Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 46 of 46
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    he had the ability to realize his limitations yet remain completely in the real time groove...so that even when he was technically challenged he remained sweet and in the moment...and that...soul...got him thru

    an early example-

    elevator to the gallows (usa title) soundtrack



    later he did it with jack johnson..and began his electric era..which was still much about that ^ same ethic



    i'd put the great chet baker and even obscure tony fruscella in there..but they were miles disciples..he was first

    cheers

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    he had the ability to realize his limitations yet remain completely in the real time groove...so that even when he was technically challenged he remained sweet and in the moment...and that...soul...got him thru

    an early example-

    elevator to the gallows (usa title) soundtrack



    later he did it with jack johnson..and began his electric era..which was still much about that ^ same ethic



    i'd put the great chet baker and even obscure tony fruscella in there..but they were miles disciples..he was first

    cheers
    I have read that that is a great movie (Ascenseur). I want to see it.

    Miles could play his a$$ off. Any limitations he might have had, or maybe just a desire not to compete in the arena of which bebop artist can blow the hardest, led him to create his own sound and move in so many fruitful directions creatively.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Like so many musicians, Miles used his horn to embody all that he was unable to be in the rest of his life. I recently listened again to Sketches of Spain after not hearing it for years. Man, what complete and total brilliance in Gil Evan's writing and what humanity in Miles horn playing! Love, pain, yearning, joy, sadness .... it's all there coming out of his trumpet. In general, I need Miles in small doses and for everyday listening, give me Paul Desmond with Jim Hall.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu



    One of my favourite films. Superb music throughout by all the musicians, but particularly Miles, who was treated with great respect in Paris, in contrast to what he got at home. But do seek out the film, it's a classic.

    And...I'm in love with Jeanne Moreau

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Yes me too, I have a copy I recorded off the telly once, in fact I watched it again a few weeks ago!

  7. #6

    User Info Menu


  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    If you have a chance, watch the four DVDs of "JAZZ" by Ken Burn, 12 épisodes about the history of jazz music. Blues, New Orleans, Chicago, Swing, Bebop, Cool, Free, Fusion, etc ..

    Miles begins to appear in Episode 9, I guess

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    The whole movie's on youtube...

    OK just checked & c'est disparu

    merde...

    'tis a great film, Louis Malle said lots of people heard the music first & then wanted to see the film - lines round the block...

    I listen to music Miles made from every decade of his career but if I had to pick one period it'd be this one - the 2 volume Blue Note sessions from '52 - 54

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    1st half only, with some music at least around 44:00 (didn't check all of it) Ascenseur pour l'Echafaud - 1958 ( 1ere Partie ) - Video Dailymotion

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Great. But what does the French guy say at the end?

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Great. But what does the French guy say at the end?
    'what was that?
    'That was Miles Davis improvising to footage from my film Ascenseur pour l'echafaud'

    Louis Malle himself...

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    I admire Miles and enjoy a lot of his work, but greatest? It's a subjective judgment, I know, so it's probably fruitless to argue aobut, but I would place at least three horn players above Miles: Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, and John Coltrane. But that's me. And I don't want to rag on Miles. He was a rare and precious talent.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I admire Miles and enjoy a lot of his work, but greatest? It's a subjective judgment, I know, so it's probably fruitless to argue aobut, but I would place at least three horn players above Miles: Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, and John Coltrane. But that's me. And I don't want to rag on Miles. He was a rare and precious talent.

    i didnt mean literally "the greatest"..as music is not competition...but used it more in the beat sense...as in that cats the greatest!

    i would say, that miles has probably influenced the way modern/current trumpet players play more than just about anyone else since he started recording...just like louie A had previously in his generation

    cheers

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Which guitar players did he influence the most? I hear him in Jim Hall and Scofield - that ability to choose the right note at the right time, that can turn a composition down a different track. Every. Note. Mattered.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Which guitar players did he influence the most? I hear him in Jim Hall and Scofield - that ability to choose the right note at the right time, that can turn a composition down a different track. Every. Note. Mattered.
    frisell!!...uses silence and tone as much as notes..very miles

    cheers

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Turner Classic Movies (TCM), will be showing Elevators to the Gallows on Saturday, March 21st at 12:00 Am EDT (USA).

