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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    How many songs have you heard Strino play? Have you seen her live?
    I played the same festival with her trio in Italy (Tolentino Jazz Fest) a couple of years ago and she was sturdy up there playing with a trio ....delivered it like a seasoned player and the crowd was into it.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by WahmBomAh
    I played the same festival with her trio in Italy (Tolentino Jazz Fest) a couple of years ago and she was sturdy up there playing with a trio ....delivered it like a seasoned player and the crowd was into it.
    Thanks for that info. My questions were to those at this forum that appear to be judging her based on viewing one video, where she happens to play rather aggressively (some would say "busy"). I found that somewhat silly (at best): to judge a musician based on the viewing of a few videos.

    My wife is from Italy (Bari), and she has a lot of family there. Not too much of a drive north to Tolentino from Bari. Hopefully we can make the 2021 Tolentino Jazz Fest. Typically we go to Bari Italy, using that as a base to visit EU cities, each year, but of course 2020,,,,,,
    Last edited by jameslovestal; 12-29-2020 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #103

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    She sounds great to me. I'm sure she will evolve with time, but I'd cut her (or any young musician trying to build a career as a full-time player) some slack. The days of apprenticeship and steady gigs are long gone. Today there is a very short window for a young player to make enough of a mark to gain enough national (international, in her case) attention to build a sustainable career. She's doing an admirable job.

  5. #104

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    If you don't have something nice to say... Don't say it. It's not censorship. It's just good advice. There are lots of threads where I don't have anything constructive to say.

    As for Elenora, I really enjoy her playing as well. Glad this thread was made.

  6. #105

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    That Ramirez quote is great.

  7. #106

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    Criticism is essential to music. It shapes how we understand and respond to musical works. We should be free to voice our opinions about any artist, especially on a forum of this kind. Insisting we say something nice or say nothing at all is a crude attempt to censor judgement. Demanding we hold our tongues because times are bad for young musicians is moral blackmail. I am tired of hearing how we must always ‘support’ the up and coming. It is nothing more than a tactic to shame us into silence.

    For the record, Amadeus is an appalling calumny against Joseph II, who was a generous and knowledgeable patron of music, who enjoyed Mozart’s work. Shaffer’s depictions of Mozart and Salieri and equally grotesque.

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Criticism is essential to music. It shapes how we understand and respond to musical works. We should be free to voice our opinions about any artist, especially on a forum of this kind. Insisting we say something nice or say nothing at all is a crude attempt to censor judgement. Demanding we hold our tongues because times are bad for young musicians is moral blackmail. I am tired of hearing how we must always ‘support’ the up and coming. It is nothing more than a tactic to shame us into silence.

    For the record, Amadeus is an appalling calumny against Joseph II, who was a generous and knowledgeable patron of music, who enjoyed Mozart’s work. Shaffer’s depictions of Mozart and Salieri and equally grotesque.
    1. The Amadeus clip is poking fun.
    2. Criticism is not essential to music. We would still have music without it.
    3. One is free to voice their opinion.
    4. Criticism and opinion is not the same thing. You are still free to critique as well.
    5. I often tell everyone on the street my opinion on their smell. It is essential to shape your understanding and response of others. *More jesting.
    6. No crude demands are being made of anyone. My suggestion to "hold your tongue", has more to do with fostering a positive community then censorship. Nothing to do with times being tough.
    7. I agree, we must not support the up and coming.

    8. Finally, this thread is about Elenora, and you failed to address the topic. But that is just my critique of your post. I did however enjoy your spelling, grammar and excellent use of adjectives. No jesting.

  9. #108

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    It is with some confusion that I read some of the criticism here. Some posts suggest she still has to mature ... Huh? Elenora sounds pretty well developed to me. She is a serious musician who studied at several conservatories and is not a rookie. I do not get the 'too many notes" thing to begin with. Literally ALL of my favorite players could be accused of that. She has a voice and if you don't like it, do not listen. But suggesting something is missing or should be changed ... That's ok for student and beginner level appraisals here but I do not see the relevance of that for established players. You don't like many notes? Do not listen to Bireli. Or Ulf. Or Martino. It's as easy as that. But criticism? Really?

    Here she is on a full set in an organ trio. Skip the first 16 minutes.


  10. #109

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    Right. We have excellent critics on this forum, really no short supply in here. Now Eleonora has 10 years to improve, or face a career damage. I'm not sure how she's gonna handle it, it's a tough spot.

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    It is with some confusion that I read some of the criticism here. Some posts suggest she still has to mature ... Huh? Elenora sounds pretty well developed to me. She is a serious musician who studied at several conservatories and is not a rookie. I do not get the 'too many notes" thing to begin with. Literally ALL of my favorite players could be accused of that. She has a voice and if you don't like it, do not listen. But suggesting something is missing or should be changed ... That's ok for student and beginner level appraisals here but I do not see the relevance of that for established players. You don't like many notes? Do not listen to Bireli. Or Ulf. Or Martino. It's as easy as that. But criticism? Really?

