Why Miles Davis Was the Greatest...

[MarkRhodes]

All this tells me is that you don't enjoy Miles as a trumpet player. He was Sonny's equal and more, so said Sonny.

I DO enjoy Miles as a trumpet player. His solo on "Doxy" is one of my all-time favorites. Miles made several of my favorite jazz albums. But Miles' conception required a great band to make the silence between his notes full. Contrast this with the orchestra behind Coleman Hawkins on "Body and Soul"---pretty nondescript, yet Hawkins towers. If you listen to "Tutu"---which I listened to a LOT when it first came out, Miles actually plays very little. Sometimes it seems like he's a guest artist on a Marcus Miller album. But I love the result. I just don't think this puts him on par with Coltrane or Bird as a musician.

I would say Miles was a better composer---he did have a sense of making the whole band want to sound great together, whereas Coltrane could seem to forget there were other musicians playing with him---but it seems he took credit for many tunes actually written by others (Solar, Tune Up, Dig, Four...)

He had his own sound and that's huge. I'm a fan, but not a fanatic.

[Vladan]

There are many"greatest" lists out there, of course. But I will share link to this one, because I will quote from it: The Greatest Jazz Artists …According to The BBC Also of course, all those lists include Miles, and maybe not so of course, they do not include Rollins. For a reason, or not?

Anyway, below is quote from that article on above link, where from I removed sentence about Miles and replaced it with sentence about Mr. Joe Doe (sorry Joe, you do not deserve this, but JGF is one funny place), as per what I learned in this thread was the thing that makes one be really great (my addition is in blue bold font):

Describing the top 10 as “the best of the best,” Radio 3’s Geoffrey Smith said the first three positions were all occupied by “immortals” of jazz music. “Duke, the orchestral master; Louis, the father of us all; Joe Doe, who could play unaccompanied and has recordings of it.

And here is original sentence, one about Miles:

... the essence of the ever-changing contemporary spirit.

[Betz]

One of my favourite films. Superb music throughout by all the musicians, but particularly Miles, who was treated with great respect in Paris, in contrast to what he got at home. But do seek out the film, it's a classic.

And...I'm in love with Jeanne Moreau

Thank you for that clip, Brother!

What got me into learning jazz was the mental image of a tragic-cool solo horn playing on a lonely, dark and rainy night. I knew if I was going to have any shot at emulating that vibe on a guitar I was going to have to transition from learning songs to learning music. To play a musical line that worked; that made sense, and had some soul. There is not a facet of my playing that has not improved dramatically as a result of the effort.

And there it all is, in a two minute clip. Thank you!

[Rob MacKillop]

I hear, you, Betz!

[jazzereh]

Love Miles and all he captured as a musician and leader. Yes, he certainly hired and influenced a lot of young musicians but I'll just mention Art Blakey in this discussion. Blakey's bands consistently had young guys who went on to great fame. Won't bother to mention many but Freddie Hubbard, Bennie Golson, Wayne Shorter and the Marsalis Bros come to mind.

I came to Miles through Bitches Brew and then went backwards. His best groups were from the '50s for me.

[Betz]

I hear, you, Betz!

Of course, I now have Jeanne Moreau in that mental image . . .

[Rob MacKillop]

Ah, she has got you too. There's no escape!

[neatomic]

miles and gil E...one of their best

Concierto De Aranjuez

cheers

[Doctor Jeff]

Love Miles and all he captured as a musician and leader. Yes, he certainly hired and influenced a lot of young musicians but I'll just mention Art Blakey in this discussion. Blakey's bands consistently had young guys who went on to great fame. Won't bother to mention many but Freddie Hubbard, Bennie Golson, Wayne Shorter and the Marsalis Bros come to mind.

I came to Miles through Bitches Brew and then went backwards. His best groups were from the '50s for me.

People with more knowledge of Art Blakey can chime in here, but it seems to me certain bands like Blakey’s were keen on bringing in young, talented but inexperienced players and building them up. There was a strong structure for developing musicians.

Kind of like certain sports teams—there are “young teams” (Seattle Seahawks) and “old teams” (New England Patriots). Blakey seems to me to be a young team.

Miles on the other hand was hiring guys for specific purposes—young, but already with a distinctive style. His structure was much looser and gave the artists more room to express themselves individually.

I think Miles’ sidemen would have been successful regardless of whether they had played with Miles. On the other hand, I think a lot of Blakey’s players developed into mature musicians under his tutelage. The students ironically often overshadowed the master, at least in album sales.

