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“Technique alone does not the musician make . . . Thus Spoke Zarathrustra . .
"In all human work, the wise look for virtues and fools look for flaws".
Jose Ramirez I
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12-20-2020 01:17 PM
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That’s a good quote. It certainly makes you happier.
to be frank, it can be hard ATM. worth making the effort if you can though.
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Which quote? There are four in the post above yours, Christian.
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
"In all human work, the wise look for virtues and fools look for flaws".
Jose Ramirez I
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Originally Posted by Marinero
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Yea I love the Ramirez quote, it kept my sanity more than once when working for a total moron.
Listening to Ms. Strino made me happy. I liked hearing a fresh approach, not another regurgitation of a copied solo against a backing track. Watching her left hand gave me some ideas to fool with.
I can’t sing though. Nor am I pretty.
What did not make me happy was people beating her up. Darn, open your ears and learn something new instead of closing them and critiquing.
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[QUOTE=BickertRules;1083763]I feel my conversation with Holger may have sidetracked the thread so here’s some more Eleonora Strino - lovely playing. I have a real admiration for young people who are keeping straight-ahead jazz and instrumental guitar music alive.
The comments on her playing are telling in a way...if this was an older male playing I think the comments would have a very different flavor.
I like what she does ..she takes some chances with "rainbow" using some nice (to me) "crunchy" chords...
the use of extended harmony in chord structures and voicing is telling of some intense study and using scale fragments and extended runs to connect harmonic movement
again shows knowledge of harmonic/melodic relations
some of the fingering of chords takes quite a while to be played with "ease" ..a student of the (Smith..Van Epps..Greene and others school perhaps)
and to project into the future is silly..she may take up piano or start a "king crimson" flavored band for all we know
the term "jazz guitar" is not a accurate description of what that means today..of course there is a tradition coming from a period of time when the "standard" was the main
form of material "jazz" musicians used..and then many musicians wrote their own compositions and the music changed alot..Monk..Coltrane..Davis and many others..took it to another level and todays "jazz" would not be recognized by many as the music they were used to hearing.
I began my "jazz" playing with standards..and that is a bedrock of harmonic movement and melodic exploration for any jazz musician -my take-
today the use of computers/syths/and synthetic sounds/recording and engineering advances are taking "music" to places not even dreamed of years ago
people grow and their talents grow with them..and Strino will also
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"Anyways that is the second time you've ignored me asking when we are going to see you play, so we can be inspired by someone with a deep understanding of jazz." Lobomov
O.K., Lobo,
Although I've answered this question in another post and your posit is a classic red herring in regards to this discussion, I'll explain it once again. I didn't join JGF to have my music critiqued or to promote a prospective music career although I do enjoy some of the fine musicians who have posted their work here. I did join, however, to have conversations about music with musicians that would not be possible where I live today. In the last 55 years, I have had untold feedback to my professional performances and, fortunately, when full-time gigs disappeared for working musicians in the late 70's, I switched gears from music into a very successful career in business until I ,recently, retired. Today, I am looking forward to performing solo , pre-Covid, as soon as this this madness is over. So, Lobo, to relieve your obvious and persistent angst, perhaps you should start a new internet site for musicians where only those who perform online can comment about music with the predictable result being that only you and your ilk could could deem which comments are valid/invalid based on your musical sensibilities/prejudices. I will, hopefully soon, be content to play 1-2 gigs a week once Covid is over and continue to post my thoughts/ideas on Jazz Guitar Forum for discussion. And, perhaps one day I'll be fortunate to have you in my audience . . . sipping a Stolichnaya Elite Vodka Martini or, perhaps, a glass of Chateau La Lagune Haut Medoc but, on second thought, I don't think that's your style. I hope this answers your question.
Play live . . . not in your bedroom . . . Marinero
P.S. In all sincerity, I wish you all the best in your professional, paid live performances.
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Originally Posted by Marinero
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Originally Posted by djg
All those influences you mention, IMO, are more less irrelevant. Maybe it makes for some credibility in some obscure niche, like this forum, mentioning all those names, but otherwise it can only take from her tallent.
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Originally Posted by Marinero
Eleanora is a JAZZ musician. She is not playing written out arrangements, and is improvising almost constantly. She is creating music spontaneously, so it's obviously not been rehearsed for years like Bulerias' arrangements have been.
It's like comparing John Williams playing Walton's Bagatelles, and Barney Kessel playing Satin Doll.
Williams has been playing the Walton piece the same way, note for note for years in his own special interpretation of the piece.
Barney Kessel plays Satin Doll differently every time, and most of it is improvised.
Is it as technically as polished and worked out as William's playing of the Walton? No, for obvious reasons.
They're two different styles with two different performance aesthetics.
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I just don't see what's to be gained by criticizing this young lady.
Is she any busier than Barney or Tal when she plays chord passages in her solos, and if so, so what?
Expecting her to be a fully formed mature musician at that age is ludicrous. I'll say this, I like her more than a lot of the young folks on the scene. Very unpretentious playing imo. She can only get better and better. We should all have been that good at that age let alone now and I'm guessing some of the critics here (well, at least one) couldn't carry her guitar case.
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Originally Posted by Marinero
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She's very good.
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Originally Posted by sgcim
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I can only hope that our talented and lovely guitar playing and singing Napoletana never sees this thread about her and discovers how petty and back-biting some of her “fellow” jazz guitarists can be.
Last edited by BickertRules; 12-21-2020 at 07:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by BickertRules
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by Marinero
She has a sound and other things going for her. Why be a hater?
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Pretend Elenora is a forum member and say something nice. I doubt she needs our approval but I like her sound.
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Originally Posted by fep
Last edited by Stevebol; 12-21-2020 at 03:59 PM.
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"She has a sound and other things going for her. Why be a hater?" Stevebol
Hi, S,
I don't hate her at all. She is a very accomplished technician(see post #6) but I don't like her musical personality/style(see post #18). Simple. So, why is it when someone disagrees with "The Herd" they are castigated? Should we not be free on an open forum to comment on the topic at hand? Or, should we all buy into the "Group Think" for guaranteed safety and protection of the Herd?
There have been few musical phenoms/savants in the history of Music: Mozart, Giuliani, Chopin, Paganini . . . or in Jazz: Joey Alexander, Chet Baker, Miles Davis, Birelli LaGrene, Wynton Marsalis, etc. but she's not in that class of musicians. Musical greatness is not just about technique . . . far from it and that is why this black magic we call music is such an illusive mistress. So, no animus intended for her . . . just a personal reply about my musical tastes. Isn't that why the OP posted her playing for open discussion? Perhaps, I'm wrong.
Play live . . . Marinero
Last edited by Marinero; 12-21-2020 at 04:34 PM. Reason: addition
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Originally Posted by Marinero
if so I'm guessing your music library is quite small and your taste very limited. you don't have to like her, but give her some time to mature and come back later w/your opinions.
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Originally Posted by Marinero
Young musicians forget to breath but she'll work it out. I'd like to hear her just sing. Perform like Benson or BB King.
If I saw her in a club I'd definitely stick around for at least a couple sets. She's got 'it' whatever it is. I'd be more interested in her vocals than guitar playing but she's a very good guitar player too.
That's my 2 cents from the bleachers in the twilight zone..
RIP Nick Gravenites
Today, 05:48 PM in The Players