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  1. #1

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    For this week only Peter Farrell is offering for sale ebooks of the George Benson Method....

    Home - Peter Farrell Guitar

    Peter is a good guy, great teacher, and provides great content.. but the price of these books is kind of outrageous in my opinion. They start at £80 and go up to £206... when all is said and done you’re going to spend well over $1,000 USD when purchasing all the volumes..

    Any thoughts on this?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    What thoughts could it be?

    Today "I buy, therefore I am" is the basic motto of an average human being.

  4. #3

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    I thought George Benson is in charge to know and teach “The George Benson Method”, especially for $1000...
    OK I saw the picture, they know each other. So what?

  5. #4

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    Expensive indeed, especially as he does not seem to have employed a proof reader. Vol. 8 is for Advanced Bues, whatever they are...

    On the other hand, George is one of the greatest ever jazz guitar players, and I've been led to believe Peter is also a great player. If you buy an Ibanez Benson model and these books, and lock yourself in the woodshed for a decade, that might well be money well spent.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Vol. 8 is for Advanced Bues, whatever they are...
    Apparently it is Catalan for ‘pimples’, derived from the Latin ‘bubo’.

  7. #6

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    I dropped him a message about the typo, and got a reply from an administrator thanking me, adding they well get it fixed asap.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioxic View Post
    For this week only Peter Farrell is offering for sale ebooks of the George Benson Method....

    Home - Peter Farrell Guitar

    Peter is a good guy, great teacher, and provides great content.. but the price of these books is kind of outrageous in my opinion. They start at £80 and go up to £206... when all is said and done you’re going to spend well over $1,000 USD when purchasing all the volumes..

    Any thoughts on this?
    I saw that too. The prices seem steep to me too.
    Peter knows George. Peter has George's blessing to teach the George Benson method. It's legit. But man, those prices!
    Too rich for my blood.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  9. #8

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    Vol. 8 is for Advanced Bues”

    This is not just like a typo, what everybody can make, for example in this forum.
    Instead this is a very bad message, saying “nobody cares”, no one read this title, no one read the site, no one feels it care.


  10. #9

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    I just checked. I have 30 Truefire courses plus the Tim Lerch course pre-ordered, numerous books, and a subscription to Frank Vignola's Truefire channel. I still play like $hit.

    I don't think these George Benson books would be any help to me. But I still find myself thinking, "What secrets do these books hold? They must contain the magic bullet to warrant these exorbitant prices." Then I come to my senses and realize that I don't need any more books. I need something else like higher quality practice. Lot's of it.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I saw that too. The prices seem steep to me too.
    Peter knows George. Peter has George's blessing to teach the George Benson method. It's legit. But man, those prices!
    Too rich for my blood.
    I was not questioning it is legit. I just feel it is not authentic, it is too cheap commercial attitude to come out with George Benson’s label what we know since half century written by a guy who’s name I know since today 10AM (could be my bad). Also the other bad signs, that no one noticed or cared so far about a typo in a title, and the high price points that the priority is here to produce short term income, instead of establishing value.

    I searched for Peter Farrell, and I liked his playing, still this book serie stinks a bit for me, (IMHO)

  12. #11

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    Gabor, Peter has a high reputation in his own right, and I believe he would make a great teacher. I can't afford his books or his Skype fees, but if I had the money spare then his teaching/books would be a consideration if I wanted to play in the Benson style.

  13. #12
    I've looked at his Facebook group lessons etc, with interaction with Peter. Anyway, I'd curious to know how close this is in structure to his lesson materials? Not cheap, but he seems to have a lot of people interested and willing...

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Gabor, Peter has a high reputation in his own right, and I believe he would make a great teacher. I can't afford his books or his Skype fees, but if I had the money spare then his teaching/books would be a consideration if I wanted to play in the Benson style.
    I’ve tried Peter’s lessons and I think he’s a great teacher. But I think these prices are a little outrageous.. they’re more than any other set of codified lesson materials from some of the best players in the world. From pat Metheny, to mick goodrick, to Tim Miller. Peter’s benefit is that he’s the only person that has GB’s ear so to speak and has learned directly from the man himself... but he’s gouging everyone for the privilege.

    Generally presenting lesson material is about striking a balance between earning money and making it affordable so that people can actually benefit from your teachings. Such ridiculously high prices, coupled with a very obvious spelling error, and the fact that he’s offering it for “one week only”, suggests that this is more about the money than the content or making it available to students at an affordable price.
    Last edited by Dioxic; 11-25-2019 at 01:30 PM.

