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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    Ok - ok...

    And I am paid by Randy Vincent and Frank Vignola to push the competitor out...

    I think it is time for me to unsubscribe from this thread.

    Sad that what could be probably a good material for real overviews and work turned into a sales campaign.
    Yeah, I see what you mean regarding some of the comments seeming like paid testimonials...

    I'm the one that created the thread & started the whole conversation in the first place. From what I've seen of the small bit of material I have so far, for what it covers, it does offer some unique & actionable approaches.

    I think all of this stuff is out there in different sources, this is just an attempt to compile it from A to Z (I say that not haven't seen the other books, but if they are as well written as what I have, then I stand by the statement).

    Ultimately--it's a method book. How many jazz related books do all of us have? And how many of them have we actually worked through, front to back, and internalized?

    These materials will only take you as far as you're willing to commit.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by icheme
    I'm not paid to do this, I just told my story.

    I was concerned by the price at first, but I like to try. this is just me.

    if the method was not good, I would say so, but it's not the case, it's great in my opinion, and I haven't seen teach the benson thing like this.
    Not to be disrespectful, but your post history is almost exclusively this thread. It's kind of hard to believe that you aren't affiliated with the book or Peter somehow...

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioxic
    Not to be disrespectful, but your post history is almost exclusively this thread. It's kind of hard to believe that you aren't affiliated with the book or Peter somehow...
    I don't it as being disrespectful, you are expressing your feeling, I can understand that. I'm not affiliated, you are free to believe me or not!
    I've posted a long time ago a video of me playing a wes tune, it's true that I don't participate often in the forum, but I often read it.

  5. #104

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    Sooooo..... let’s say this is all a set up. Paid shills for Peter. He sells 10 or 20 books to unwitting amateur players, grosses $2000 to $4000 tops, then the bad reviews come in, because of course, nothing could be worth that kind of investment, sales fall off to zero and Peter retires to, say, Brazil and starts a new scam. Might be true.

    Or, maybe they are just trying to encourage people to take a leap of faith and support a valuable teacher who has done some amazing work. The guy has chops, I have some of his video lessons, my time is valuable, I dig Benson, and I will buy a book or two when they come out, maybe more.

    The world could use a lot less suspicion. He’s a jazz guitarist, fer crissake. If he wanted to scam people, there are easier ways and better, more affluent targets than a bunch of amateur guitarists, one would think. Although, he is living in Brazil, beyond the reach of angry jazz guitar mobs with torches. Pretty clever. You may be right!

  6. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by yebdox
    Sooooo..... let’s say this is all a set up. Paid shills for Peter. He sells 10 or 20 books to unwitting amateur players, grosses $2000 to $4000 tops, then the bad reviews come in, because of course, nothing could be worth that kind of investment, sales fall off to zero and Peter retires to, say, Brazil and starts a new scam. Might be true.

    Or, maybe they are just trying to encourage people to take a leap of faith and support a valuable teacher who has done some amazing work. The guy has chops, I have some of his video lessons, my time is valuable, I dig Benson, and I will buy a book or two when they come out, maybe more.

    The world could use a lot less suspicion. He’s a jazz guitarist, fer crissake. If he wanted to scam people, there are easier ways and better, more affluent targets than a bunch of amateur guitarists, one would think. Although, he is living in Brazil, beyond the reach of angry jazz guitar mobs with torches. Pretty clever. You may be right!

    I didn’t mean to suggest that what he‘s offering isn’t of value, or that it isn’t actually what it claims to be, just that the review from icheme in particular seemed suspicious.

    It’s less a question of whether he’s trying to falsely represent something (again, I didn’t mean to suggest that), and more a question of is this an honest review, or an attempt at defending the pricing from someone who has some sort of financial stake in seeing the books sell; the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

    Peter has attempted to (and perhaps succeeded in) creating a one stop shop comprehensive resource, approach, and methodology to teach someone how to play jazz in the style of George Benson, as well as how to play music more broadly.

    A different view on the whole pricing thing is that these are meant to be more along the lines of textbooks for serious pedagogical study. In that light, these prices aren’t that ridiculous when you consider what students pay for textbooks these days.

    On the one hand, I think the prices are steep, but on the other hand, if there was a literal school of George Benson, the prices would be inline with textbooks at most other institutions and pursuits of study.

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioxic
    Yeah, I see what you mean regarding some of the comments seeming like paid testimonials...

    I'm the one that created the thread & started the whole conversation in the first place. From what I've seen of the small bit of material I have so far, for what it covers, it does offer some unique & actionable approaches.