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Which guitar players did he influence the most? I hear him in Jim Hall and Scofield - that ability to choose the right note at the right time, that can turn a composition down a different track. Every. Note. Mattered.
    Well he influenced every guitar player who played with him. McLaughlin is particularly laudatory toward Miles.

    I would say that at least to my ears I don’t hear a lot of Miles in their playing though. They seem to have developed their own thing when they were with Miles and then did that, rather than copying Miles.

    You could say that about most people who played with Miles. Coltrane...Wayne Shorter...Chick...Herbie...Zawinul...

    A contrast that comes to mind is James Blood Ulmer, who became a disciple of harmelodics when he played with Ornette Coleman and carried that forward for a couple of decades.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Great. But what does the French guy say at the end?
    What's exactly happening ? (unknown speaker)

    Well, that's the American musician Miles Davis improvising along with watching my movie, Elevator to the Gallows (reply by Louis Malle, the movie Director)

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    there is so much miles davis recorded music , that has huge value today

    i can only speak for myself , but, four and more, miles smiles, milestones (trane, garland, chambers , jones), esp, stuff i cant call the name , i just dont practice with it as much, also stuff with bird and bish and what that era represents, all that stuff is a big teacher for me right now. i put those cuts on to line up my swing feel , using the differant eras to change styles , and it really tightens me up and centers me . they are massive teachers , right up into today.

    but, other people may be tuned into the other miles eras .great players with him also didnt get the shot they deserved, garland, kelly come to mind...do people know how incredable paul chambers is?

    its his players, special players who all were heading in those directions and laid it down and that is what miles wanted. each era had differant players, some were super groups, some were super arrangers , from gil evans to marcus miller

    miles could pull them together, and , then to have trane launch his career, off that, most of the people from kind of blue , evans, adderly , most from the tony ron herbie wayne, most from the chick jack dave

    just the value of having some cuts from his arquive that i can practice to and still be learning from ,pays for itself many times over

    i think they will be talking about miles in 200 years...?? hopefully with his colleagues contributions recognised also...they are gigantic, many sluffed over for a free er , more about self expresion aproach than the discipline those groups took it to, that stuff was really deep

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    It is like Miles always had better overall view of bigger picture, than anybody else in his surroundings. He provided tge context

    Music performers produced arguably better result in context, when as contractors they played with Miles, trying to please him, then when they played in self directed projects.

    In that documentary, someone cited him, something like: "... I'll take care about public/ audience, you just play ...".





    Sent from My Blog Page

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Soul.

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    In my mind, one of Miles' biggest contribution to jazz was his profound conceptual influence on his own groups, and then the dominating effect his sidemen had on the jazz world when they started their own groups, and continues on exponentially through their sidemen. Modern jazz history was hugely shaped by Miles Davis alumni. Nobody else comes close.

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    In my mind, one of Miles' biggest contribution to jazz was his profound conceptual influence on his own groups, and then the dominating effect his sidemen had on the jazz world when they started their own groups, and continues on exponentially through their sidemen. Modern jazz history was hugely shaped by Miles Davis alumni. Nobody else comes close.
    I can see the appeal of this framework, though I think there is a difference between the big band days (Basie, Ellington, et al) and the small-group days. John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderley were not "sidemen" in the sense of filling out a band. They were major players in their own right. Same for Bill Evans, Sonny Rollins, et al.

    It's not like Miles taught them how to play, or even shaped the way they played---they didn't play like him at all. Sonny's still going and he never sounded anything like Miles and his conception is nothing like that of Miles. Same for Coltrane. Same for Cannonball...

    One could say that what Miles brought forth was the group that didn't have sidemen---everyone was a featured player, everyone could hold his own and contribute a unique voice. (I wouldn't say he was the first to do that but I think someone might argue that point.)

    This may be in part because Miles needs a great band to make himself sound good. Sonny Rollins can sound great all by himself. (Hard to do on a horn but he has done it.)

