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That's what I see. EVH was one that burned his own candle and realized that the flame had some beauty to it. He said that although in his early days he was a Clapton freak, he really never listened to anyone else's music. He didn't need to do that for influence, or inspiration, to get what he wanted. I think the question for me is if his work had much depth beyond what some people recognize as their favorite VH songs. Then again he went pretty deep with what was his so maybe it isn't disappointing that he just stuck with it.
Originally Posted by christianm77
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10-07-2020 12:29 PM
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Back in high school being huge fans we went to see Black Sabbath at Madison Square Garden (8/27/78). The openers were the new kids on the block Van Halen and they ripped the roof off the place. RIP EVH
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I wouldn't say there was NOBODY before EVH... Originally Posted by AndyV
There were Hendrix, Page, Beck, Alvin Lee, Ritchie Blackmore, John McLaughlin, Al Dimeola and a number of others who could shred a guitar or distort the sound dramatically.
There were tinkerers like Les Paul and even Frank Zappa.
There were guitar showboats like T Bone Walker and Jimi.
Admittedly, to do all these in the context of a best-selling pop (not prog or metal) band was unusual. I think the humor and rock and roll attitude of the band made them stand out among the dregs of disco and the emergence of the minimalist punk/new wave sound.
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Van Halen grew up in my neck of the woods. I was about 3 years younger... the band played at my high school in November of 1975. During my high school years they played at highschool parties in the town I grew up in.
One thing they had that is similar to the jazz culture, they played all the time and everywhere they could. I don't remember any band playing as often as they did during my high school days. They built a following before they released their first album.
And even back then Eddie already had that Eddie style/identity as a guitar player (and that certainly was before any Holdsworth influence). Legato... yeah I suppose, bit he picked an awful lot of his stuff and we were pretty much amazed by his technique including his picking.
Not great recording quality, it was a high school in the 70s...
Last edited by fep; 10-07-2020 at 05:36 PM.
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in the history of rock guitar, there is such a thing as 'pre-Van Halen' and 'post-Van Halen." He was that influential. Even though I mostly listen to jazz and classical nowadays, whenever I hear early VH, it gets me riled up! I wanna throw up the horns and play air guitar
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No-one like Eddie? Sure... Again it's hard for me to quite understand how pivotal he is as someone who came a bit later.
By that time those loud '80s superstrats were on special offer. Nuno was the last of that breed (perhaps the last shredding popstar guitar player? Playing with Rihanna these days of course)
But I watch stuff like the Old Grey Whistle test, and it's clear right away what a long shadow Clapton cast. Most players sound like copies of him TBH.
Every so often you hear a Fripp, a Holdsworth, a Gary Moore (tearing it up in the 70s), Steve Hackett (the tapping pioneer before Eddie) or a Blackmore and so on, but most of the lesser known players are so standard in their approach, and you can't say they are bad players, far from it... just very much of the mould.
So yeah, I can appreciate it. It's not like the prog virtuosos were putting out tight pop rock singles like Van Halen were...
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I hear what you mean.... Originally Posted by fep
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I saw Steve Hackett last year and he is still evolving as a player, building on his foundations, really great tone. That old gold top Les Paul has that real PAF magic. A very entertaining evening.
Eddie was great, a player who found his own voice and always expressed it. Just what jazz should be. Criticizing him seems as silly as asking Van Gogh to paint like Rembrandt. Use of the sonic canvas should be a personal thing, Eddie's joy in music connected to all who came see him and his personal expression had a wide appeal because of it. Everybody needs to rock sometimes....
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Will never forget the first time I put Van Halen I on the turntable. It was like the whole hifi system was going to explode. The sounds were like they were from out of space. Where did that come from! Good time exciting fun music from start to finish.
They were going to come to Australia so many times, even just a few years ago, alas it never happened (or not that I am aware of). They even asked an Australian, Jimmy Barnes to replace Diamond Dave and Eddie once referenced Australia's Ian Moss as one of his favourites.
Hope there are lots of M+M's (and the right colour) for you Ed where ever you are.
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Oh Hackett is shredding it these days. It’s great to see a player so engaged in lifelong development, very inspiring. Not to disparage his unique, highly musical and very creative work with Genesis, but his technique seems cleaner now, his timing more precise and his tone is great as you say. I notice he also does a lot of whammy bar stuff now... I think he took in some Eddie influence? Originally Posted by Cavalier
Les Paul with a Floyd Rose....
