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  1. #1

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    Apologies if this has been posted already.


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    haha -- that's some great stuff Rob!

  4. #3

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    Wowza! Cros tells a story well, doesn't he?

    I'd like to see that movie.

  5. #4

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    his brains flowing out of his nose?
    put down the pipe David

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon View Post
    his brains flowing out of his nose?
    put down the pipe David

    lol, don't hold your breath.

  7. #6

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    crosby was a known coltrane advocate early on..the byrds managers ran world pacific records...they had ravi shankar and jazz acts on the label....when the byrds first toured, mcguinn rigged up an early cassette player to an amp..and they blasted trane and ravi shankar for the whole tour ride...tranes track india with eric dolphy is the genesis of the byrds eight miles high...the lead line is from trane!..and the solo was mcguinns attempt at playin like trane (and crosbys imitation ^ hah) on an electric 12 string guitar

    hope to see that crosby docu-bio in next few days..been lookin forward to it

    i've also heard stories of trane continuing to play while offstage before..so hes tellin true stories

    say what you will about him, crosbys been around some major scenes...

    and im sure elvin was higher than he was!!!


    cheers

    ps- also notice when crosby recreates scene ^...hes miming playin' a straight horn..ala coltranes soprano!!!
    Last edited by neatomic; 11-11-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #7

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    Great post, neatomic. New info in there for me.

  9. #8

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    just funnin' around neatomic

  10. #9

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    Nice to see the video.

    David Crosby has his issues, but he has always been very intelligent, a great singer and a great songsmith.

    One of my absolute favorite songs is Guinevere, both the song recorded by CSNY and the version recorded by Miles Davis. It sure sounds influenced by the modal jazz of the 60's.
    “Without music, life would be a mistake”--Friedrich Nietzsche

    Current lineup: Gibson ES-135 ('02), Peerless Sunset, Harmony Brilliant Cutaway ('64), Godin 5th Avenue, Alvarez AC60 A/E classical, Kay K37 ('56), Fender Squier VM Jazz bass, several ukes. Amps: Fishman Artist, Fender SCXD, Pignose 7-100.

  11. #10

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    I didn't know Miles had recorded Guinevere. Thanks, Jeff!

  12. #11

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    Miles’ version is quite faithful to the original. I had the Miles recording long before I heard the CSN one as it happens.


  13. #12

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    miles was also instrumental in getting the byrds signed to columbia!! he knew crosby and management..and put in a call to give them an audition session!

    crosby has always used strange tunings...not your average g or d tunings...but his own made up ones...he was definitely inspired by modal jazz, indian music & drones in general


    cheers

  14. #13

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    Don't wanna be the wet blanket here. I really enjoy Crosby's writing----someone mentioned Guinevere and I think it masterful.

    I was AT Woodstock----I preface my comments on Mr. Crosby et al by saying that b/c it ties in w/my main point. A lot of the '60s rockers talk a good game about Trane and Miles, etc----but they never put in the work those guys did. And I don't mean Garcia or Santana.

    The reason I broach Woodstock and that I was there? Yeah, I was there and 15 and stoned!!

    WXPN, a local Philly station, in August played the Woodstock music as it went down. Butterfield/Buzzy---killin'; Canned Heat as I remembered; Sly Stone for sure---Santana sounded like talented kids (not a bad thing). But a lot of the one-chord jams by many bands professing a Trane influence were painfully out of tune and, well, painful.

    Do I blame Coltrane for this? Hell no, not any more than I'd blame his 'disciples' who play long, boring solos w/o putting in the time he did studying the masters and playing standards. At least they can PLAY, though.

    The End...

  15. #14

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    Joe, nobody put in the work Trane did...Crosby was in another world, but he recognised genius when he saw it.

    When I was 15 I had a book of David Crosby's music, with all the weird tunings he used. I was too young to figure it all out, but I was impressed with his quasi-impressionist harmonic language in what was loosely labelled as folk rock. A most underrated guitarist in my opinion, but far from in the traditional soloist sense. He contributed to the background vibe.

    PS Enjoying the Miles version of Guinevere!

  16. #15

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    yes rob...same can be said for his vocal talents..may not be the strongest lead vocal..but as a harmony vocalist, one of the all time best in the rock field...in byrds, clark and mcguinn would sing unison, leaving crosby to harmonize the high lines without regard to strict intervals...he'd go where the spirit took him..and many times his high parts are better than the melody line...

    up there with art garfunkel for high harmony voices

    cheers

  17. #16

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    I remember Cros' altered tunings.

    Are we certain that they weren't really Joni Mitchell's tunings? (due to polio?)