    Here she is on a full set in an organ trio. Skip the first 16 minutes.

    Nice! And she uses double stops!

    But definitely too busy. It's better if she slowed down and played less notes, (don't make us feel insecure, cmon). Oh, and put on tons of reverb and play mostly rubato ballads, then she will fit in here no problem.

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    rubato

    Rubato solo jazz guitar .. The Pinnacle .. so good .. such emotion ..




    (That is how I imagine jazz hell .. Satan leads you to your table at an eternal rubato solo jazz guitar concert .. Not a single measure ever locking into a swinging grid .. Not a single chord ever lasting the time that is notated)

  13. #112

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    You all would be bitchin’ on Wes Montgomery if he were alive and videos posted. This thread mirrors so so many others here.... demands for free speech that are thinly veiled justifications of self serving negativism. As Sinatra sang... “some people get their kicks stepping on others dreams....that’s life”.

    Building on Lobo....Fun from from cartoonist Gary Larson a huge jazz guitar fan...

    ”Charlie Parker in Hell”

    elonora strino-448ae98e-5864-4433-8d4d-a4cfda1ac51e-jpeg

  14. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    You all would be bitchin’ on Wes Montgomery if he were alive and videos posted.
    Definitely .. If the internet had existed back then people would be posting .. He ain't no Eddie Lang .. These modern players cheating with amplification ain't got shit on the old cats etc


    That is the thing .. The live scene had a filter in that people not into the music usually stayed at home.


    But here we have people sitting at home just being unhappy .. Wes ain't no Segovia you know .. look at him, didn't even have the skill to learn how to use his fingers properly and instead plays with his thumb like a 5 year old that has picked up a guitar for the first time .. Reprehensible I tell ya!

  15. #114

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    John McLaughlin- too busy
    Eric Clapton- too slow
    Jimi Hendrix- too loud
    Wes- not enough fingers
    Pat Metheny- not enough swing
    Django- too busy and not enough fingers


    Guitar players critique - a Starter Pack.

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Django
    Less is more!

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Rubato solo jazz guitar .. The Pinnacle .. so good .. such emotion ..




    (That is how I imagine jazz hell .. Satan leads you to your table at an eternal rubato solo jazz guitar concert .. Not a single measure ever locking into a swinging grid .. Not a single chord ever lasting the time that is notated)
    nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOoooooooooooo ooooo

    I’ll be a good boy

  18. #117

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    'If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it' is an old school way of teaching. That's long gone.

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    'If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it' is an old school way of teaching. That's long gone.
    Old school? Are you kidding? The old dudes were horrendously rude lol....

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Old school? Are you kidding? The old dudes were horrendously rude lol....
    Let's not confuse old school teaching with old school practice

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Old school? Are you kidding? The old dudes were horrendously rude lol....
    Get off my astroturf!

  22. #121

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    Being rude in person is different than from a keyboard.

  23. #122

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    Careful with that cheese grater.

    The return of my most important tool

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Rubato solo jazz guitar .. The Pinnacle .. so good .. such emotion ..




    (That is how I imagine jazz hell .. Satan leads you to your table at an eternal rubato solo jazz guitar concert .. Not a single measure ever locking into a swinging grid .. Not a single chord ever lasting the time that is notated)

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark
    Being rude in person is different than from a keyboard.
    “A gentleman is someone who never insults another unintentionally.”
    - supposedly Oscar Wilde

  25. #124

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    Good advice.

  26. #125

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    Reminds me of the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Nick Cage goes out, gets drunk and gets beat up. He goes home and his girlfriend say's- did you say something stupid to somebody stupid?
    Don't condescend stupid people.

  27. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Reminds me of the movie Leaving Las Vegas. Nick Cage goes out, gets drunk and gets beat up. He goes home and his girlfriend say's- did you say something stupid to somebody stupid?
    Don't condescend stupid people.
    Maybe the saddest movie ever made. But I love it

  28. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark

    8. Finally, this thread is about Elenora, and you failed to address the topic.
    I am sure this thread would be very different if the subject were not an attractive young woman.

  29. #128

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    On topic, off topic, on topic. No worries.

  30. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Maybe the saddest movie ever made. But I love it
    In the movie, Nick Cage lost his mind on the strip. Happens all the time. To locals, the strip might as well be Mars.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 12-31-2020 at 03:03 AM.

  31. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    In the movie, Nick Cage lost his mind on the strip. Happens all the time. To locals, the strip might as well be Mars.
    Nah, he lost his mind way before that. He came there already with the goal to end his life, remember?

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Nah, he lost his mind way before that. He came there already with the goal to end his life, remember?
    I'm going to watch it again. 1996 is ancient history here.