    I think all of this stuff is out there in different sources, this is just an attempt to compile it from A to Z (I say that not haven't seen the other books, but if they are as well written as what I have, then I stand by the statement).

    Ultimately--it's a method book. How many jazz related books do all of us have? And how many of them have we actually worked through, front to back, and internalized?

    These materials will only take you as far as you're willing to commit.
    It is all true I believe ... more or less.


    I just do not like when things like that turns too much into sales project.
    Everybody needs to pay their bills but if you do things for love you do it for love even when you manage to earn with it. (Not the otehr way around).
    It is not necessary to turn everything into a deal (by the way the fact that it is about GB may is not coincidence, almost everything he did was about sales - sometimes he goes too far to meet the expectaions of any potential buyer).
    And sales people today often use tools too primitive to take it seriously...

  8. #107

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    there you go!

    I'm a music education books freak


    The George Benson Method-img_2976-jpg

  9. #108

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    Some are neurotic music book hoarders....


  10. #109

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    For $1000 I can sell you a course on how to break your addiction to jazz instruction books.

  11. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    For $1000 I can sell you a course on how to break your addiction to jazz instruction books.
    Does it come in book form??

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    For $1000 I can sell you a course on how to break your addiction to jazz instruction books.
    that's a good one hahaaaa!!!







  13. #112

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    I didn’t mean to suggest that what he‘s offering isn’t of value, or that it isn’t actually what it claims to be, just that the review from icheme in particular seemed suspicious.

    It’s less a question of whether he’s trying to falsely represent something (again, I didn’t mean to suggest that), and more a question of is this an honest review, or an attempt at defending the pricing from someone who has some sort of financial stake in seeing the books sell; the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

    Peter has attempted to (and perhaps succeeded in) creating a one stop shop comprehensive resource, approach, and methodology to teach someone how to play jazz in the style of George Benson, as well as how to play music more broadly.

    A different view on the whole pricing thing is that these are meant to be more along the lines of textbooks for serious pedagogical study. In that light, these prices aren’t that ridiculous when you consider what students pay for textbooks these days.

    On the one hand, I think the prices are steep, but on the other hand, if there was a literal school of George Benson, the prices would be inline with textbooks at most other institutions and pursuits of study.
    I, perhaps like you, tend to be suspicious of people and potential scams, as well. I also, perhaps like you, tend to think and develop my ideas out loud, often to my disadvantage.

    I think you have reached a correct evaluation. Good comparison with college level text material costs, or at least allowing for that potential in value. Take the income potential of a $125 Bio 101 textbook and compare that to a handful of books prepared mostly by one author, targeting a few hundred, maybe a couple of thousand individuals in the world at most, who might want to study Benson's technique. Which might be considered the greater labor of love and dedication to craft, vs. income potential from a captured market?

    This is a community (of sorts). At times, I have to remind myself to think things out before I react to uncivilized commentary (and there is that in every community.) I might suggest that you simply take a look at Peter's videos and see if it motivates you, and how much you are willing to spend for a few shortcuts that someone else took years to uncover. There will still be work, guaranteed. Perhaps that is the source of upset for many. No matter how much you pay, you still have work to do, but Peter (and nearly all great players) would never promise that you don't.

    I like your thoughtful assessment in the long run. I just think we should leave suspicion out til the very last. We are not dealing with Wall Street in this forum, just guys and gals who love guitar. Maybe that should be a requirement for elected office

  14. #113

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  15. #114

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    Maybe in purpose, just for the guys that seeks for spelling mistakes and not the content.

  16. #115

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    The tricks he shows in those two consecutive videos are fantastic. Playing in front, in and behind the changes, relative Major/minor, dominant and melodic and harmonic minor (which invites all other friends to the party) is GIAN step toward playing maturity.

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikostep
    Maybe in purpose, just for the guys that seeks for spelling mistakes and not the content.
    I thought he was laughing at the hard sell in the video.

  18. #117

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    Here Peter explains the content of the books and why they have organized them the way they have, and then goes on to show what Benson calls the secret of the two chords, a way to visualize the fretboard alternating between a major chord and the relative minor chord up the neck. Here he shows Cmaj7 (3rd fret) - Am7 (5th fret) - Cmaj7 (8th fret) - Am7 (10th fret) and Am7 (12th fret) and how to use them to connect the fretboard

    He even talks a little about the Benson picking method saying that it is not the right hand that is the most important for Bensons technique, but the combination with the left.

