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  1. #1

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    I love Trane but I could listen to Dexter Gordon all day. Same with Wes versus Kenny. I think it's that Trane and Wes are more demanding of me as a listener and after a while I get worn out. I never get tired of listening to Kenny. Maybe not as innovative as Wes (i.e. octaves and block chord improv) but a complete guitarist with an appealing tone and distinctive concept. Hey, and he's a good singer too!

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  3. #2

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    Without a doubt Kenny.

  4. #3

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    Wes AND Kenny.

  5. #4

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    Actually, neither for me. I can- and have- listen to Ed Bickert or Jim Hall all day, but I don't think I could do that with Wes or Kenny. Not sure why.

  6. #5

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    Wes and Kenny, but Jim is still one of the best.

  7. #6

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    Both, but KB is maybe in my top 3 ever, so...

  8. #7

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    Give me a dollop of Wes...a scoop of Kenny...and sweeten it with some old school Benson...and I'd be a happy the rest of my guitar listening life.

  9. #8

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    Wes. Enough said.

  10. #9

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    Kenny G?!!

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Kenny G?!!
    Yes of course! Kenny G.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Kenny G?!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Yes of course! Kenny G.
    Not my cup of tea, but indisputably the best golfer in show business.

  13. #12

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    Favorite KB tracks or solos?
    Last edited by 44lombard; 12-14-2019 at 12:24 AM.

  14. #13

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    None.

    Edit: Oops, I thought you meant Kenny G again!

    KB: any time he plays a blues, I'm in heaven.
    Last edited by Rob MacKillop; 12-14-2019 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by 44lombard
    Favorite KB tracks or solos?
    Midnight Blue and Satin Doll. As short those solos are, I can listen them zillion times since decades.

    However there is no way I can mention same level Wes with Kenny Burrell. Wes is a hero, and I love his music, but talking about Kenny Burrell, I love his music, despite his weaknesses, because it is loveble. Not the same.

  16. #15

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    Wes, all the way! Kenny who?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Wes, all the way! Kenny who?
    Maybe this is a bit harsh...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Maybe this is a bit harsh...
    Maybe yea. But Wes is in another league for me, all I can say.

  19. #18

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    If I had to pick one it would be Wes.
    Fortunately I don't have to....

  20. #19

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    Tough to pick and when Wes is on he manages to be the best. At the same time I can get a bit too much of his octave stuff. I enjoy his single lines and block chords but the octave thing goes on a bit much. Now Kenny at times can get a little bluesy to the point it is not his most interesting lines. His stuff when he is on though is amazing with very consistent sound.

  21. #20

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    neither of them..just too much Guitar.. but i could listen to this for hrs....below

  22. #21

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  23. #22

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    Silly question when you can have 'em both actually but if I couldn't I'd choose Kenny (I mean Burrell, Rob! ) for his always great tone and his versatilty for example.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 44lombard
    Favorite KB tracks or solos?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by buduranus2
    All the likes!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    If I had to pick one it would be Wes.
    Fortunately I don't have to....
    I was reading liner notes by Don DeMichael from Wes' Fingerpickin' CD (Wes' first as a leader- 1957): Below is the part relevant to your post and this thread:

    Montgomery fever soon spread through the jazz community and the fans outdid the critics. Thousand declared that Wes was the greatest of all guitarist, to the implied detriment of such worthies as Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessell,,. But jazz fans - and critics - are like that, always looking for kings, the "best", whatever that means.

    Musicians know better, and if there is anything they detest it's a comparison of one mans' work to another's. Music is not a contest. There are many flowers, of many hues and shapes, in the garden, and who can say a rose is more beautiful than a lily. There's is no need to choose. ENJOY THEM ALL.

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    I was reading liner notes by Don DeMichael from Wes' Fingerpickin' CD (Wes' first as a leader- 1957): Below is the part relevant to your post and this thread:

    Montgomery fever soon spread through the jazz community and the fans outdid the critics. Thousand declared that Wes was the greatest of all guitarist, to the implied detriment of such worthies as Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessell,,. But jazz fans - and critics - are like that, always looking for kings, the "best", whatever that means.