  15. #14

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    Even though these volumes are huge, they are probably around 5x as expensive as your typical guitar book in terms of cents per page.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioxic View Post
    I’ve tried Peter’s lessons and I think he’s a great teacher. But I think these prices are a little outrageous.. they’re more than any other set of codified lesson materials from some of the best players in the world. From pat Metheny, to mick goodrick, to Tim Miller. Peter’s benefit is that he’s the only person that has GB’s ear so to speak and has learned directly from the man himself... but he’s gouging everyone for the privilege.

    Generally presenting lesson material is about striking a balance between earning money and making it affordable so that people can actually benefit from your teachings. Such ridiculously high prices, coupled with a very obvious spelling error, and the fact that he’s offering it for “one week only”, suggests that this is more about the money than the content or making it available to students at an affordable price.
    There's a marketing strategy that says if you charge a very high price for something a certain segment of the market is going to perceive a greater value in the product than something similar but cheaper. There's an added benefit that few people who buy a high priced product are going to publicly say they don't think the product was worth what they paid. They'd be admitting they made a mistake and other's might judge them as not being very wise. There's also this thing where something is only available for a limited time to create urgency. It's 90% half mental, as a famous American once said, but it apparently works.

    The reality is that probably everything you need to know is available for free on the Internet. However, "free" lessens the perceived value. I plead guilty to this way of thinking and I'm sure Truefire appreciates it.

  17. #16

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    I have been with Peters Facebook lessons for one year now, and he really knows his things. No doubt that he is the right guy to teach Bensons method. Each lesson contains so much information that it takes me many weeks to digest and memorize it.

    But I agree, the prices was many times higher than I expected. And that is just for digital copies, not real paper books. It would have been nice to have the books as an addition to the Facebook lessons, but I am not sure if I think they are worth it.

  18. #17

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    Yes, I'd expect pdfs to be cheaper. Books too, for that matter. Not for me.

  19. #18

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    «Charging $60 or $70 for an eBook sounds pretty absurd, right? And I'm safely guessing is mostly unheard of these days.
    Heck, I think charging $25 for an eBook could even raise a few eyebrows - What do you think though?
    Perhaps one could justify selling their eBook at such a price if they truly believed the content inside to be worth its weight in Gold.
    Maybe, but I don't know. Personally, I've never paid anything more than around $15 for an eBook...
    Anyway, whatever you think, here's the thing:
    eBooks are not meant to cost big bucks.»

    How To Price Your eBook: What To Consider Before Pricing Up Your eBook

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bambus123 View Post
    «Charging $60 or $70 for an eBook sounds pretty absurd, right? And I'm safely guessing is mostly unheard of these days.
    Heck, I think charging $25 for an eBook could even raise a few eyebrows - What do you think though?
    Perhaps one could justify selling their eBook at such a price if they truly believed the content inside to be worth its weight in Gold.
    Maybe, but I don't know. Personally, I've never paid anything more than around $15 for an eBook...
    Anyway, whatever you think, here's the thing:
    eBooks are not meant to cost big bucks.»

    How To Price Your eBook: What To Consider Before Pricing Up Your eBook
    Thats actually the cheapest book. The most expensive one is ~$265 USD... for an eBook...

    not even Barry Harris’ material costs this much

  21. #20

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    The thought just passed my mind that maybe he doesn't want to sell any books...stranger things have happened.

  22. #21

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    I’m really interested in those books because I’m quite sure there are a lot of great concepts to learn .

    But I will never pay this amount of money for ebooks .

    I was expecting something high like a hundred a book but adding everything is quite a budget for sure .

    not questioning peter about his abilities , the guy is a beast , and the only one came that close to GB .

    but for now I’ll pass

  23. #22

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    For $1000 you could probably buy George Benson for half an hour.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Expensive indeed, especially as he does not seem to have employed a proof reader. Vol. 8 is for Advanced Bues, whatever they are...

    On the other hand, George is one of the greatest ever jazz guitar players, and I've been led to believe Peter is also a great player. If you buy an Ibanez Benson model and these books, and lock yourself in the woodshed for a decade, that might well be money well spent.
    Rob...only if you study Bensons CTI period playing..the guitarist..not the singer...
    play well ...
    wolf

  25. #24

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    Seems that it depends also on the personal preferences, objectives and goals, absorptive capacity, talent and maybe age of the student to justify the investment. For some it could be justified, for others less, for others not at all.