    He also shows some lines and what he calls chord arpeggios which compliments each of the major/minor chords above. This is actually almost the same as he has showed in one of the first paid Facebook lessons that I have been following (for a year now)



  19. #118

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    I went ahead and pulled the trigger on Book 1 (figured start at the beginning) the price is REALLY steep especially given the USD conversion (ouch!) but I guess it is what it is. I'll get working thru this in 2020 and we'll see if it merits further volumes....I'm also going to "try" and declare 2020 the year I buy no other guitar/music instructional books....the library has reached a point where there is no way in my remaining lifetime I'll be able to give them the proper due, that's a good problem I guess

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambus123
    Here Peter explains the content of the books and why they have organized them the way they have, and then goes on to show what Benson calls the secret of the two chords, a way to visualize the fretboard alternating between a major chord and the relative minor chord up the neck. Here he shows Cmaj7 (3rd fret) - Am7 (5th fret) - Cmaj7 (8th fret) - Am7 (10th fret) and Am7 (12th fret) and how to use them to connect the fretboard

    He even talks a little about the Benson picking method saying that it is not the right hand that is the most important for Bensons technique, but the combination with the left.

    He also shows some lines and what he calls chord arpeggios which compliments each of the major/minor chords above. This is actually almost the same as he has showed in one of the first paid Facebook lessons that I have been following (for a year now)


    I really do not want to cause bad feelings to anyone who knows Peter Farrell, or to Peter personally. I also emphasize I am talking exclusively about this video and not about Peter Farrell's work in general (what I definitely do not know, and just trying to get familiar with, motivated by your recommendation) .. and also supposedly it turns out my posts in the past, that Benson is one of my hero...

    ...but guys, either you are so polite and gentleman, or biased blind (hopefully the first)...
    someone must to say: Is this a parody?

    Peter is soooo unprepared in this video and so incapable to transmit any message, he can not even find the words, has trouble to assemble meaningful sentences, does not even know the numbers of the chapters... Someone must ask: For God's sake he is positioned here as a teacher, who's, most basic responsibility to be prepared, and have the skill to meaningfully explain things, shortest time as the student can invent himself...

    OK, I know this is a sales video (contrary its title) and I have no problem with sales, But again, it is the worst sales I ever seen, the length and unpreparedness and demonstrates a total lack of authenticity and authority.

    Well after 32 minutes literal nothing we start get know the "secret" (still using approx 10x more sentences as necessary) that major and its relative minor can be utilized in similar contexts. Wow! Maybe I am wrong but is not this what we probably discovering at somewhere the beginning of the journey by ourselfs?

    I understand if someone find those words overstatements, again those words are about the quoted video exclusively. The video was posted, someone must talk about it...

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Some are neurotic music book hoarders....

    Pictures of Ted Greene's apartment look much the same. Unlike me, I think he had read them all and worked through them. By comparison my stack of unread instructional material is modest. I feel much better!

  22. #121

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    Wow, as ridiculous as my book collection is its not that out of control (yet) :-) heheheh

  23. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    I really do not want to cause bad feelings to anyone who knows Peter Farrell, or to Peter personally. I also emphasize I am talking exclusively about this video and not about Peter Farrell's work in general (what I definitely do not know, and just trying to get familiar with, motivated by your recommendation) .. and also supposedly it turns out my posts in the past, that Benson is one of my hero...

    ...but guys, either you are so polite and gentleman, or biased blind (hopefully the first)...
    someone must to say: Is this a parody?

    Peter is soooo unprepared in this video and so incapable to transmit any message, he can not even find the words, has trouble to assemble meaningful sentences, does not even know the numbers of the chapters... Someone must ask: For God's sake he is positioned here as a teacher, who's, most basic responsibility to be prepared, and have the skill to meaningfully explain things, shortest time as the student can invent himself...

    OK, I know this is a sales video (contrary its title) and I have no problem with sales, But again, it is the worst sales I ever seen, the length and unpreparedness and demonstrates a total lack of authenticity and authority.

    Well after 32 minutes literal nothing we start get know the "secret" (still using approx 10x more sentences as necessary) that major and its relative minor can be utilized in similar contexts. Wow! Maybe I am wrong but is not this what we probably discovering at somewhere the beginning of the journey by ourselfs?

    I understand if someone find those words overstatements, again those words are about the quoted video exclusively. The video was posted, someone must talk about it...
    Don't worry, we all have our opinions. But, don't base is on just one video. He was pissed of by people trashing him and his efforts.
    Try with this video, maybe you'll find it more interesting.

    A post by The George Benson Method on Today

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikostep
    Try with this video, maybe you'll find it more interesting.

