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I played the same festival with her trio in Italy (Tolentino Jazz Fest) a couple of years ago and she was sturdy up there playing with a trio ....delivered it like a seasoned player and the crowd was into it.
Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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12-29-2020 10:53 AM
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Thanks for that info. My questions were to those at this forum that appear to be judging her based on viewing one video, where she happens to play rather aggressively (some would say "busy"). I found that somewhat silly (at best): to judge a musician based on the viewing of a few videos. Originally Posted by WahmBomAh
My wife is from Italy (Bari), and she has a lot of family there. Not too much of a drive north to Tolentino from Bari. Hopefully we can make the 2021 Tolentino Jazz Fest. Typically we go to Bari Italy, using that as a base to visit EU cities, each year, but of course 2020,,,,,,Last edited by jameslovestal; 12-29-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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She sounds great to me. I'm sure she will evolve with time, but I'd cut her (or any young musician trying to build a career as a full-time player) some slack. The days of apprenticeship and steady gigs are long gone. Today there is a very short window for a young player to make enough of a mark to gain enough national (international, in her case) attention to build a sustainable career. She's doing an admirable job.
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If you don't have something nice to say... Don't say it. It's not censorship. It's just good advice. There are lots of threads where I don't have anything constructive to say.
As for Elenora, I really enjoy her playing as well. Glad this thread was made.
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That Ramirez quote is great.
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Criticism is essential to music. It shapes how we understand and respond to musical works. We should be free to voice our opinions about any artist, especially on a forum of this kind. Insisting we say something nice or say nothing at all is a crude attempt to censor judgement. Demanding we hold our tongues because times are bad for young musicians is moral blackmail. I am tired of hearing how we must always ‘support’ the up and coming. It is nothing more than a tactic to shame us into silence.
For the record, Amadeus is an appalling calumny against Joseph II, who was a generous and knowledgeable patron of music, who enjoyed Mozart’s work. Shaffer’s depictions of Mozart and Salieri and equally grotesque.
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1. Originally Posted by Litterick
The Amadeus clip is poking fun.
2. Criticism is not essential to music. We would still have music without it.
3. One is free to voice their opinion.
4. Criticism and opinion is not the same thing. You are still free to critique as well.
5. I often tell everyone on the street my opinion on their smell. It is essential to shape your understanding and response of others. *More jesting.
6. No crude demands are being made of anyone. My suggestion to "hold your tongue", has more to do with fostering a positive community then censorship. Nothing to do with times being tough.
7. I agree, we must not support the up and coming.
8. Finally, this thread is about Elenora, and you failed to address the topic. But that is just my critique of your post. I did however enjoy your spelling, grammar and excellent use of adjectives. No jesting.
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12-30-2020, 07:56 AM #108Dutchbopper Guest
It is with some confusion that I read some of the criticism here. Some posts suggest she still has to mature ... Huh? Elenora sounds pretty well developed to me. She is a serious musician who studied at several conservatories and is not a rookie. I do not get the 'too many notes" thing to begin with. Literally ALL of my favorite players could be accused of that. She has a voice and if you don't like it, do not listen. But suggesting something is missing or should be changed ... That's ok for student and beginner level appraisals here but I do not see the relevance of that for established players. You don't like many notes? Do not listen to Bireli. Or Ulf. Or Martino. It's as easy as that. But criticism? Really?
Here she is on a full set in an organ trio. Skip the first 16 minutes.
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Right. We have excellent critics on this forum, really no short supply in here. Now Eleonora has 10 years to improve, or face a career damage. I'm not sure how she's gonna handle it, it's a tough spot.
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Nice! And she uses double stops! Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
But definitely too busy. It's better if she slowed down and played less notes, (don't make us feel insecure, cmon). Oh, and put on tons of reverb and play mostly rubato ballads, then she will fit in here no problem.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Rubato solo jazz guitar .. The Pinnacle .. so good .. such emotion ..
(That is how I imagine jazz hell .. Satan leads you to your table at an eternal rubato solo jazz guitar concert .. Not a single measure ever locking into a swinging grid .. Not a single chord ever lasting the time that is notated)
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You all would be bitchin’ on Wes Montgomery if he were alive and videos posted. This thread mirrors so so many others here.... demands for free speech that are thinly veiled justifications of self serving negativism. As Sinatra sang... “some people get their kicks stepping on others dreams....that’s life”.
Building on Lobo....Fun from from cartoonist Gary Larson a huge jazz guitar fan...
”Charlie Parker in Hell”
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Definitely .. If the internet had existed back then people would be posting .. He ain't no Eddie Lang .. These modern players cheating with amplification ain't got shit on the old cats etc Originally Posted by jazzkritter
That is the thing .. The live scene had a filter in that people not into the music usually stayed at home.
But here we have people sitting at home just being unhappy .. Wes ain't no Segovia you know .. look at him, didn't even have the skill to learn how to use his fingers properly and instead plays with his thumb like a 5 year old that has picked up a guitar for the first time .. Reprehensible I tell ya!
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John McLaughlin- too busy
Eric Clapton- too slow
Jimi Hendrix- too loud
Wes- not enough fingers
Pat Metheny- not enough swing
Django- too busy and not enough fingers
Guitar players critique - a Starter Pack.
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Less is more! Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOoooooooooooo ooooo Originally Posted by Lobomov
Rubato solo jazz guitar .. The Pinnacle .. so good .. such emotion ..
(That is how I imagine jazz hell .. Satan leads you to your table at an eternal rubato solo jazz guitar concert .. Not a single measure ever locking into a swinging grid .. Not a single chord ever lasting the time that is notated)
I’ll be a good boy
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'If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it' is an old school way of teaching. That's long gone.
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Old school? Are you kidding? The old dudes were horrendously rude lol.... Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Let's not confuse old school teaching with old school practice Originally Posted by christianm77
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Get off my astroturf! Originally Posted by christianm77
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Being rude in person is different than from a keyboard.
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Careful with that cheese grater.
The return of my most important tool
Originally Posted by Lobomov
Rubato solo jazz guitar .. The Pinnacle .. so good .. such emotion ..
(That is how I imagine jazz hell .. Satan leads you to your table at an eternal rubato solo jazz guitar concert .. Not a single measure ever locking into a swinging grid .. Not a single chord ever lasting the time that is notated)
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“A gentleman is someone who never insults another unintentionally.” Originally Posted by Littlemark
- supposedly Oscar Wilde
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Good advice.
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Reminds me of the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Nick Cage goes out, gets drunk and gets beat up. He goes home and his girlfriend say's- did you say something stupid to somebody stupid?
Don't condescend stupid people.
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