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    This may be in part because Miles needs a great band to make himself sound good. Sonny Rollins can sound great all by himself. (Hard to do on a horn but he has done it.)
    All this tells me is that you don't enjoy Miles as a trumpet player. He was Sonny's equal and more, so said Sonny.
    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 03-17-2020 at 03:19 AM.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    All this tells me is that you don't enjoy Miles as a trumpet player. He was Sonny's equal and more, so said Sonny.
    I think he just meant that Sonny could (and did) play beautifully unaccompanied.

    I love Miles playing but he benefits from having a band behind him. Other than some brief passages in some of his middle works...In a Silent Way? Jack Johnson? He rarely plays unaccompanied.

    Unless there are some recordings I’m not aware of.

  27. #26

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    All this tells me is that you don't enjoy Miles as a trumpet player. He was Sonny's equal and more, so said Sonny.
    I DO enjoy Miles as a trumpet player. His solo on "Doxy" is one of my all-time favorites. Miles made several of my favorite jazz albums. But Miles' conception required a great band to make the silence between his notes full. Contrast this with the orchestra behind Coleman Hawkins on "Body and Soul"---pretty nondescript, yet Hawkins towers. If you listen to "Tutu"---which I listened to a LOT when it first came out, Miles actually plays very little. Sometimes it seems like he's a guest artist on a Marcus Miller album. But I love the result. I just don't think this puts him on par with Coltrane or Bird as a musician.

    I would say Miles was a better composer---he did have a sense of making the whole band want to sound great together, whereas Coltrane could seem to forget there were other musicians playing with him---but it seems he took credit for many tunes actually written by others (Solar, Tune Up, Dig, Four...)

    He had his own sound and that's huge. I'm a fan, but not a fanatic.

  28. #27

    User Info Menu

    There are many"greatest" lists out there, of course. But I will share link to this one, because I will quote from it: The Greatest Jazz Artists …According to The BBC Also of course, all those lists include Miles, and maybe not so of course, they do not include Rollins. For a reason, or not?

    Anyway, below is quote from that article on above link, where from I removed sentence about Miles and replaced it with sentence about Mr. Joe Doe (sorry Joe, you do not deserve this, but JGF is one funny place), as per what I learned in this thread was the thing that makes one be really great (my addition is in blue bold font):
    Describing the top 10 as “the best of the best,” Radio 3’s Geoffrey Smith said the first three positions were all occupied by “immortals” of jazz music. “Duke, the orchestral master; Louis, the father of us all; Joe Doe, who could play unaccompanied and has recordings of it.

    And here is original sentence, one about Miles:
    ... the essence of the ever-changing contemporary spirit.

  29. #28

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop


    One of my favourite films. Superb music throughout by all the musicians, but particularly Miles, who was treated with great respect in Paris, in contrast to what he got at home. But do seek out the film, it's a classic.

    And...I'm in love with Jeanne Moreau
    Thank you for that clip, Brother!

    What got me into learning jazz was the mental image of a tragic-cool solo horn playing on a lonely, dark and rainy night. I knew if I was going to have any shot at emulating that vibe on a guitar I was going to have to transition from learning songs to learning music. To play a musical line that worked; that made sense, and had some soul. There is not a facet of my playing that has not improved dramatically as a result of the effort.

    And there it all is, in a two minute clip. Thank you!

  30. #29

    User Info Menu

    I hear, you, Betz!

  31. #30

    User Info Menu

    Love Miles and all he captured as a musician and leader. Yes, he certainly hired and influenced a lot of young musicians but I'll just mention Art Blakey in this discussion. Blakey's bands consistently had young guys who went on to great fame. Won't bother to mention many but Freddie Hubbard, Bennie Golson, Wayne Shorter and the Marsalis Bros come to mind.

    I came to Miles through Bitches Brew and then went backwards. His best groups were from the '50s for me.

  32. #31

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    I hear, you, Betz!
    Of course, I now have Jeanne Moreau in that mental image . . .

  33. #32

    User Info Menu

    Ah, she has got you too. There's no escape!