  18. #17

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    crosbys tuning for guinnevere is E-B-D-G-A-D (low to high) also used on deja vu

    he and young joni mitchell were romantically involved after he was already successful..but he claims her tunings were already fully formed before they met...no doubt they influenced each other

    crosby was also a huge influence on michael hedges

    his fave trick was to have his acoustics made or modded with 12th fret neck joints

    cheers

  19. #18

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    ...and he still hasn't cut his hair

  20. #19

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    I watched the movie a few days ago. What amazed me was how good he sounds after all that... um... livin'.

  21. #20

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    David shouldn’t be underestimated...

  22. #21

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    ^^^ Croz's son James on piano.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  23. #22

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  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Great video.
    Absolutely! But what a difficult personality. He had conflicts with nearly everyone, including his long-term best friend Graham Nash. Can you imagine? I have always had weak spot for Graham Nash since he was a member of the Hollies and later seeing his fabulous photography exhibition "The Graham Nash Collection".

  25. #24

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    Beautiful yeah ........
    (the vid)

    his is son plays a great solo

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rictroll View Post


    David shouldn’t be underestimated...

    Really liked his old scat singing, but god he was "pitchy" as hell there, couldn't finish listening.

  27. #26

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    Sure, but give the guy a break. He's beyond his best, but he's earned the right to be a little "pitchy".

  28. #27

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    Has Crosby done anything remotely relevant since CSN&Y? That's a 49 year gap to live on just a reputation, and a bad one at that.

  29. #28

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  30. #29

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    I do not get it. Was Trane really in that toilet, or Crosby was just trippin'?
    If Trane really was there, why was he and what was he trying to achieve?
    I mean, what job one could possibly finish, in toilette, while playing sax?
    Even if not playing, with sax hanging of his neck?
    Maybe Trane was just wondering around club, scaring and annoying people with those squeaking sounds?

    ... Ha, there's someone ... take this MF ... Sqeeeaak!!! ... Lets's see. is there someone in toilet ... BAM!!! SQUEEEAAAAK!!!! ... next time you will think twice before going to piss ...
    ^ ^ ^
    <<< My BlogSpot Page >>>
    v v v

  31. #30

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    Trane was notorious for practicing on breaks, so the bathroom was probably the only place he could shed when he was off the bandstand.

  32. #31

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    I remember reading a biography of Trane some 40 years ago, which also mentioned his leaving the bandstand while still playing and go into the men's room. I'll give Crosby the benefit of the doubt.

  33. #32

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    elvin was taking his solo drum feature of the set....(which could go on for a bit)...trane walks off stage (as musicians often did) ...but still has the fire to play..but it ain't an elvin solo if tranes playing along..so he went somewhere where he could continue blowin' w/o upstaging elvins solo..

    not a difficult premise..and he was known to do it often....

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 11-14-2019 at 05:47 PM. Reason: sp-

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Joe, nobody put in the work Trane did...Crosby was in another world, but he recognised genius when he saw it.

    When I was 15 I had a book of David Crosby's music, with all the weird tunings he used. I was too young to figure it all out, but I was impressed with his quasi-impressionist harmonic language in what was loosely labelled as folk rock. A most underrated guitarist in my opinion, but far from in the traditional soloist sense. He contributed to the background vibe.

    PS Enjoying the Miles version of Guinevere!
    I wasn't faulting Crosby---and I love that he (and Joni Mitchell) did those freaky tunings and chords.

    I was commenting on how much of the other music just doesn't hold up. Like I said I was there, and it was exciting at 15----hell, I almost got laid (LOL). But outside of John Sebastian, Sly, Canned Heat, Butterfield and a few others a lot of the music and musicians were truly awful---hearing it 50 years down the road. Janis IMO is unlistenable, her band was alright. I never heard anything in Grace Slick, but she had her fans and that's cool. But those one-chord out-of-tune-and-ideas jams by group after group----forget it. I mean I was a rocker and blueser and these people were my world at 15, you know? Of course Hendrix holds up, and actually had the most in common with Trane as far as innovating on an instrument. And Buzzy Feiten was, is, and will die a badass.

    It was the times: sex, drugs and rock and roll. Sure glad I grew up and away from THAT. Blues, any day; James Brown---the great black musics (that the white groups---not C,S&N---were ripping off anyway) any day and I bow deeply.

    But that other schnizzle----never touch the stuff...

    (And I'm sure you meant Joel)

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    Has Crosby done anything remotely relevant since CSN&Y? That's a 49 year gap to live on just a reputation, and a bad one at that.
    He was always the weakest link in terms of songwriting compared to the other three, who were quite strong. But his voice worked well with the group, they needed him for that. And he could play rhythm guitar OK while Stills and Young jammed.