  33. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    In the movie, Nick Cage lost his mind on the strip. Happens all the time. To locals, the strip might as well be Mars.
    Oh just realized that I had Leaving Las Vegas confused with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

  34. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I am sure this thread would be very different if the subject were not an attractive young woman.
    It's possible.

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I am sure this thread would be very different if the subject were not an attractive young woman.
    Different in what way? E.g. people wouldn't be pushing the point of "don't be critical" if it was a guy?

    Isn't it more likely, as you stated, that some feel the need to be overly protective of the up-and-coming?

    Anyhow, I do agree that being critical is part of such chat forums. There is of course nothing wrong in doing so and the overall "community" should welcome all intelligently expressed opinions.

    All I ask is that users demonstrate some decorum; E.g. if someone has just died and someone creates a thread about that, I wouldn't post anything negative about that person in that thread. Make some positive comments and not only negative ones,, etc.

    We should all feel free to carry-on!

  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    It is with some confusion that I read some of the criticism here.....
    You and me both!!

    That's not her scatting Clifford's solo with you on your Blog is it? We had a conversation about that at some point, and I think you said she was Italian. Just wondering how many beautiful, young and talented jazz singers that country is producing these days.... :)

  37. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Nah, he lost his mind way before that. He came there already with the goal to end his life, remember?
    I watched it last night. Suicidal or not, he just wanted to have a real conversation with someone. So did she. Your options are limited here to say the least. For small talk I go to a casino and gamble. Talk to the old ladies. You better know how to gamble or that will get real expensive. Dating is near impossible. For me it would probably have to be younger waitresses. Then you have to worry about them getting in trouble or fired for flirting.
    You have to be sneaky.
    A couple years ago I asked a waitress about work. I told her I would go online. I did and I got a job somewhere else. She started a rumor that I was looking for a job where she works. Now the waitresses there are suspicious of me. I was multi-tasking. Gambling, job hunting and hitting on her. That's the only time I've ever talked to a cocktail waitress.
    Maybe she likes me but there's no fool like an old fool.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 12-31-2020 at 02:39 PM.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Oh just realized that I had Leaving Las Vegas confused with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
    Fear and Loathing sucked. I read that in high school. Leaving Las Vegas was good. Atlantic City was very good. Casino is overrated. It's romantic gangster BS.
    People who run casinos are low lifes. All of them.

  39. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    You and me both!!

    That's not her scatting Clifford's solo with you on your Blog is it? We had a conversation about that at some point, and I think you said she was Italian. Just wondering how many beautiful, young and talented jazz singers that country is producing these days....
    That was Giovanna Magro, not Elonora Strino. She's Italian too yes.

    DB


  40. #139
    The Jazz Hell joke I first heard is where Jaco comes out and Satan counts off Close To You by the The Carpenters!

  41. #140
    As far as criticizing really good players? Well everyone has an opinion I guess. Those of us who have put their whole life and being into being a serious musical artist would probably say something like " well consider the source" about the super negativity mainly just because she is female as far as I can see. Red Volkhart who is quite a smart pro-picker in my book says It Doesnt Cost A Nickel To Be Nice isnt pro jazz hard enough anyway? The more high quality artists the better in my book male or female would you know in a blindfold test?

  42. #141

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    Heck of a lot easier to criticize than spend a couple hours a day for years trying to master jazz or whatever form of music.

    Come on 2021?

  43. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve burchfield
    As far as criticizing really good players? Well everyone has an opinion I guess. Those of us who have put their whole life and being into being a serious musical artist would probably say something like " well consider the source" about the super negativity mainly just because she is female as far as I can see. Red Volkhart who is quite a smart pro-picker in my book says It Doesnt Cost A Nickel To Be Nice isnt pro jazz hard enough anyway? The more high quality artists the better in my book male or female would you know in a blindfold test?
    Uh, the blindfold test: Note that for centuries when there were tryouts for an opening in an orchestra, the judges (99% of the time males) could see the performer. Women were almost never selected. About 10 - 15 years ago (maybe more but still fairly recent), some enlighten orchestra directors decided to have blind tryouts; the judges only heard them play but couldn't see them or know their names. Guess what happened the same set of judges started selecting women for openings at a much, much higher level. When a few of the judges, who had never selected a women before were told, they got angry claiming they weren't biased. A few decided to retire. Good riddance.

    We all have some degree of unconscious bias. If I was a judge, where seeing the performer wasn't necessary (music, cooking, writing, etc...), I would want to know as little as possible about the contenders so that I judge each one based only on their work.

  44. #143

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    Posted today .. I think I kinda like it ... Usually not fan of floaty solo jazz guitar, but the rubato isn't not deafening


  45. #144

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    I'm glad I checked out this thread, albeit a bit late; Eleonora is an excellent guitarist and poster Stevebol here is a damn genius with words. Talk about flow of consciousness...