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  1. #1
    I’ve been listening to lots of Coltrane, Mingus, etc. I love the manic intensity of their pieces!

    I was wondering if anyone could recommend me any guitarists with that same feel and really intensity.

    I find most lead jazz guitarists as overly clean and polished, something I’ve never enjoyed much.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Tal Farlow, John McLaughlin ?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by teeps
    Tal Farlow, John McLaughlin ?
    noooooooo

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish16hockey
    I’ve been listening to lots of Coltrane, Mingus, etc. I love the manic intensity of their pieces!

    I was wondering if anyone could recommend me any guitarists with that same feel and really intensity.

    I find most lead jazz guitarists as overly clean and polished, something I’ve never enjoyed much.
    Here is Dexter Gordon with Philip Catherine.


  6. #5

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    Wes, Joe Pass, Billy Bauer?

  7. #6

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    Hard bop? Wes, Grant Green, Early Benson...

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by teeps
    Tal Farlow, John McLaughlin ?
    lol

  9. #8

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    GRANT GREEN

    (also there was a guy called Wes something?)

  10. #9

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    Might not be what you had in mind but it flipping slaps


  11. #10

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    grant green
    wes montgomery
    eddie mcfadden
    roland prince
    vinnie corrao
    paul weeden
    rene thomas
    george benson
    jimmy ponder
    nathen page
    ted dunbar
    doug raney
    melvin sparks
    richie hart
    mark elf
    eric gale
    pete bernstein
    sonny greenwich
    ronald muldrow
    henry johnson
    quentin warren
    thornel schwartz
    phil upchurch
    howard roberts
    joe diorio
    ray crawford
    billy butler
    billy bean
    wim overgaauw
    pat martino
    rodney jones
    bobby broom
    grant green jr
    louis stewart
    helmut kagerer
    karl ratzer
    jim mullen
    clint strong

    and i missed probably just as many
    Last edited by djg; 04-02-2020 at 02:06 PM.

  12. #11

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    Been listening to this a lot lately


  13. #12

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    Kenny Burrell fit in the hard bop camp when he wanted to.


  14. #13

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    I still never have figured out exactly what "hard bop" is.

    Any trait-lists, definitions, etc. out there?

  15. #14

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    Hard bop is like bop but harder

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I still never have figured out exactly what "hard bop" is.

    Any trait-lists, definitions, etc. out there?
    Horace Silver and Art Blakey were prime exponents.

    Wikipedia has a reasonable stab at describing it:
    Hard bop - Wikipedia
    Last edited by grahambop; 04-02-2020 at 03:07 PM.

  17. #16

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    Jimmy Bruno

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I still never have figured out exactly what "hard bop" is.

    Any trait-lists, definitions, etc. out there?
    Grew out of bebop, not as much of an emphasis on speed (but can still burn) more blues/r&b inflected, somewhat simpler, singable heads, art blakey is probably involved. Almost anything on blue note from like 1957 to 1962-3.

    So you know, all the best music ever created

    The older guys I knew coming up just called it bop. "Bebop" was a very specific time and place to them. You can't play "bebop" anymore. It's over. But bop lives on. Or something.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Hard bop? Wes, Grant Green, Early Benson...
    What is throwing me off is the comment of "overly clean and polished".

    Ok, "overly" can be interpreted many ways, but as for "clean and polish", I can't figure out how that relates to playing in a hard bop style.

    This is why I posted that Philip Catherine track with Dexter Gordon since Philip uses effects.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Grew out of bebop, not as much of an emphasis on speed (but can still burn) more blues/r&b inflected, somewhat simpler, singable heads, art blakey is probably involved. Almost anything on blue note from like 1957 to 1962-3.
    Gospel influence too. Soul-jazz was an outgrowth of this.

    This Horace Silver tune is a good example---not as angular as bebop tended to be and there was an emphasis on playing solos one need not be a player to appreciate. ;o)


  21. #20

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    Early Pat Martino stuff can get quite intense:


  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Early Pat Martino stuff can get quite intense:

    Man, I love all the accents. He's playing HARD.

  23. #22

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    Most of what's been categorized as hard bop doesn't include a guitar player.

    I like to think of this as an opportunity...

  24. #23

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    One of the archetypal hard bop tracks is Moanin’ (by Bobby Timmons):


  25. #24

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    As already mentioned, Wes Montgomery could bop hard:


  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Early Pat Martino stuff can get quite intense:
    pat at 17


  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Horace Silver and Art Blakey were prime exponents.