    Musicians know better, and if there is anything they detest it's a comparison of one mans' work to another's. Music is not a contest. There are many flowers, of many hues and shapes, in the garden, and who can say a rose is more beautiful than a lily. There's is no need to choose. ENJOY THEM ALL.
    Your commentary is well taken. My intention was to pose a "desert island" question. And as I mentioned in my OP, I find Wes (and Trane) to require more of me as a listener. So there's only so much I can take in one sitting. Personally, I don't believe in comparisons. At the same time, we all have our preferences which aren't necessarily value judgments. Perhaps my favorite Wes cut:


  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by buduranus2
    Your commentary is well taken. My intention was to pose a "desert island" question. And as I mentioned in my OP, I find Wes (and Trane) to require more of me as a listener. So there's only so much I can take in one sitting. Personally, I don't believe in comparisons. At the same time, we all have our preferences which aren't necessarily value judgments. Perhaps my favorite Wes cut:

    Nice to see that you took my post as intended. Frankly I just stumbled on to this last night. I was looking for something to listen to that I hadn't heard in a while and grabbed that Wes CD. I then decided to read the liner notes and, well,,,, found this,, and remembered this thread.

    Note that I would select Jimmy Raney as the one jazz guitarist I could listen too all day; lyrical and melodic and thus 'goes down well' and doesn't require much from me as a listener (not that Raney doesn't have complex lines,,, but again, that the lines are so flowing and lyrical,
    they are easy-on-the-ears).

  29. #28

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    Wes Anderson. Kenny Chesney. That's a hard choice.

  30. #29

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    I tried to google it but all I came up with was these guys:

    Wes or Kenny?-7b851f7e-6281-4cf9-a92e-966037c7efb4-jpg

  31. #30

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    In a fight?

  32. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
    In a fight?
    I'm afraid Kenny was more effective out of the ring than in it. 3 wins, 22 losses and 2 draws. Maybe he was trying to protect his hands?

    Wes or Kenny?-f3cl4i-jpg

  33. #32

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    First it is a bit strange for me to have Wes and Trane in such a coparison together.... Wes is mostly conventional jazz, Trane went much further... but I understand what is meant here anyway

    I repect and admire masters - Kenny Burrell is a true master and individuality... he has something to say with his music, there is always something behind in his playing.
    And when you dig deep into a master like that you can find pure treasures and it will bring hours of joy.. until you hear Wes again.

    Players like Wes are unique -- lots in his playing can be anylized and even questioned... but all together it has something that cannot be explained. I can understand his technique, his approach (there is nothig really coplex in it) but I cannot understand how it works...
    There is somethingin it that comes from very very far and deep.. from some source we cannot trace with reason, and I believe we feel it (and I believe that living in conventional world not everyone would appreciate that experience for a long time)

    there are artists that manage to personify some universal things... they can seem not very versatile, not having very broad technical and artistic range.. but they are so much convinced in what they are doing that it is impossible to resist it.
    Their stubborn dedication to one idea or topic has a bit inhuman nature maybe.
    In that sense Wes is close to Trane...

    And of course for people in general it is common to look for something that they suppose they would be able to do... I mean unconciously.

    People feel uncomfortable when they feel something important is going on which is beyond them...

    Actually.. have you ever had a feeling that even your existance may be disturbing for somene (even if you do not do or say anyhing)... because people feel that your existence just denies their way of living... it's the same thing.
    Last edited by Jonah; 12-15-2019 at 11:21 AM.

  34. #33
    Wes actually played in Trane's band for a couple of weeks:

    "Montgomery joined the Coltrane/Dolphy quintet in September 1961 during the
    California portion of the band's pre-VV tour. They played for 2 weeks at
    the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco and performed at the 1961 Monterey Jazz
    Festival. There have been rumors of a Monterey tape for years. The set
    included "My Favorite Things", "Naima" and "Impressions". Fujioka lists
    the session (September 22) but documents no tape."

    Here's Wes playing Impressions:


  35. #34

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    Comparing Wes to Trane as though Wes can be intellectually challenging, but (like Trane) not always soulfully satisfying? ... I'm afraid we don't inhabit the same universe ...

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by buduranus2
    Wes actually played in Trane's band for a couple of weeks:

    "Montgomery joined the Coltrane/Dolphy quintet in September 1961 during the
    California portion of the band's pre-VV tour. They played for 2 weeks at
    the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco and performed at the 1961 Monterey Jazz
    Festival. There have been rumors of a Monterey tape for years. The set
    included "My Favorite Things", "Naima" and "Impressions". Fujioka lists
    the session (September 22) but documents no tape."