  36. #35

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    he tells coltrane stories better than stills, young and nash tho..so there!! hah

    cheers

  37. #36

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    I can't agree. I found it to be irritating with his shouting, animated and exaggerated gestures, and crazy homeless man style of imitation of Coltrane's aggressive playing.

    One thing I will say for him, he works pretty hard to try to keep himself relevant by constantly recycling his memoirs, first in print and now in film. I read his book, I'll skip this film.

  38. #37

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    yes i think your distaste for crosby is evident to everyone by now..so move on..why continue p...ing all over robs well intentioned post!!!...

    would you be happier if he never posted anything again???

    i wouldnt!!!

    take it easy my beautiful jazzguitar forum friend...we have diverse tastes but lets try to keep it friendly....or at least civil

    theres an old adage..if you have nothing good to say, dont say it

    cheers

  39. #38

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    OK so you're a fan. I used to be. But what are you even talking about? I am civil, Crosby isn't. And critical commentary of historical figures is fair game.

    Crosby's "best friends" won't even speak to him, and I'm guessing you know that, and why it is so. What do they say about him, and in public? Are you ordering them to silence as well?

    But did I bring any of that up before now? No. Thanks for the nudge.

    Crosby is a has been. He can't sell music so he sells sensationalism through his full throttle memoirs. His story is that he screwed up his own life, spent all his money on drugs, carried a loaded .45 in a Dallas bar, assaulted a woman, went to prison, got a new liver, alienated all of his old friends and on and on. And it's nice that he is playing music with his son. A son that he didn't even know existed until he was an adult. His whole story is a train wreck and a self-inflicted one to boot. And yet his public criticism of others continues. I have followed Crosby off and on since 1971. He has always been a very, very self centered person. It's in his songs. It's in this movie - "Remember My Name". Really? Is he asking us or telling us? We'll decide if we will remember his name, and what for. The self-important gall of the man never ceases.

    BTW - the above is based on what David wants me to know about himself, as he peddles his books and movie to me, and you, and everyone else. For the price of admission, of course.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 11-15-2019 at 09:55 AM.

  40. #39

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    BTW - this has nothing to do with Rob. Rob - if you dig Crosby's music that's cool. I have actually performed some of it in public (cringe worthy I'll admit).

    So - what does his closest pal think? lol


  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    He was always the weakest link in terms of songwriting compared to the other three, who were quite strong.
    Disagree strongly. He's as good a writer as any I've heard in his field.

    Do you write? Just curious...

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    OK so you're a fan. I used to be. But what are you even talking about? I am civil, Crosby isn't. And critical commentary of historical figures is fair game.

    Crosby's "best friends" won't even speak to him, and I'm guessing you know that, and why it is so. What do they say about him, and in public? Are you ordering them to silence as well?

    But did I bring any of that up before now? No. Thanks for the nudge.

    Crosby is a has been. He can't sell music so he sells sensationalism through his full throttle memoirs. His story is that he screwed up his own life, spent all his money on drugs, carried a loaded .45 in a Dallas bar, assaulted a woman, went to prison, got a new liver, alienated all of his old friends and on and on. And it's nice that he is playing music with his son. A son that he didn't even know existed until he was an adult. His whole story is a train wreck and a self-inflicted one to boot. And yet his public criticism of others continues. I have followed Crosby off and on since 1971. He has always been a very, very self centered person. It's in his songs. It's in this move "Remember My Name". Really? Is he asking us or telling us? We'll decide if we will remember his name, and what for. The self-important gall of the man never ceases.

    BTW - the above is based on what David wants me to know about himself, as he peddles his books and movie to me, and you, and everyone else. For the price of admission, of course.
    Man, who are you and what do you DO to be talking all that shit?

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by joelf View Post
    Man, who are you and what do you DO to be talking all that shit?
    I already explained. This is the story that David is telling and selling about himself. Read his books. Watch his movie.

    He's selling a hippie era, hippie life tragedy. It works. Nostalgia sells. Tragedy sells. It always has. Just ask the Met Opera.


    One might say - Fat Albert is getting getting kind of old and weird now. You know he's crazy but he ain't real dumb. Oh no.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    I already explained. This is the story that David is telling and selling about himself. Read his books. Watch his movie.

    He's selling a hippie era, hippie life tragedy. It works. Nostalgia sells. Tragedy sells. It always has. Just ask the Met Opera.


    One might say - Fat Albert is getting getting kind of old and weird now. You know he's crazy but he ain't real dumb. Oh no.
    Great answer about who you are and what you do.

    Right. To. Ignore.

  45. #44

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    JoelF - You're getting yourself all worked up over nothing. By the way, did you catch the song reference in my previous post? A coool, baaaaaad song, man. Guessing not. I really liked that song when I was 14. Oh well.

    This is not about me but I was a huge fan of CSNY when I was in eighth grade. To me Crosby seemed like the coolest of the four, as I was an impressionable 13 year-old. Perhaps that was because he was the only American, an LA boy, but I didn't know all of that then. I liked his critically acclaimed solo album "If I could Only Remember My Name". (hence the title to his latest memoir movie). My introduction to them was Four Way Street. The band had already broken up but I didn't care. It was a perfect Vietnam War era hippie album. I mean perfect. Telling us all how to live and think, David's songs about sailing and threesomes, etc.

    CSNY history? Their story is well known by now. Drugs, fights, fights over women, break-ups and reunions. Making Joni Mitchell stay home instead of going to Woodstock, then she writes an imaginary tale about it and THEY make it famous. Reunions in the 70s with stories of David taking up Kung-Fu in order to lose weight, lol. Later stories of Crosby going off the deep end with only a piano left in his mansion, because the rest had gone up his nose. Then it kept going and going until the addict with the Colt .45 in the Dallas bar assaulting a woman and off to prison chapter. I remember it well, as I lived in Dallas at the time. This whole "rest of he band not talking to David" thing has more than one iteration. It's all old news by now. The smartest and coolest guys in the room didn't exactly live like it.

  46. #45

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    Bowl of cereal, pissed in? Check!
    Build bridges, not walls.

  47. #46

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    And I thought my original post was about Trane...

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    And I thought my original post was about Trane...
    Don't you ever ask them why,
    If they told you, you will cry,
    So just look at them and sigh
    Build bridges, not walls.

  49. #48

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    Realistically whether it's Trane or Joe Pass or any of CSNY ... or so many other famous musicians ... the creators of that music we love aren't always someone that's solid and nice.

    Though Pass did an amazing job of coming through the addiction to regain a good life.

    I still love the music.

    Read a piece online by a guy who lived and worked as a young dude near corner of Height and Asbury in the mid 60's. To get free rent he either "managed" or was repair guy, something like that, at an apartment building right "there".

    Over the course of a few years, he met most of the "names" of the SF "love" culture as they either stayed in or visited someone in his old building.

    He wasn't impressed. For all the talk of love and gentleness most of the guys (and he named a lot of names) were really into their own genitalia more than anything else, followed by (preferably) free drugs and booze and then music.

    So it was ok for them mostly ... but the gals were just used and tossed off. So much for "all you need is love". Frequently pregnant and/or addicted to various substances and SOOOO yesterday like, "don't come around here with your sh** no more babe ... Life moves on".

    Or as Nash says in that interview, "I've always followed my heart." Right. Tends to leave mangled people in your wake but whatever.

    The young dudes coming from all over the world to SF could get "admittance" by donating drugs and booze or paying the rent on an apartment. As soon as their money or generosity ran out, they were history also.


    So the '68 Summer of Love was, for that guy who lived there, an amazing time to live through, incredible memories of Major People close at hand ... and very few people he would ever want as friends.

    I've a major operatic bass/baritone friend, has performed as a lead character with from Pavarotti and Domingo through current times. Over 200 performances at the Met alone.

    He says that the operatic world is by its physically demanding nature a bit different as you simply can't abuse drugs and booze and get on stage and keep producing the needed sound.

    So not nearly the "sex drugs and rock and roll" of pop music. But are the people any better humans? They're just ... humans. With all the warts that entails. Some very nice ones. Some his agent is instructed to prefer to avoid if possible for bookings. A very few ... simply ... no.

    It seems to me those driven by something internal hard enough to develop the tools to really stand apart from others ... often have as many if not more ails than anyone else. But maybe get more freedom to indulge that side, and at times even encouragement to do so.

    And therein lies Tragedy. The stories that drive Grand Opera. Humans being all too human.

    Which is why celebrating the best that can be created is good. All good things come from flawed humans. I love me some Trane, the harmonies of CSNY, Wes, so many others.

    I'm grateful that Pass got past his addiction as without that we wouldn't have all those records.

    We saw CSN on the last tour before Crosby spent months courtesy the State of Texas.

    And again on the following tour.

    The earlier one Crosby was there but not ... rocking it. The second, oh my ... a straight Crosby was an amazing performer on stage. Vastly different.

    I remember those performances with joy. For all their glories and sins, I don't think I'd actually want any of the four CSNY as a neighbor.

    Crosby can be a great performer as well as songwriter. That Trane did a glorious job on one of Crosby's best tunes is a joy.

    And that to me is what lasts ... the music that Trane made from Crosby's song. And it is wondrously enough.



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles View Post
    Don't you ever ask them why,
    If they told you, you will cry,
    So just look at them and sigh
    Yep. A Nash song. Probably their most iconic, over the course of history.

  51. #50

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    Given some of the rancor on display here, I have to think Mr. Crosby would feel right at home!