from there...

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    It was '93 when he had his final illness that led to the stroke. That's the 'modern' era already. He was disoriented and scared in the mental facility. Could hardly speak and didn't know what was going on. They had him in a special chair so he wouldn't fall. I found him lying in bed in that snake pit, Gracie Square Hospital. They totally ignored him when he was stricken. I had to raise a stink and demand a doctor to see him.

    They took him to Lenox Hill Hospital and he died there after spending his last days aphasic; immobile; and fed by a feeding tube in a nursing home. The ECT contributed, I know---watched him become less mentally capable each go round. Once, home after a hospitalization, he asked me to open a milk carton. He just couldn't do it. It was downhill from there...
    Sounds like horror movie. Sorry that your father and family had to endure that nightmare.