    Here's Wes playing Impressions:

    It's not about who played with whom.. and if Wes played Tane's tunes... Trane did standards too.
    By the way..
    I can't check right now but I think there is record of Kenny Playing with Trane too...... I had a CD

  37. #36

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    Wes or Kenny?-81rjnl3onbl-_sx355_-jpg

    Great record!

  38. #37

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    think Wes said he wasnt good enough to play with Trane...no idea where i read that..anyone enlighten.....
    Has anyone been lucky enough to hear John Coltrane's set at the Newport Jazz Festival 1961 featuring Eric Dolphy and Wes Montgomery? (self.Jazz)
    submitted 5 years ago by [deleted]and?amd/or

    Has anyone heard the bootlegs?
    This was the festival where Trane had Eric Dolphy and Wes Montgomery join his band. Historically it's the only time Coltrane ever seriously asked another musician to join his band even though Wes refused to stay.and/or ..
    Trane talked about adding him to the lineup. Wes opted for making AM radio pseudo-jazz instead.




  39. #38

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    Wes or Kenny?-trane-wes-jpg

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxsss
    think Wes said he wasnt good enough to play with Trane...no idea where i read that..anyone enlighten.....
    Has anyone been lucky enough to hear John Coltrane's set at the Newport Jazz Festival 1961 featuring Eric Dolphy and Wes Montgomery? (self.Jazz)
    submitted 5 years ago by [deleted]and?amd/or

    Has anyone heard the bootlegs?
    This was the festival where Trane had Eric Dolphy and Wes Montgomery join his band. Historically it's the only time Coltrane ever seriously asked another musician to join his band even though Wes refused to stay.and/or ..
    Trane talked about adding him to the lineup. Wes opted for making AM radio pseudo-jazz instead.


    I think O read somewhere about it but can't remember where... some book or someone's memoires. I tis like they played together begore occasionally and then Trane decided to call Wes.. but again I can't remember where I read about it and can't be sure

    We never know... we cannot know what was behind the idea of Trane to try Wes in a band.. They have some fundamental basis that seem to be coming from the same roots... they are both in their own way very intensive players and both (in their own way) come from Afrom-American root music.
    With all intensity and energy they both have very balanced thoughtful temperament.

    And still... it is quite possible Wes did not have these extremely demanding aspirations that Trane put into music... Wes could feel that staying in a band of Trane would make him 'fake it'.
    With all respect to other bandmates - personality like Trane is the absolute leader. All his regular bandmantes in osome sense stay 'Trane's musicians' (like all Ingmar Bergman's actors - whatever they do and however great - seem to belongg to his personal world).
    And Wes - with all his humbleness - is a bandleader.


    On the other hand it is quite possible that Trane could feel too that this would be something that might happen in the next life maybe - or if they mat in their teens.

    We never know for sure (if even if we find they both said something about it )
    Last edited by Jonah; 12-16-2019 at 02:20 AM.

  41. #40

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    It's too bad they didn't start a co-operative band back then and trade off leadership on the LPs.

    Then we could have eventually heard Trane shredding on 'Bumpin' on Sunset' and Wes laying down some cool soul octave lines on 'Ascension'.

  42. #41

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    It's Wes all the way for me.

    I find plenty of guitarists demanding to listen to, and understand some of Trane's recordings being described this way, but with his beautiful feel, melodicism, swing, phrasing, etc., I don't find that to even remotely be an issue with Wes, quite the opposite in fact.
    Last edited by MattR; 12-16-2019 at 02:10 AM.

  43. #42

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  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattR
    It's Wes all the way for me.

    I find plenty of guitarists demanding to listen to, and understand some of Trane's recordings being described this way, but with his beautiful feel, melodicism, swing, phrasing, etc., I don't find that to even remotely be an issue with Wes, quite the opposite in fact.
    Well said about Wes and I feel the same; BUT only after I decided I needed to turnoff one-side of my brain, just listen and enjoy and stopped asking myself "how did he do that!".

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by 44lombard
    Favorite KB tracks or solos?





  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    I was reading liner notes by Don DeMichael from Wes' Fingerpickin' CD (Wes' first as a leader- 1957): Below is the part relevant to your post and this thread:

    Montgomery fever soon spread through the jazz community and the fans outdid the critics. Thousand declared that Wes was the greatest of all guitarist, to the implied detriment of such worthies as Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessell,,. But jazz fans - and critics - are like that, always looking for kings, the "best", whatever that means.