    At 67, still trying to squeeze all I can -with not that much success- from emerit professor's Wes Montgomery books I own, keep me busy and make me happy: Mel Bay Presents Wes Montgomery 17.95; Best of Wes Montgomery by Wolf Marshall 22.95; WM Artist Transcriptions for Guitar 17: Mel Bay WM The Early Years 22,95; Mel Bay WM Best of Boss Guitar 14,95; Hal Leonard WM Guitar Anthology 24,99. Money investment: USD 120,79. Time investment: an average ot three/four hours weekly during the last three decades. Rewards: half life of enjoyment.

    Of course I would like to study and incorporate GB into my playing. I own ALL George Benson's material, be it in vynils, cassettes, or CDs. And listen to him since the late 60s.

    So when Farrell's offer emerged I was interested, but being realistic I concluded that I don´t have the life time ahead, money and talent to embark into such intense high level studies.

    That being said, a USD 1000 investment that could change my playing wouldn't scare me, should I decide to take the challenge and stay put studying. So again for me the cost-benefit would depend on each individual and not only related to the cost of the instruction.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by icheme View Post
    I’m really interested in those books because I’m quite sure there are a lot of great concepts to learn .

    But I will never pay this amount of money for ebooks .

    I was expecting something high like a hundred a book but adding everything is quite a budget for sure .

    not questioning peter about his abilities , the guy is a beast , and the only one came that close to GB .

    but for now I’ll pass

    tbh I think all these methods are great marketing thing that is similar to 'Learn Italian in 100 days'... people today are obsessed with an idea that for the money there is always an expert, and a book.. the most comprehensive.
    It seems that when they get interested in something the first thing they do is looking for a book (whatever it is, growing up kids, making a CV etc.)

    there are better or worse methods, more practical or more theoretical approaches etc. but they all have more or less the same basics...

    The problem is often that consumers do not go further than than first 10-15 pages and switch to another method... (I myself felt it too)

    you say ''there are a lot of great concepts to learn ''... of course I never saw the book but I heard GB a lot, he is one of my all -time favourites but I do not remember anything extremely mysterious in what he is doing...
    most of his charm is in groove, phrasing... but what could be those fancy secret concepts that would suddenly enlighten a student?
    We are all more less musicians we have ears (and thanks to youtube also eyes) - what is so especially secret about GB concepts?

    Besides, GB is the name. Very well-known also beyond jazz.
    It is easier to sell GB method than Frank Vignola's I believe.
    But looking at the titles of the volumes we see all the same things that we see anywhere: modes, scales, chords, melodic minor.... etc.


    The only exception is the book about GB technique.


    Disclaimer: I am not against books per se, if I have a chance I enjoy going/playing through different methods just for fun (mostly borrowing from someone) and I do not expect any miracles... just fun to know what good players think about music.

  27. #26

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    Oh, I love books, and have an embarrassing amount of guitar books, dating right through the 20th and 21st centuries, but I haven't studied them all, or ever intended to study them. I just like collecting books. But although I'm curious about these Benson books, I will not buy them for two reasons, one being financial, the other being that they are not books, they are pdf files. I've downloaded so-called eBooks before, and have never found them satisfactory in any degree, and will not download any more. Best wishes to messers Farrel and Benson, nonetheless.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Oh, I love books, and have an embarrassing amount of guitar books, dating right through the 20th and 21st centuries, but I haven't studied them all, or ever intended to study them. I just like collecting books. But although I'm curious about these Benson books, I will not buy them for two reasons, one being financial, the other being that they are not books, they are pdf files. I've downloaded so-called eBooks before, and have never found them satisfactory in any degree, and will not download any more. Best wishes to messers Farrel and Benson, nonetheless.
    I should admit that I love published materials too. I love just serfing through methods and also playing through written out arrangements sometimes or different real/fake books.
    Probably it is classical background that keeps my interest in the books.

  29. #28

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    There have been other players that were close enough to Benson to call him a mentor, Mark Whitfield and Ritchie Hart are two that come to mind, probably more that I'm unaware of. And Benson does have instructional material out, some excellent videotapes etc..