[whiskey02]

Jeanne Moreau obituary: a cultured, sensual actress for whom cinema was “life itself” | Sight & Sound | BFI

Sorry, in case you didn’t know, she passed a few months back.

[Betz]

Jeanne Moreau obituary: a cultured, sensual actress for whom cinema was “life itself” | Sight & Sound | BFI

Sorry, in case you didn’t know, she passed a few months back.

So she and Miles are both gone. Is is not amazing that, in this simple 2 minute clip, it is still 1958 with both of them vital and powerful.

[neatomic]

miles & moreau



cheers

[Rob MacKillop]

I had heard. A life well lived.

[jameslovestal]

So she and Miles are both gone. Is is not amazing that, in this simple 2 minute clip, it is still 1958 with both of them vital and powerful.

TCM (Turner Classic Movies), is showing Elevators to the Gallows tonight, at midnight, USA Eastern Time.

[wintermoon]

thanks for the reminder, Ill try to catch it...

[Doctor Jeff]

miles & moreau



cheers

Great pictures!

[jameslovestal]

thanks for the reminder, Ill try to catch it...

I watched Elevators to the Gallows last night. Loved it; Miles score really adds something to this French noir film.

[wintermoon]

I watched Elevators to the Gallows last night. Loved it; Miles score really adds something to this French noir film.

Yeah, I thought at times it would still be good w/out that soundtrack but it truly lifted it higher.

[greveost]

I have read that that is a great movie (Ascenseur). I want to see it.

Miles could play his a$$ off. Any limitations he might have had, or maybe just a desire not to compete in the arena of which bebop artist can blow the hardest, led him to create his own sound and move in so many fruitful directions creatively.

As I understand it, if I remember correctly, he really wanted to be able to play like Dizzy, Parker etc, at first, but realize he simply didn't have the technique, and that was what later led him to develop his own style.

[greveost]

People with more knowledge of Art Blakey can chime in here, but it seems to me certain bands like Blakey’s were keen on bringing in young, talented but inexperienced players and building them up. There was a strong structure for developing musicians.

Kind of like certain sports teams—there are “young teams” (Seattle Seahawks) and “old teams” (New England Patriots). Blakey seems to me to be a young team.

Miles on the other hand was hiring guys for specific purposes—young, but already with a distinctive style. His structure was much looser and gave the artists more room to express themselves individually.

I think Miles’ sidemen would have been successful regardless of whether they had played with Miles. On the other hand, I think a lot of Blakey’s players developed into mature musicians under his tutelage. The students ironically often overshadowed the master, at least in album sales.

This seems correct, at least from what I understand it as well.

[wintermoon]

As I understand it, if I remember correctly, he really wanted to be able to play like Dizzy, Parker etc, at first, but realize he simply didn't have the technique, and that was what later led him to develop his own style.

w/out question, he was never the virtuoso they were, pretty incredible that he was attendending Julliard during the day and working w Bird at night on 52nd st, they must've heard something in him, but obviously found his way big later.

[JCat]

Miles wrote 13 compositions/vamps, not all of them got widespread recognition, but a few of them are indeed very nice. It would be foolish to question his contribution as an artist and bandleader, after all he climbed to rock star fame by making hot Jazz covers of other people's music before nailing it with "Kind of Blue", arguably the most sold Jazz record of all time, including 5 tracks all written by Miles. Those songs are pretty good, but not anywhere near the Jazz standards top list.

So he could blow the horn -check. He got a signature tone - check. And he brought skilled musicians together. -check. And he became a Rockstar - check. And he sold a lot of records - check. And I went to see him once and I'm influenced by his music- check.

Is he the greatest? You decide for yourself.

[grahambop]

"Kind of Blue", arguably the most sold Jazz record of all time, including 5 tracks all written by Miles.

There’s a lot of dispute over ‘Blue in Green’, Bill Evans claimed he wrote it but Miles took the credit (and the royalties - not the first time Miles did that!). Bill’s friend, composer Earl Zindars, also confirmed this.

[grahambop]

I love Miles playing but he benefits from having a band behind him. Other than some brief passages in some of his middle works...In a Silent Way? Jack Johnson? He rarely plays unaccompanied.

Unless there are some recordings I’m not aware of.

There is an early album where Miles plays with just a rhythm section (no horns):

The Musings of Miles - Wikipedia

[Rob MacKillop]

Jazz is mainly about self expression through improvisation. You don't have to be a great composer too...