    Wikipedia has a reasonable stab at describing it:
    Hard bop - Wikipedia
    I think of the "Horace Silver & The Jazz Messengers" album (1955) as primus inter pares. (No guitar but what the hell)
    A few favorite cuts from it: "Room 608" , "The Preacher", and "Doodlin'"






  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Early Pat Martino stuff can get quite intense:

    Holy hell.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by corpse
    Holy hell.
    exactly! I have the CD but I still haven’t heard all the tracks - can only digest Pat’s onslaughts one at a time on that record!

    It would have been incredible to see him in a small club like that in his early years. I only saw him in the 80s but he was still great then (he was with Joey de Francesco).

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    exactly! I have the CD but I still haven’t heard all the tracks - can only digest Pat’s onslaughts one at a time on that record!

    It would have been incredible to see him in a small club like that in his early years. I only saw him in the 80s but he was still great then (he was with Joey de Francesco).
    What a coincidence. Been listening to the first track this morning. This entire CD is on Youtube, legally even ...

    DB

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
    What a coincidence. Been listening to the first track this morning. This entire CD is on Youtube, legally even ...

    DB
    Hell yeah, tonight I’m going to pour myself a large scotch and listen to the rest of the CD!

    Great photo of Pat on the CD cover:

    Hard Bop Guitarists?-314c9acd-0a36-4db8-a78b-d6b75cd8c56c-jpg

  32. #31

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    the solo on who can i turn to is to die for.


  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Hell yeah, tonight I’m going to pour myself a large scotch and listen to the rest of the CD!

    Great photo of Pat on the CD cover:

    Hard Bop Guitarists?-314c9acd-0a36-4db8-a78b-d6b75cd8c56c-jpg
    You can see that Pat's guitar is stuffed full, as he tended to do at that time.

  34. #33

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    The top British hard bop player in the 1960s and onward was Terry Smith. Even in the jazz-rock band If, he basically played hard bop:

  35. #34

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    Grant Green was mentioned by many, and was "house" guitarist for Blue Note records in the 60's. From 1960-1965 (legendary years!) he was a sideman on more records than anyone else, on a premier label full of legends making historic recordings. To me, that makes him kinda the king of hardbop guitar.

  36. #35

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    has anyone ever heard the pat martino/sonny stitt duo? they did quite a few gigs together afaik. who are the collectors of rare stuff around here?

  37. #36

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    Jim Hall? Johnnie Smith?

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    Jim Hall? Johnnie Smith?
    Definitely not JS.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I still never have figured out exactly what "hard bop" is.

    .

    Bop is a little softer

  40. #39

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    Mostly a horn genre but the guitarists that come to my mind are of course Pat Martino, Grant Green, early George Benson i.e. Cookbook, Joe Diorio, Ted Dunbar, and Wes.

  41. #40

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    "Hard bop" was a label used to contrast with "cool jazz".

    Cool jazz was mostly West Coast, L.A.-based, while hard bop was East Coast, N.Y.-based.

    Subtext was that the L.A. scene was a lot whiter than the N.Y. scene.

    Cool jazz had more prominent guitarists, including Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel, and Jim Hall.

    Hard bop tended to be more piano- and horn-based, but also includes the organ trio format, which often had guitarists, such as Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, George Benson, and Kenny Burrell.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    Definitely not JS.

    That's the reason for the question mark. Wasn't sure if he or Jim Hall were considered bop. But, I'm relatively new to this.

  43. #42

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    (its just clicked to me that this title refers to the transition of the two eras)

  44. #43

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    No guitars, but it's great for jamming along to.

  45. #44

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    When I think of hard bop, the first thing I think of is Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. The dynamics would be different with a guitar in any of his groups. The horns could often scream and shout, guitars don't have this capability. I think the guitar would tend to get drowned out. Grant Green did some great recordings with Blakey but without horns.

  46. #45

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    Tony Purrone can play some serious hard bop in the line of Jimmy Raney
    Last edited by jazzimprov; 04-10-2020 at 05:30 PM.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzimprov
    Tony Purrone can play some serious hard bop in the line of Jimmy Rainey
    Great player, caught him w Jimmy Heath's band once w Rufus Reid and Akira Tana

  48. #47

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    Nonsense. Back to Grant.


  49. #48

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    (In seriousness I hear about these parts that Grant was a bit Raney fan, which I find to be intriguing.)

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by zephyrregent
    When I think of hard bop, the first thing I think of is Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. The dynamics would be different with a guitar in any of his groups. The horns could often scream and shout, guitars don't have this capability. I think the guitar would tend to get drowned out. Grant Green did some great recordings with Blakey but without horns.
    You wot m8?


    I suppose horn singular. But Green was basically a horn.

  51. #50

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    Also there is this. It’s not Grant Green but it is acceptable. Classic hard bop lineup.