  34. #33

    User Info Menu

    miles and gil E...one of their best

    Concierto De Aranjuez



    cheers

  35. #34

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzereh
    Love Miles and all he captured as a musician and leader. Yes, he certainly hired and influenced a lot of young musicians but I'll just mention Art Blakey in this discussion. Blakey's bands consistently had young guys who went on to great fame. Won't bother to mention many but Freddie Hubbard, Bennie Golson, Wayne Shorter and the Marsalis Bros come to mind.

    I came to Miles through Bitches Brew and then went backwards. His best groups were from the '50s for me.
    People with more knowledge of Art Blakey can chime in here, but it seems to me certain bands like Blakey’s were keen on bringing in young, talented but inexperienced players and building them up. There was a strong structure for developing musicians.

    Kind of like certain sports teams—there are “young teams” (Seattle Seahawks) and “old teams” (New England Patriots). Blakey seems to me to be a young team.

    Miles on the other hand was hiring guys for specific purposes—young, but already with a distinctive style. His structure was much looser and gave the artists more room to express themselves individually.

    I think Miles’ sidemen would have been successful regardless of whether they had played with Miles. On the other hand, I think a lot of Blakey’s players developed into mature musicians under his tutelage. The students ironically often overshadowed the master, at least in album sales.

  36. #35

    User Info Menu


  37. #36

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    So she and Miles are both gone. Is is not amazing that, in this simple 2 minute clip, it is still 1958 with both of them vital and powerful.

  38. #37

    User Info Menu

    miles & moreau



    cheers

  39. #38

    User Info Menu

    I had heard. A life well lived.

  40. #39

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Betz
    So she and Miles are both gone. Is is not amazing that, in this simple 2 minute clip, it is still 1958 with both of them vital and powerful.
    TCM (Turner Classic Movies), is showing Elevators to the Gallows tonight, at midnight, USA Eastern Time.

  41. #40

    User Info Menu

    thanks for the reminder, Ill try to catch it...

  42. #41

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    miles & moreau



    cheers
    Great pictures!

  43. #42

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    thanks for the reminder, Ill try to catch it...
    I watched Elevators to the Gallows last night. Loved it; Miles score really adds something to this French noir film.

  44. #43

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    I watched Elevators to the Gallows last night. Loved it; Miles score really adds something to this French noir film.
    Yeah, I thought at times it would still be good w/out that soundtrack but it truly lifted it higher.

  45. #44

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I have read that that is a great movie (Ascenseur). I want to see it.

    Miles could play his a$$ off. Any limitations he might have had, or maybe just a desire not to compete in the arena of which bebop artist can blow the hardest, led him to create his own sound and move in so many fruitful directions creatively.

    As I understand it, if I remember correctly, he really wanted to be able to play like Dizzy, Parker etc, at first, but realize he simply didn't have the technique, and that was what later led him to develop his own style.

  46. #45

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    People with more knowledge of Art Blakey can chime in here, but it seems to me certain bands like Blakey’s were keen on bringing in young, talented but inexperienced players and building them up. There was a strong structure for developing musicians.

    Kind of like certain sports teams—there are “young teams” (Seattle Seahawks) and “old teams” (New England Patriots). Blakey seems to me to be a young team.

    Miles on the other hand was hiring guys for specific purposes—young, but already with a distinctive style. His structure was much looser and gave the artists more room to express themselves individually.

    I think Miles’ sidemen would have been successful regardless of whether they had played with Miles. On the other hand, I think a lot of Blakey’s players developed into mature musicians under his tutelage. The students ironically often overshadowed the master, at least in album sales.
    This seems correct, at least from what I understand it as well.

  47. #46

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by greveost
    As I understand it, if I remember correctly, he really wanted to be able to play like Dizzy, Parker etc, at first, but realize he simply didn't have the technique, and that was what later led him to develop his own style.
    w/out question, he was never the virtuoso they were, pretty incredible that he was attendending Julliard during the day and working w Bird at night on 52nd st, they must've heard something in him, but obviously found his way big later.