Here Hackett pays tribute to EVH
Eddie Van Halen took the guitar to a whole new level, says Genesis guitarist - Evening Express
the article (not Steve) seems to suggest that Eddie said he was influenced by Hackett in the tapping thing? I always thought that he came up with it independently, perhaps others will know more.
It’s interesting to compare the way they used it though. EVH is obviously right in your face with it, using as a real flashy solo technique, while Steve used it almost as a textural thing, blending or dialoguing with the keyboard (is Tony Banks not Mr Arpeggio?) So probably a lot of people didn’t even realise that was guitar playing lol.
And it got poo-poo’d by Anton but the Debussy influence; Eddie loved Debussy. You can hear some of that swirl in the synth breakdown of Jump for instance. Tapping allows you to put that texture on guitar.
I think a few players aside from Steve like Zappa and Adrian Belew were doing it too, before they heard EVH, but obviously the technique will be forever associated with Eddie and he took it much further.
By the way here is Eruption on piano
Anyway sorry don’t mean to derail....Last edited by christianm77; 10-08-2020 at 05:04 AM.
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Another thing that doesn’t get talked about too much is Eddies sonic awareness.
one of the things that makes Eruption so interesting to listen to is the way he uses effects to make the guitar sound more unearthly.
The Brown Sound is famous, but I’m particularly taken with the way the Phase 90 slowly sweeps across the fast arpeggio section which creates more definition and musical interest.
So if you forgive the digression, this reminds me of the way EDM producers would use a slow filter sweep on arpeggiated chords in 90’s electronic dance music. Especially Goa Trance and similar things that I spent my uni years getting mashed to.
Anyway, if you want to look to Eddie’s direct influence on EDM we must of course talk about Daft Punk.
To this day I don’t know if this is an actual guitar part at around 1:00. It is a challenging stretchy tapping lick; also it is relatively slow which makes it harder still. The solo on Digital Love is sort of bionic Eddie. It seems to be half real guitar with tapping licks and half synth stuff that is really very difficult to play on a real guitar. But that hasn’t stopped the kids from nailing it on YouTube lol.
So yeah, it shows how Eddie’s influence is all over... not just where you would expect it.Last edited by christianm77; 10-08-2020 at 05:04 AM.
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I wish docbop still posted here. He did a longish piece once on the equipment Eddie used early on---the amps, the wiring, the experimentation that went into it. It was interesting.
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This interview has Eddie talking about his early experiments with amps (mostly).
Eddie Van Halen: Early Guitar Gear, Tone, EVH and more - The Hub
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As the OP I'll just say what every one here has said. Eddie was a brilliant guitar player. I won't compare him favorably over Hendrix or anyone. It's a different thing. I've seen both live and I'll take Hendrix any day. But it's one person's opinion. Many are great there is no "the greatest" ( Except for Jimi...just joking)
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I thought Steve Hackett brought so much to Genesis. A great artist. Originally Posted by christianm77
Re' the article above I am surprised but heartened by the fact that Valerie Bertinelli was with him when he passed, along with Eddie's current wife. That's not something you hear about often.
I also agree with the classical influences. I hear a lot of counterpoint in Eddie's playing, such as eruption. I know he started on piano, though I have read that he couldn't read music. Hard to believe that, if he really got far into piano, but he claims he had a good ear and watched his instructors fingers.
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It is all matter of what you look for in music, and what you want to take from it as a guitar player. Funny, 20 years ago I would agree with what you said, but now I don't see it this way. I can't really listen to Hendrix music anymore, because it sounds too chaotic and a bit disorganize as a BAND. There is pearls in Jimi's playing of course, but it's like I have to do the work of separating it from the chaos. Not so with VH. Eddie was much tighter fit as a band guitarist, more organized. I especially like his work with Sammy Hagar (sacrilegious I know), album like 5150. The riffs, the arrangements, the sound! Originally Posted by jaco
But OTOH, if you value improvisation and spontaneity above all, Jimi is your man of course. Nobody could jam like him in rock history.
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This is a tight, catchy song. Eddie's rhythm is so tight and fitting. He doesn't overplay. And that sound is killer.
The drums and bass are good too. It's a very full sound for so few parts.
I'm with Hep---this was a good band.
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I think EVH always had a knack for crispiness with his rhythm playing. I would say that is one of his signature moves along with the tapping, harmonics, etc. It was really effective IMHO for making the guitar a central piece in his songs.
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I like his rhythm playing (both chords and riffs) better than I like his soloing. I admire his technical facility--esp the way he never sounds stiff, it all flows--but I never wanted to play any of his solos or in any way like him. But I would like to write a song as cool as "Unchained". Originally Posted by lammie200
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Oh yeah those rhythm parts just pop.
He did so you should only work on lead once you'd mastered rhythm... but didn't he play a little drums? Everything helps...
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Interesting, guitar panned 100% left (with just a little reverb or mic bleed coming in the right). And then later, lead/solo guitar panned 100% right. I wouldn't have thought to pan that extreme. Very clean sounding mix given the super high gain mix, in no small part to the way he plays those punchy rhythms leaving space. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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I haven't listened to whole VH albums in years ,here's one tune I totally forgot about:
VH did some fusion!
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Goes a bit outside at 2:35
Tapped harmonics are very cool.
This is super prog haha
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Shaun Baxter's interview with EVH that I referenced elsewhere can be found here
Shaun Baxter | Facebook
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Yes, I think he played drums before brother Alex did. They both played piano. According to legend, Alex was playing guitar first, but when he mastered the drum part for "Wipe Out", Eddie switched to guitar and Alex stuck with the drums. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Cool tribute from Vai:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m..._u0aRkuvkQ0He8
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Their first band The Broken Combs with Eddie on piano and Alex on sax in about 1964
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"I'm tellin' ya, man, it's all a coupla beers and wingin' it." Wings of angels, maybe. Originally Posted by christianm77
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OK, that is actually just adorable. Originally Posted by Zephyr690
Their first band The Broken Combs with Eddie on piano and Alex on sax in about 1964
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The band has not aged well for me. Cringey, sexist lyrics are hard to listen to these days. I remember how psyched I was to hear the first album. I loved how You Really Got Me segued into Eruption. Because of Eddie I was actually a better tapper than a picker when I first started playing because I would tap all the time and not put enough effort into getting my picking together. He was inspiring, to say the least. Originally Posted by jaco
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Nice read. Frank and Eddie and Steve jamming together? Where is the tape of that??? Originally Posted by starjasmine
(Though TBH when great rock players jam together, it’s rarely revelatory, cause they each have their own thing, and without the structure of a complex well-thought-out song it usually devolves into wankery. Clapton’s first acoustic jams with Duane might be an exception, mainly cause they were playing the blues and Clapton can sing. Clapton’s jams with George Harrison are boring to me. Maybe there are some other impromptu rock jams that I don’t know about but should listen to.)
It’s hard to know where Frank was coming from, given his history of extreme sardonic humor. Dr. Sardonicus...
But one guesses that he secretly admires at least some of the people he skewers/makes fun of...Bob Dylan...Eddie...David Bowie..Peter Frampton...
I doubt he liked Jerry Falwell or Jesse Jackson much though.
Anyway, I digress. In retrospect it’s a little strange that EVH was so influential for about a decade, then became *almost* invisible. Maybe that’s an appropriate reaction to great success and fame. Lot’s of other people have done it. Some like Elvis go the other route...is it better to burn out or to fade away? Still trying to figure that one out.
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BTW, speaking of FZ and Eddie, I am now recalling that Zappa did a bit of tapping...the solo in Inca Roads comes to mind...I think there were also some songs on Shut Up and Play Your Guitar that featured tapping.
Frank did admit that Eddie took the technique to a different level. That’s why Frank hired Vai, cause he wanted someone who could “play the stuff that I can’t play.”
Frank and Eddie were a lot alike it seems to me. Frank was an inveterate tinkerer with his guitars. Read about his Gibson LP sometime. “A Stratocaster with a whammy bar”...I mean Joe’s Garage is more the story of EVH than Frank in terms of record contracts and commercial success...
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I mean, from the first album(1978) till at least about 1995 he was very much visible. You might not like Sammy Hagar era, but I and many people love it. So a bit more than a decade then? Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Also, for me VH is the first American real ROCK band. Everything else before wasn't real rock, only British bands were rocking at that time. So basically their influence never stopped since then. That's how I look at it anyway.
