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Can't count how many times I've read/heard this.
obviously known most as a soloist, but the man knew how to comp...doesn't always come through clearly in the mix but if you listen closely he's usually there, sometimes more noticeably so. one has to remember that when he came up you had to play rhythm, especially in the chitlin circuit, it was a requirement-soloing was a bonus! check out his comping on a tune my organ trio used to play that I've posted before...John Patton's 'Jakey'
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03-18-2021 02:16 AM
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The only time I don't comp is if a piano player is there. I try to stay out of their way. I avoid eye contact. Shades help.
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If by comping we mean improvising ryhthmic phrases, indeed he doesn't seem to do that.
He has a very specific style when playing rhythm, that says a lot about his musical influences. It's very pre-bebop, or old fashioned
, in lack of a better term. He always seems to comp either gospel type, or using the same rhythm throughout the tune. He doesn't favor playing phrases, the way most players had begun doing in his time. I do love the way he comps.
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Did Green play the Chitlin circuit? I may be wrong but, so far as I know, he did not tour in his youth. He grew up with Gospel in St Louis and stayed in the city until he was discovered (playing in a bar) by Lou Donaldson (who is still with us) in 1959. Green was in New York by 1960. He signed to Blue Note in March 1961.
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Comping on guitar in the modern pianistic sense didn’t really kick off until 1960 and ‘the Bridge’
Before then players tended to play rhythm guitar or little rhythmic figures. I suppose Grant was doing it the way he learned.
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that's correct Lr, but Lou was also a mainstay as were countless other 'soul jazz' artists on the circuit in that genre back then even if they were signed to a major label
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i dunno, guys. to me there is not much difference between grant's comping and sonny clark's or baby face's comping. it certainly does not sound old-fashioned of pre-bop to me. he has the sparse piano bag as well as the slightly busier organ bag down like no other guitarist before him. i'd actually put it to you guys that modern comping on the guitar started with grant. who else before him comped like this:
grant's organ bag:
here's the direct comparison between baby face and grant. same comping style. they even play red garland style in unison for lou's solo. which guitarist before did that?
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Oh there you go actually listening to the music again. That’s cheating.
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The idiots who write that are the same that think he played only funk and blues.
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Totally and that Let 'em Roll album is a very favorite of mine!
Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Hi, W,
What many of the younger players on this Forum may not know is that prior to the 70's, most small combo Jazzers got their chops playing in Soul/R@B bands throughout America's inner cities. And, in juxaposition to Rock music that captured the hearts and souls of suburban, middle-class kids with its steady thump thump rhythms, the difference in approach was that in Soul/R@B, comping was not a steady rhythm but interspersed, tastefully, throughout the song and this morphed into their Jazz ventures/personalities. The R@B work of Cornell Dupree is an excellent example of this style of comping. And, most of the older Jazzers didn't study music in universities or on-line programs but on the job "paying their dues." So, stylistically, there's a difference in their playing. Your playing is your voice. It tells "from whence you came." (James Baldwin)
Play live . . . Marinero
Here's Cornell. Check out his comping at 2:30. R.I.P. Brother! M
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one of grants earliest gigs & sessions...with pianist turned organist sam lazar...out of st. louis, they played strip clubs, dives and nightclubs..grant spent some formative time with lazar
which resulted in this 1960 lp cut in chicago...on chess records sub label argo
space flight
cheers
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The more you listen to him, the more you gotta respect him.
There are a lot of more colorful or virtuosic players who didn't do as much for jazz guitar as Grant. 50 years from now I've got to think Grant is going to be up there with the greats in terms of his influence on the music that followed.
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he is already up there. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Definitely! Originally Posted by djg
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He is to us! Originally Posted by djg
It’s hard to know who will be considered an icon in 50 years. So many talented people from the past are virtually forgotten now.
I think the kind of hard bop/soul jazz that Grant specialized in will be one of the important threads in the musical history of jazz guitar.
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Originally Posted by neatomic
Hi, N,
The 60's and 70's were a great time in Chicago for live music-especially on the South and West sides of the city. As a saxer, I played a lot of funky dives, faux nightclubs, "Go-Go" clubs* and yes, strip clubs. I also did a recording session ,as a sub, at the old Chess records building '73/'74? but it wasn't Chess Records, then. So, Grant definitely cut his teeth in R@B/Soul and it shows in his playing. Rather than saying, as some, that he doesn't comp or play according to Jazz rules, we should celebrate his style as transitional as many of us who were cutting our teeth on the job. And, a very interesting aspect of this pathway is that in those funky little clubs playing R@B/Soul, the audiences were very tolerant of long solos and this is where I believe the pathway was wide open for those honing their chops with their eye on Jazz. So, Jazz is a big family with many facets and Grant's music is one of them.
Play live . . . Marinero
* "Go-Go" Clubs were live music venues with Shake Dancers who were scantily-dressed women who danced on stage when the band played. The last one I played was "Big Mikes" on North Wells in Chicago in 1968. One block down was the Hungry Eye where I first heard alto saxophonist Sonny Criss playing in an organ trio. Maybe ,Chicagoan, Jeff Matz remembers. M
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Ah, before my time. Wells was "safe" and yuppie by my playing days.
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Yea, very difficult for us today, to predict, 50 years from today, who will be the 5 or so iconic jazz guitar players. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Grant Green might be one but more so because he was the Blue-Note guitarist; I.e. Blue Note is highly likely to be an iconic jazz record label (if not THE iconic one), and that will shine a light on Green.
But other than Wes and Christian, I wouldn't dare name any others; (yea, even Pass, Kessell, etc... are likely to be mostly forgotten).
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I think Barney Kessel will be remembered, but for his studio work. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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Thank you for sharing that album, I wasn't hip to it. I knew he played with Sam Lazar but I hadn't come across or checked out this album. Listening right now, I dig it. Originally Posted by neatomic
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I think this is pre 330...Grant would have been playing a Strat! Originally Posted by neatomic
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I think it depends on what musical trends are valued in, say, 2070. Joe Pass was extraordinarily important in elevating the profile of the solo jazz guitarist, not to mention his work with many iconic players like Ella and Oscar Peterson. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
Benson might be up there in terms of popularity and moving jazz guitar to the forefront of pop music.
McLaughlin might be valued as a preeminent fusion player.
But those are just guesses. Who knows?
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Charlie C and Wes rise above.
I'd guess Jim Hall is heard well into the future. Although, unlike some others, he isn't known as a composer.
Metheny.
Eddie Van Halen.
Hendrix.
Players who changed guitar.
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that pic of grant playing the strat is indeed from his time with sam lazar...thats bob graf on sax Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
cheers
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