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    There have been other players that were close enough to Benson to call him a mentor, Mark Whitfield and Ritchie Hart are two that come to mind, probably more that I'm unaware of. And Benson does have instructional material out, some excellent videotapes etc..
    I think there is a bunch of players that I would even call 'Bensonians' - like those you mentioned + Bobby Broom, Russel Malone...

  31. #30

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    Book is made of content, not of print on paper, or digital data.
    Guess you are after ergonomics, ease of use, that is what you are not satisfied?

    As far as selling scheme, if it was $15 per book, in 2 days, even I who have no interest in it whatsoever, would have it downloaded from somewhere, for free. Maybe that is more to real reason for prices. Who is really interested, will pay.

    How many Benson copies and Benson method teachers (pupil becomes teacher) do we really need? Rather small number is enough, I'd say, both for us and for Peter Farrell.
    ^ ^ ^
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    v v v

  32. #31

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    Whoa, I've been waiting for these books for a long time so really happy to finally see they are finished! But these prices :O. I understand that they may be goldmines but more than $200 for a single ebook?

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    There have been other players that were close enough to Benson to call him a mentor, Mark Whitfield and Ritchie Hart are two that come to mind, probably more that I'm unaware of. And Benson does have instructional material out, some excellent videotapes etc..
    I have the 2001 Hal Leonard Book Best of George Benson by Wolf Marshall. A sample of his different epochs.

    Book plus CD USD 22,95.

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcb View Post
    Rewards: half life of enjoyment.
    What a beautiful way to put it.

    Peter Farrell is highly regarded and has done something here that has probably taken him thousands of hours to develop. The potential market may only be 100-200 people world-wide. What's his time worth? It may be too expensive for some, but unlike marketing a widget it's difficult to determine retail price.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  35. #34

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    The other question what raises, if one want so desperately learn and play like Benson, and she/he has the minimal required ear, rhythmic sense what makes this idea even reasonable (so the student will have valuable progress)... well, this person do not need the “book”. , especially nowadays, where Bensons any recordings are available for almost everyone, plus tons of live videos, plus tons of transcriptions.

    Going a big further, it seems to be a consensus on that written material is less valuable, and sounding audio what matters and efficient when learning jazz.

    The title promises and sends the message you can get closer to your hero for free. I mean you must pay the $$$, but you do not have to mine and ingrain the miracle with your hard musical work investing thousands of hours. This message is usual in the marketing and false. Actually the high price serves to lower your doubt in case you are hesitating.

  36. #35

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    The economics of this don’t make much sense to me. The prices will deter the majority of less ‘committed’ buyers. If the books were priced at (say) $20 each and made available permanently, he would be guaranteed to make much more money eventually, given people’s propensity for buying loads more instruction books than they need (!).

    Incidentally I could not see anything on the site that says they are only available for one week as the OP said.

    I like Benson, but I don’t feel any great need to play like him. If I ever do, I will just study the ‘Billies Bounce’ solo he did (with Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Billy Cobham), that one has got everything you need, great lines, and chord soloing too.

    I’ll never take up Benson picking though, too old to change my ways now! (I don’t know if that is a required step in these books).

  37. #36

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    These are the "on sale" prices ??

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    These are the "on sale" prices ??
    yeah for one week only. Next week the prices go back to normal.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    There have been other players that were close enough to Benson to call him a mentor, Mark Whitfield and Ritchie Hart are two that come to mind, probably more that I'm unaware of. And Benson does have instructional material out, some excellent videotapes etc..
    Henry Johnson is another one. Benson taught him. But Johnson doesn't teach 'the Benson method' (of picking / playing). He does have some TrueFire courses, though. And there is footage of his right hand, so you get a good sense of that. (He also plays with just thumb and fingers at times, as George does.)

    https://truefire.com/jazz-guitar-les...ressions/c1231
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  40. #39

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    As I recall, the most I have spent for guitar books are the three books of the Mick Goodrick "Mr. Goodchord" series. They were something along the lines of $35 apiece brand new. Somebody mentioned liking printed books because he could "serf through" them. For me, this particular series is perfect for that. Pick one up, flip to a page, and just play with it to see what I can make from that page.

    I have many books that are now out of print and am glad that I have them. I also have a number of PDF books and don't mind working with those. However, that is simply not the same as having a printed book to flip through, especially when it comes to skipping forward and backward, book marking pages to get back to as I go, or just flipping it open to a page or even just paging through it for quick ideas and inspiration.