    A post by The George Benson Method on Today
    This is a shame. This is literally the Walt Disney version of jazz and Benson. Throwing random bensonish lines while impersonating Darth Vader? Really? Is this the way to get know the legacy of blues, the essence of soul and the artistry of George Benson? Are we going to teach students, that nothing valuable content matters, just the empty shell? (form I mean)

    Even we completely disregard the Darth Vader thing, it is so shallow, and striped out of soul, what would the quintessence of Benson. Carrying the message, that no real content, feeling and soul matters, it is enough just to fake it, Someone should warn Benson to stop this guy, or else people will start identify Benson associated with this picture.

    I give up on this.

  25. #124

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    I have serious doubt now that you have some extremely bad feelings about Peter himself and his teaching.
    If this is "shallow, stripped out version with random bensonish lines" to you really don't get the point and don't hear one of the most important and most neglected thing in jazz (and music at all). That is connection with the rhythm in a specific way that he demonstrates so well here in this video. It is not tatatata connection, it's much deeper and organic. Can you hear it while he is playing and singing at the same time?
    If this is shallow to you than you are either musical genious (so this is child game for you) or you are totally missing the point.
    I'm really not trying to bash you, I apologise if some if my sentences are rude, but man, wake up. This is pure gold.

  26. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikostep
    I have serious doubt now that you have some extremely bad feelings about Peter himself and his teaching.
    I do not know neither Peter neither his teaching. I wrote about the videos, and the minimum what anyone can say about those, is "confusing". I really do not want interpret and listen and understand Benson as collection of secret golden tricks, and neither as Darth Vader, this is not the way. And of course I am not comparing Peter playing abilities to myself, please do not go into this.

    You wrote "pure gold", and I agree, analyzing Benson (as analyzing many other great artists) could be pure gold, and all the legacy on the hundreds of recordings are also pure gold.

    I think I made some point, also answered to your thoghts, from now it would be just repeting those, what I really do not want.
    Last edited by Gabor; 12-30-2019 at 06:57 AM.

  27. #126

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    I'm not comparing you with Peter or anybody else.
    What is confusing you in these videos?

  28. #127

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    To be fair to Peter, the written material and facebook broadcasts do have a well thought-out logical progression, and as for dressing up as Darth Vader, well I think that he was just having fun which is why we play in the first place is it not?

  29. #128

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    If we always expect the world (or people) to appear a certain way before we can engage with or learn from it/them, we will be waiting a long time for the opportunity to grow.

    Clearly, Peter’s style of teaching does not motivate Gabor to learn or fit his ideas of proper respect for the art of jazz guitar (if I recall correctly, he also considers the music of Pat Metheny a dead end). Fair enough and to each his own.

    We could leave it at that and allow those of us who have experienced Peter’s lessons to find fulfillment in them without needing to justify our attention or investment. There is no one way and no one method for everyone. I personally appreciate whatever shortcuts are available. Sometimes my investment has yielded poor returns, other times, lesson material has indeed, proven to be “gold”. I’m happy with the return on my investment with Peter. Criticizing him for the way he presents and markets the fruits of his labor is pointless.

    Do your own work and market it it anyway you like. He owes us nothing and it’s clear that the complaining in this thread is only coming from those unwilling to take a chance on investing in Peter’s material, not from those with actual experience.

  30. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by yebdox
    If we always expect the world (or people) to appear a certain way before we can engage with or learn from it/them, we will be waiting a long time for the opportunity to grow.

    Clearly, Peter’s style of teaching does not motivate Gabor to learn or fit his ideas of proper respect for the art of jazz guitar (if I recall correctly, he also considers the music of Pat Metheny a dead end). Fair enough and to each his own.

    We could leave it at that and allow those of us who have experienced Peter’s lessons to find fulfillment in them without needing to justify our attention or investment. There is no one way and no one method for everyone. I personally appreciate whatever shortcuts are available. Sometimes my investment has yielded poor returns, other times, lesson material has indeed, proven to be “gold”. I’m happy with the return on my investment with Peter. Criticizing him for the way he presents and markets the fruits of his labor is pointless.

    Do your own work and market it it anyway you like. He owes us nothing and it’s clear that the complaining in this thread is only coming from those unwilling to take a chance on investing in Peter’s material, not from those with actual experience.
    Careful reader. All agree except "Criticizing him for the way he presents and markets the fruits of his labor is pointless." If this would be true, then adoring him would be also pointless. I think it is not pointless to express some thought, especially if that is not fitting to the mainstream. I would like to believe style and the individual are not two different separate things, actually the two are identical. The style ("way") is the individual itself, as it is the personality's expression form to the outer world.
    Last edited by Gabor; 01-04-2020 at 10:06 AM.