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Super! It just hit me what makes EVH really stand out... His syncopation! Nobody in rock wrote more syncopated riffs than Eddie. And it feels very organic too, it just the way he felt rhythm. That's why it always swings. And not just riffs, his leads too, the phrasing is insane. Nothing is ever straightforward. Originally Posted by Dave70
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OK...when you get old, time gets compressed, so 10 years give or take 7... Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I think their last big hit was Right Now, though, in ‘91. More time in the spotlight than the Beatles, but less than The Rolling Stones...
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Album 'Balance'(1995) reached n1 on Billboard, and by 2004 became triple platinum. I had it, it's one of my favorites, highly recommended! Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Well, the Stones' last hit was in '89 ("Rock and A Hard Place") yet they remain visible. Being a good live act seems to matter more in the long run: Allman Bros, Grateful Dead, the Stones, AC/DC... Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
One can be in the spotlight without having a steady stream of hit singles.
And Eddie had a spotlight of his own as a guitar player and designer of gear (guitars, amp heads, combos, and cabinets).
It will be interesting to see how much of his music comes out posthumously. He had his own studio and recorded a lot. No telling what all there is.
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Combined with a great rock rhythm section. The combination of Eddie, Alex and Michael was really quite outstanding. They did a great job of filling in space without getting on each other's toes. I will admit that I didn't like Wolfgang's bass playing as much. Eddie and Alex in particular seemed very locked in; if Eddie wandered a bit out of time, Alex caught it and brought it back. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Eddie had some serious struggles that were catching up to him around that mid-1990s period where he became "almost invisible". Tom Petty coincidentally was going through a very dark time during those same years. Their early career arcs tracked pretty closely actually. Neither ended up living in an RV like Sly Stone, but neither were "fading away" in a healthy way to deal with their fame. I'm not judging either--I can't imagine any situation more personality-warping than being a brilliant rock star in that era. Its just amazing their weren't more early "27-club" deaths than there were. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Ted Templeman said that lots of VH were one takes. Hard to doubt that considering:
Interesting comparison with Townsend and “Who Are You.” His guitar isn’t the song the same way that EVH’s was in these examples IMHO.
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There's before Eddie, and after Eddie, in rock guitar. I'm not a big fan of his, but his impact was huge, whether you liked him or not.
What I dug was his melodicism, when he wasn't going warp-speed, and the vocal harmonies the band could put together.
My favorite song from him doesn't have a guitar solo at all, unless you count the sorta cheesy intro:
He had a bluesy sort of shred that was friendly to the ear, and could write a good tune too.
The comments above about his groove are spot-on, too. He had a great sense of pocket and knew how to lay into it.
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The brotha knew how to throw down a tune. Another simple favorite from that band for me is "Dance the Night Away". The cha-cha beat about steals the show until the vocal harmonies kick in, and nowhere is EVH crapping all over it with wanking, he just plays for the song. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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BTW, not to derail the thread, but listened to Zappa’s 1981 Halloween concert last night—just available on Apple, not sure if it has been out on disk before, but excellent production, excellent performance...probably THE best example of early 80’s live Zappa I have ever heard. I saw them live about this time...probably with Steve Vai, though TBH I don’t remember if he was with them or not. Also some absolutely smoking Zappa solos.
Anyway...
There was a great deal of tapping going on by Steve Vai, especially on Stevie’s Spanking, also their ersatz version of Whipping Post, which is much better than the one on their official release. I think I heard a few quotes from EVH there, if I wasn’t mishearing.Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 10-12-2020 at 02:39 PM.
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Cowbell! Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
"Dance the Night Away" is one of my favorite Van Halen songs. Great rhythm part from Eddie.
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Any Aztec Camera/Roddy Frame fans out there? I used to have the EP with this B-side back in the day. Came out 6 months after the VH original. I thought that it was pretty cool that they covered it. A bit different, eh?
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Aztec Camera---there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Never heard this track before. Thanks. Originally Posted by lammie200
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I always dug how he handled the interlude -- obviously-cranked amp, but a very soft touch to emphasize harmonics. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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That album was produced by Mark Knopfler but this song was produced by the band itself Originally Posted by lammie200
Last edited by ksaric; 10-13-2020 at 04:09 AM.
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I remember reading, MANY years ago, that they used to play in their backyard, meanwhile they also used to have these huge BBQ-parties, where the whole neighborhood was invited. Originally Posted by fep
Did you ever see that, visited the parties, if so how was it? Was it even true?
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