    Musicians know better, and if there is anything they detest it's a comparison of one mans' work to another's. Music is not a contest. There are many flowers, of many hues and shapes, in the garden, and who can say a rose is more beautiful than a lily. There's is no need to choose. ENJOY THEM ALL.
    I'm for enjoying them all but I agree with Joe Pass that the three most influential jazz guitarists are Django, Charlie Christian, and Wes Montgomery.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    First it is a bit strange for me to have Wes and Trane in such a coparison together.... Wes is mostly conventional jazz, Trane went much further... but I understand what is meant here anyway

    I repect and admire masters - Kenny Burrell is a true master and individuality... he has something to say with his music, there is always something behind in his playing.
    And when you dig deep into a master like that you can find pure treasures and it will bring hours of joy.. until you hear Wes again.

    Players like Wes are unique -- lots in his playing can be anylized and even questioned... but all together it has something that cannot be explained. I can understand his technique, his approach (there is nothig really coplex in it) but I cannot understand how it works...
    There is somethingin it that comes from very very far and deep.. from some source we cannot trace with reason, and I believe we feel it (and I believe that living in conventional world not everyone would appreciate that experience for a long time)

    there are artists that manage to personify some universal things... they can seem not very versatile, not having very broad technical and artistic range.. but they are so much convinced in what they are doing that it is impossible to resist it.
    Their stubborn dedication to one idea or topic has a bit inhuman nature maybe.
    In that sense Wes is close to Trane...

    And of course for people in general it is common to look for something that they suppose they would be able to do... I mean unconciously.

    People feel uncomfortable when they feel something important is going on which is beyond them...

    Actually.. have you ever had a feeling that even your existance may be disturbing for somene (even if you do not do or say anyhing)... because people feel that your existence just denies their way of living... it's the same thing.
    I was lucky to see Wes in concert and club appearances about 20 times in the mid-late 60s, and I swear, although I'm not a religious or overly spiritual person, Wes had an aura around him when he played, a kind of blue light, along with a great smile and monstrous stage presence. I have enjoyed his recordings over the years, but not a single one comes close to the energy he produced in a live setting. He was also a great gentleman, generous with his time to a teenage jazz guitar freak like me, and I think I caught his attention by requesting his own compositions whenever I could. I also caught Kenny many times, even picked him up at the airport to take him to his hotel and radio interviews when I was involved in producing jazz shows, also a consummate gentleman and superb jazz guitarist, but even he was awed by Wes, as was Jim Hall and Pat Martino. Barney seemed to be the only one who actually was a little envious of the attention Wes got.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    I was lucky to see Wes in concert and club appearances about 20 times in the mid-late 60s, and I swear, although I'm not a religious or overly spiritual person, Wes had an aura around him when he played, a kind of blue light, along with a great smile and monstrous stage presence. I have enjoyed his recordings over the years, but not a single one comes close to the energy he produced in a live setting. He was also a great gentleman, generous with his time to a teenage jazz guitar freak like me, and I think I caught his attention by requesting his own compositions whenever I could. I also caught Kenny many times, even picked him up at the airport to take him to his hotel and radio interviews when I was involved in producing jazz shows, also a consummate gentleman and superb jazz guitarist, but even he was awed by Wes, as was Jim Hall and Pat Martino. Barney seemed to be the only one who actually was a little envious of the attention Wes got.
    lucky? I'll say!



  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxsss
    think Wes said he wasnt good enough to play with Trane...no idea where i read that..anyone enlighten.....
    It says this in Adrian Ingram’s book on Wes Montgomery, but I don’t think he gives a source for it.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    It says this in Adrian Ingram’s book on Wes Montgomery, but I don’t think he gives a source for it.
    My guess is that due to having to support a large family, Wes felt he could make a lot more money making commercial fair instead of jazz like Trane by joining his band (or even making a record together).

  51. #50

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    I'm kind of the many flowers in the garden school but I can't recall one specific thing Kenny Burrell ever played and there are at least 30 things that Wes played that are forever burned into my heart and memory. IMHO, Wes tapped into a stream of music that transcends the instrument. For everyday listening, Paul Desmond with Jim Hall is heaven.