    As for the price of the Benson books, I guess if he is your hero, then maybe springing for the books might be a consideration. Each of us determines what a thing is worth to us, and then act accordingly. I certainly would not think less of a person who felt that at the price, these ebooks are a bargain. What is right for me has no bearing on what is right for another. Some folks thought I was being silly with my money when I bought the "Mr. Goodchord" series. Seeing what they go for now, I suspect such folks would probably change their opinion.

    Tony

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
    I certainly would not think less of a person who felt that at the price, these ebooks are a bargain.
    Me neither, and I hope no one else here would either.

  42. #41

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    About books. I love them too. For music books, I think spiral bound is the best way to go: they lay open on a music stand (or table). That's a big plus. Making them spiral bound increases the price but if it's a good book, it's worth it.

    If you get a book of pdf files, you can print them and make your own spiral binding. It's a bit of work, and also the cost of printing and the binding too. But if there's a book you want to work in for a long time, it's worth it.

    I wish "Patterns for Jazz" were spiral bound.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  43. #42

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    The private lessons prices also seem to be about double the price of most top new york players, considering you can arrange lessons with Lund, Moreno, Bernstein etc. for about 100$..

  44. #43

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    My kids started a lemonade stand this summer. I asked my 8 year old how much he was going to charge for a glass of lemonade, and he said $20.

    When I told him I thought that was a bit expensive, he replied "I only gotta sell one glass."

    Joking aside, if anybody's qualified to teach Benson's method it'd be Peter. As for overpriced, it's only overpriced if nobody's buying it. Personally, I have enough problems sounding like myself.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  45. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    My kids started a lemonade stand this summer. I asked my 8 year old how much he was going to charge for a glass of lemonade, and he said $20.

    When I told him I thought that was a bit expensive, he replied "I only gotta sell one glass."

    Joking aside, if anybody's qualified to teach Benson's method it'd be Peter. As for overpriced, it's only overpriced if nobody's buying it. Personally, I have enough problems sounding like myself.
    Sounding like yourself is the goal! So you’re there!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post

    As for the price of the Benson books, I guess if he is your hero, then maybe springing for the books might be a consideration. Each of us determines what a thing is worth to us, and then act accordingly. I certainly would not think less of a person who felt that at the price, these ebooks are a bargain.
    Tony
    Agree, and in general it is not a good attitude thinking less of a person who values something differently (this case more) especially if it is related with learning or music. I do not think anyone thought that.

    Many of posts mention the high price, btw I do not have problem with the price. I have problem with the message, and the concept and actually the price fits in that. I would not repeat my arguments, but as you exactly mention this is for people who’s hero is Benson, with other words this sells on Benson’ s wind. To be clear Benson is my hero, if I have to name the 5 greatest guitarist, he is in.

    My most important doubt is the lack of audio. We all agree that listening is the more important thing when learning the feel. Benson’s greatness is how to express joy and sadness with simple tools, what would mean nothing from other musician, but transformed to the deepest by Benson. Sometimes he just pickin one single-note for two bars then ends it with two note, but what a groove. Now how to teach that in standard notation and explaining commentaries? Also we all know pentatons, and it is not too hard to find out how and where Benson applies them, but this is not the “recipe” to read this information as text, and see as standard notation.

    And a final thought, when talking about Benson, blues which is integral part his expression, also can not be learned from books. I try it since decades, still no success

  47. #46

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    Well, they've changed Bues to Blues, so they are listening :-)

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post

    I wish "Patterns for Jazz" were spiral bound.
    You can still cut it, then spiral bound.

  49. #48

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    My kids started a lemonade stand this summer. I asked my 8 year old how much he was going to charge for a glass of lemonade, and he said $20.
    Excuse me an off-topic... a few times I ran across this 'kids running a lemonade stand' - it is a tradition in the States that kids do that during vacation in the summer like some sort of business game or something like that?
    And the lemonade is home-made?

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Excuse me an off-topic... a few times I ran across this 'kids running a lemonade stand' - it is a tradition in the States that kids do that during vacation in the summer like some sort of business game or something like that?
    And the lemonade is home-made?
    Yeah, summer trad. Usually just a powder mix...$0.50 a cup, in my hood if we know you I'll tell the kids to fill it up short and then you can come by the house to "top it off."
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor View Post
    You can still cut it, then spiral bound.
    I know. I'm considering that. But I'm worried I might screw it up!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola