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  1. #1

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    Hello,

    A while ago I stumbled upon a Miles Davis quote where he said something along the lines of "preserve this, preserve that.." and seemingly lamented the traditionalist approach to jazz. For the life of me I can't find it now, and don't remember where I read it. Is anyone familiar with it?

    Thanks.

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  3. #2

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    Miles was pretty much an endless supply of useless personal bullshit. He knew people put a lot of gravity on his opinions, so he liked to yank folk's chains for fun. Best to just make something up, and say he said it.

    Miles Davis Quotes (Author of Miles)

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Miles was pretty much an endless supply of useless personal bullshit. He knew people put a lot of gravity on his opinions, so he liked to yank folk's chains for fun. Best to just make something up, and say he said it.

    Miles Davis Quotes (Author of Miles)
    Thanks for the source. Maybe it is a bias, but I liked most of them. Especially this one:

    “Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent.”

  5. #4

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    Even if you can't find it, this might make up for it :-)

    A Rolling Stone Interview With Miles Davis

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Miles was pretty much an endless supply of useless personal bullshit. ..............”

    Miles Davis Quotes (Author of Miles)

    Are you serious or joking? Couldn’t tell.

    AKA

  7. #6
    Thanks for info! I remembered something he said in the specific quote I read, something along the lines of "if they had their way they'd be cloning us in a lab." It may well have been in a YouTube comment somewhere, and he may well have never said it at all.

  8. #7

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    Miles was a creative musician. Period. If you're looking for philosophy . . . look elsewhere. Good playing . . . Marinero

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Miles was a creative musician. Period. If you're looking for philosophy . . . look elsewhere. Good playing . . . Marinero
    Nope just looking for that specific quote as part of potential school project. Nothing anything deeper than that.

  10. #9

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    I hope you're not chasing your tail over this.

    How methodically have you looked for this yourself? You've got to be a detective. Retrace your steps. How long ago was it? What were you doing at the time? Where were you?

    Did you find it on your mobile or a PC? Where? When? What were you looking for at the time? What were you googling? Why? If you googled it, what did you google? Jazz? Miles Davis? Somebody else? Can you remember how quickly you found it? Was it a link from the first page of results? It'll still be there.

    If you were on a PC it should still be in History. Ask the same questions. Put the question to yourself and sleep on it. You might suddenly remember something in the morning, or at some odd time. The brain's good that way.

    Be a detective. Retrace your steps. Be methodical. If you haven't got time, find time. It won't take long.

    If the worst comes to the worst and you really draw a blank, how much does it matter? One quote? You could always just write 'Miles once said he lamented...' etc and hope no one demands absolute proof! Or you could just leave the whole thing out altogether. It's only a school project, not some life-or-death exam.

    Good luck. When's this project got to be in by? Time's running out...

  11. #10
    I've searched through all my history and can't find anything. It was about a month ago or more. I didn't think much of it at the time.

    I've come to conclusion that it was part of a debate in a YouTube comment section and definitely included "preserve this, preserve that." Seeing as Google isn't turning up anything he was likely misquoted or he never said it at all! The crux was that we should be involving all the time musically. Plenty of other similar sentiments from Miles have been shared above so no worries. Thanks!

  12. #11

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    Well, I did wonder if it was Miles at all. He was known for being very forward-looking, always changing, and all that. Hearing him say 'Let's preserve the old ways' doesn't really connect, if you see what I mean. Could be quite wrong, of course, but it did cross my mind.

    Anyway, good luck with the project, it's not the end of the world. More fish to fry :-)

  13. #12
    Sorry to be more clear we was complaining about people who said "preserve this, preserve that" and said that if people had their way they'd be making clones (or something to that effect) of him and possibly Coltrane. I thought it was quite funny anyway, and interesting.

  14. #13

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    Miles was always saying things like ‘the music needs to move forward, not get stuck in the past’ etc. I imagine there are quite a few quotes by him along those lines.

  15. #14

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    "Wynton Marsalis? I don't know about him, man. But I know he doesn't talk like that when we're alone together. 'Preserve this' and 'preserve that’ — the way they're going we'll have blacks back on the plantation. I mean, it already is preserved. Isn't that what records are all about?

    "I just tell people it's like this: I can't wear bell-bottom pants anymore. And I don't drive an Edsel. I drive a Ferrari."

    Mark Rowland, "Miles Davis is a Living Legend and You're Not,"
    Musician, May 1987, page 90.

    Quoted in:


    Drifting On A Read: Jazz As A Model For Literary And Theoretical Writing
    By James Michael Jarrett
    PhD thesis
    University of Florida
    1988
    Page 59

  16. #15
    Thanks so much! That's the gist of it alright. I'm pretty certain I must have read a misquote somewhere but I can sleep easy now. Thanks!

  17. #16

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    Hate comparing as it's kinda apples oranges, Chagall was really great, but Picasso was on level of Bird imo, genius, and I dont use that term lightly. Agree, exc comparison.
    Faddis kind of a Diz clone ( that ain't really a bad thing)

    Now Vincent, well, that dude really moved me, got to see a couple major shows back in day, still haven't gotten over them, geez

  18. #17

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  19. #18

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    Though Miles was rude often most of what he says always seemed very clearly and directly put thoughts, very understandable.

    I never took him (and I thin alsmot anyone) as an extreme authoritive and never took anything for granted just because it was him - that concerns not only words but music too by the way.

    His
    "Don't play what's there. Play what's not there."

    Is actually very true artistic credo. I could say the same about writers or painters.
    Average writers describe what's already there (maybe tastefulle and scilfully), they often know what and how is going to happen.
    Great writers write to find out what is going to happen next.

    They do not know how it goes.
    Their art leads them to an unknown territory for themselves.


    This credo is a call to be as challaenging artistically as possible, to be true to your art and to yourself.
    And it is put in a very simple and clear form.


    Last edited by Jonah; 01-14-2020 at 10:19 AM.

  20. #19

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    From the 50s and 60s I can take every single note of him authoritive with no doubt.

  21. #20

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    Miles Davis would have been nothing without Dizzy Gillespie , he's pretty explicit about the debt in his autobiog .

    Also , Picarso can do one , absolute emporers new clothes , battened on to the avant-garde to cover his paucity of visual imagination . Not even original but a genius self-publicist .

  22. #21

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    Very interesting, but misses the point.

    I think there could be two kind of motivations to became anti confomist. A) is only just to be different, to be an anti mainsteam. This motivation has no particular image, do not want to create anything else just a big NOT. Of course they end up to be similar, the current mainstream's NOT, ironically calculated by the current culture thinking. No need complexity theory to explain this.

    However the B), does not care about others, and the mainstream, does not care anout being similar or opposite, or any, The B) type just want express himself faithfully, reagrdless what others do. He is not a l'art pour l'art anti conformist. All those kind of personality will end up differently as anti conformist, because in reality they are their different selfs.

    Interestingly those type primarily are "conformist", they want to conform to their self, an be with integrity their personality.
    Last edited by Gabor; 01-15-2020 at 12:50 AM.

  23. #22

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    Regarding comparing arts and drawing paralells in different arts like Picasso, Dizzy, Miles etc, the following is unbeatable:

    Mozart is the Beethoven of music!

  24. #23

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    I suspect the reason there is a focus on bebop on the forum is simply because a lot of us are at various stages of learning to play jazz, or improving what we know, we are not professional players, and bebop is still the ‘core’ approach to learning jazz and improvising over chord changes.

    It’s quite likely that many of us also listen to (and play) other genres of jazz (and other music).

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Very interesting, but misses the point.

    I think there could be two kind of motivations to became anti confomist. A) is only just to be different, to be an anti mainsteam. This motivation has no particular image, do not want to create anything else just a big NOT. Of course they end up to be similar, the current mainstream's NOT, ironically calculated by the current culture thinking. No need complexity theory to explain this.

    However the B), does not care about others, and the mainstream, does not care anout being similar or opposite, or any, The B) type just want express himself faithfully, reagrdless what others do. He is not a l'art pour l'art anti conformist. All those kind of personality will end up differently as anti conformist, because in reality they are their different selfs.

    Interestingly those type primarily are "conformist", they want to conform to their self, an be with integrity their personality.

    Well, I should have used an ironical emoticon on my post above, tongue-in-cheek - I just don't like reading texts (my own and others') that remind me on mouse cinema. Anyway, what I wanted to demonstrate is

    1. that we all have our, sometimes very limited, own assessment horizon. Complexity theory and mathematical methods are valid, but can only explain some aspects of the complex and often irrational human personality. If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
    2. that we have to differentiate between the few original hipsters (authentic non-conformists or artists that find new ways almost completely independent of the prevailing opinion, or of their own public image and appreciation), and the mass of wanna-be or fake hipsters (self-explaining). So I think the author of that "hipster-effect" publication could have a point, though he doesn't extend to this.


    One can think of Miles Davis personality and music whatever one likes. Personally, I don't think he was an original hipster, rather a driven personality, depending on public appreciation, or disregard. Possibly he created new styles only because of his technical-musical inadequacies that he suffered from first, and later - when he had overcome his drug addiction - he still showed some characteristic compulsive behavior of an addict, had always to get new kicks (sublimed not only in jazz and fusion), like any addict has to. Psychologically, it's usually the manifestation of a low level of self-esteem, which, in public, can sometimes increase to the contrary. In that sense, Miles could be called the first popstar of jazz.

    Please, do not misunderstand, I greatly appreciate many of Miles compositions! Nevertheless, I'd prefer a player and composer like Charles Mingus, who mastered his instrument very early on, and who could offer different styles in one single concert rather than just serially over the years. Mingus was an authentic hothead who hated dishonesty, and, like Miles, also complained about the playing skills and the high income of rock musicians, but never opportunistically used stylistic devices or forms of rock.

    For each language - and music is just an extension of language - Schopenhauer's word applies: "Use ordinary words and say unusual things". Viewed in this light Miles, at least after his hardbop years, was more the antithesis.

    If there has been an original jazz hipster in the past 80 years, that honor should be due to Thelonious Monk. Stars like Bird, Dizzy and Miles would hardly be conceivable without Monk's preparatory work and hipster-ness. A second candidate for an original jazz hipster would be Lester Young, though not so much musically seen.
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 01-15-2020 at 09:19 AM.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pycroft
    Miles Davis would have been nothing without Dizzy Gillespie , he's pretty explicit about the debt in his autobiog .

    Also , Picarso can do one , absolute emporers new clothes , battened on to the avant-garde to cover his paucity of visual imagination . Not even original but a genius self-publicist .
    Hi, Py,
    My exact sentiments. I have always said Picasso was a good technician but not an ARTIST. He was a 50's-60's hipster icon and the reason for his many "periods" was that he closely followed the trends in Art and capitalized on them with his famous name. He never found his voice and, in my opinion, never painted a great painting. The real artist(s) of his period, in my opinion, was Ernst Kirchner--German Expressionist painter as well as Emil Nolde, Max Beckman, George Groz, Oscar Kokaschka. Good playing . . . Marinero